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My VPC-1 arrived :-) #2851760
05/24/19 09:51 AM
05/24/19 09:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 434
Danmark
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Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Morten Olsson  Offline OP
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Danmark
Took delivery of my new DP yesterday - a lovely VPC-1 - this is replacing a Kawai K300 acoustic which I had rented but sadly do not have the funds to purchase at this time in my life.
First impressions is that this thing is very well built - beautiful both to the touch and to the eye.

The action is surprisingly quiet and very smooth and pleasant - it does not feel heavy in any way to me which I know has been the experience for some. Compared to the K300 it bottoms out a bit softer but I wouldn't go so far as to call it mushy. The K300 action felt a bit crisper and more precise but the VPC-1 is definitely acceptable and I really do appreciate how quiet it is - the Roland F140 I used to have was way noisier.

I bought both Ravenscroft 275 and Pianoteq Standard. I have only played for a couple of hours so it's still very early but my initial experience is that Pianoteq nicer to play - it is very responsive and dynamic even if the actual tone is on occasion a bit synthetic.

I think I still want to try out more kinds of speakers to get a feel for how much this changes the experience - I'm thinking I'd like to try hitting both extremes of the spectrum - very large floor standers and small monitors - to see how I like those. In the mean time I'm considering mounting a shelf on the wall to put the speakers on so I can get them a bit higher and move the VPC-1 closer to the wall.

At this time I'm not sure that I prefer the sound and feel from Ravenscroft or Pianoteq to the experience I had with the ES-8 I played quite a bit at the store and the ES-8 would have been quite a bit simpler to setup. Then again it's fun and interesting setting all this stuff up and I think the setup will be quite pleasing once the speakers are mounted better and all the wires have been hidden. The sound and feel of the K300 was way more pleasing but I'm sure I'll get used to this and enjoy it while I save for a real piano :-)

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Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2851767
05/24/19 10:17 AM
05/24/19 10:17 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 331
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Peddler100 Offline

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Nice setup! Congrats.


Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, dabling with PianoTeq
Formerly known as oneilt130
Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2851770
05/24/19 10:33 AM
05/24/19 10:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
J
jamiecw Offline
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jamiecw  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
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UK
Looks very tidy Morten! Nicely done - now you can enjoy practicing/playing the piano.

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2851973
05/25/19 02:16 AM
05/25/19 02:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 648
Celestis
Granyala Offline
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Celestis
Nice setup wink
Wish I had the space to place speakers behind the piano.

Have fun playing!


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2851991
05/25/19 05:17 AM
05/25/19 05:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 166
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Andrew_G Offline
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VPC1 with Ravenscroft-275 is the best sounding and playable setup among all I tried (actually, quite many setups involving expensive plugins and keyboards). The una corda mode of Ravenscroft is so beautiful that I tend to overuse it. All mic combinations work well except when ROOM mics only are applied. I do not use REVERB button at all in order to keep natural sounding of the instrument itself. Various mic combinations provide various renderings of the natural acoustics of this grand. Also, it co-sounds well with most classical orchestra plugins I have.

I succeed, however, to get good results only with headphones. My speakers setup is problematic - probably because of the room acoustics.

I am not sure that your idea of mounting a shelf on the wall to put the speakers on is good: the shelf and the wall may affect the sound. The metallic body of VPC1, placed between you and the monitors, may provide unwanted resonances too.

There exist opinions that placing the monitors in lower positions is better.

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2851992
05/25/19 05:34 AM
05/25/19 05:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 434
Danmark
M
Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Morten Olsson  Offline OP
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Danmark
Only one way to find out smile May also try to move them to either side angled slightly inwards towards me. Will also try the small powered monitors I have laying around.
I could see low upwards angles placement working as well - will have to rig something together to try that.

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Andrew_G] #2852015
05/25/19 07:07 AM
05/25/19 07:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 273
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pold Offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew_G
VPC1 with Ravenscroft-275 is the best sounding and playable setup among all I tried (actually, quite many setups involving expensive plugins and keyboards). The una corda mode of Ravenscroft is so beautiful that I tend to overuse it. All mic combinations work well except when ROOM mics only are applied. I do not use REVERB button at all in order to keep natural sounding of the instrument itself. Various mic combinations provide various renderings of the natural acoustics of this grand. Also, it co-sounds well with most classical orchestra plugins I have.

I succeed, however, to get good results only with headphones. My speakers setup is problematic - probably because of the room acoustics.

I am not sure that your idea of mounting a shelf on the wall to put the speakers on is good: the shelf and the wall may affect the sound. The metallic body of VPC1, placed between you and the monitors, may provide unwanted resonances too.

There exist opinions that placing the monitors in lower positions is better.


I agree with you. Reverb is trying hard to mimic the resonance coming from strings and a wooden soundboard, which is a difficult task for any speaker. So we are left with trying to get the best possible result from the VST settings, have you tried the NI Noire? Regarding speakers, I think the best ones need to be at least 12 inch in diameter. That's the same for guitar amps speakers, if you go below 12", the speakers will sound too boxy.

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2852532
05/26/19 08:28 PM
05/26/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,722
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Online content
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Kawai James  Online Content
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Posts: 15,722
Hamamatsu, Japan
Nice setup Morten - thanks for sharing!

I think it will look even better once you have the cables tidied away completely.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2852615
05/27/19 06:04 AM
05/27/19 06:04 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 434
Danmark
M
Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Danmark
It is a wonderful piano - absolutely love the feel of the thing.
Sound through the Dali speakers feels somewhat disconnected - I had more success with placing an old pair of powered monitors directly on top of the VPC. I’ll either try a decent pair of dedicated active monitors or see if I can find a pair of passive monitors for use with the current setup.
Having the monitors sitting directly on the VPC has the unexpected effect of providing tactile feedback through the keys which really helped provide a feeling of connection more akin to an acoustic.

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2852760
05/27/19 12:07 PM
05/27/19 12:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 9
E
Eric Lee Offline
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Eric Lee  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 9
May I ask- what model of monitors are you using or are wanting to use? Also, which headphones? I'm looking at different options for my Kawai mp11se! See my post on this topic, if you want- http://forum.pianoworld.com//ubbthreads.php/topics/2852579 Thanks!

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2852802
05/27/19 01:25 PM
05/27/19 01:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 434
Danmark
M
Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Morten Olsson  Offline OP
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Posts: 434
Danmark
Current speakers are Dali Ikon 2 mk 2 running off a Nad C356 amp. I’m not really happy with the current setup. I’ll probably experiment a bit with placement and with damping the bass port. If that fails I may try some smaller monitor style passives with the same amp.
The active monitors I tried are a pair of old cheapish MAudio AV 40.
Headphones are Grado SR60 - really great for the price.

I may end up removing the amp / passive speaker setup from the equation and just getting some good active monitors - not really sure yet.

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2852824
05/27/19 03:25 PM
05/27/19 03:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,546
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newer player Online content
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Posts: 1,546
Not Banned
Why waste money, clutter your house and downgrade your speakers?

Try shuffling the speakers & piano around the room. Particular attention to speaker-wall distance, speaker-corner distance, speaker to player distance. Just small changes can make a big difference.

Just move the speakers ~1m from the wall and the corner. Alternatively you might have better luck shifting the piano/speakers so you are facing that dark brown wall.

You might have some luck with a bit of diffusion on the wall behind the speakers. My friends in Danmark like hanging funky 70s shag rugs so that would look fashionable also.

For speaker height, you can put some old textbooks on the speaker stands to get the speakers more in direct line with your ears.

Try stuffing a thick sock in the speaker ports.

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2852862
05/27/19 05:33 PM
05/27/19 05:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 434
Danmark
M
Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Danmark
I will indeed experiment further with placement and bass damping before exploring other speakers smile

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2852882
05/27/19 06:41 PM
05/27/19 06:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 334
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ColoRodney Offline
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+! to putting the speakers a little more to the side and angled towards your head.

In fact, what I'd start with is temporarily moving the keyboard and speakers to the middle of the room (avoiding the exact center), to see how it sounds with no wall behind the speakers and doing what you can to minimize standing acoustic waves. If that helps, you may consider putting some acoustic treatment on that wall or a bass trap in the corner to improve the sound.

My Mackie 828s have a switch on the back that adjusts the bass for installations where they are close to a wall. You could presumably do a similar thing (cutting bass frequencies) using the EQ features of your VST to see if that helps.


Rodney Sauer
Kawai KG-2E • Kawai ES8
Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2853118
05/28/19 11:02 AM
05/28/19 11:02 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 434
Danmark
M
Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Morten Olsson  Offline OP
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Danmark
I have now spent countless hours experimenting with VSTs, speaker placement etc. The experience has been more frustrating and less fun than I had hoped and I miss having less options like with my previous Roland F140 and Kawai K300.
Based on this I have arranged to return the VPC1 in exchange for a Kawai ES8 - I really liked the sound and feel of that and it does what I have found I want - just sit down and play without distractions.

The VPC is a wonderful piece of equipment but not for me.

Not too bad all things considered - I will end up with a DP that I can live with for the time being and a rather nice Hifi system for listening when I’m not playing smile

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2853126
05/28/19 11:17 AM
05/28/19 11:17 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
J
jamiecw Offline
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jamiecw  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
UK
Do you not have a P515?

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2853128
05/28/19 11:29 AM
05/28/19 11:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 434
Danmark
M
Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Morten Olsson  Offline OP
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Danmark
I do not. First piano was a Roland F140, second a Kawai K300 and now very briefly third is VPC1 soon to be replaced with the ES8.

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2853130
05/28/19 11:36 AM
05/28/19 11:36 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,786
Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
... just sit down and play without distractions...


BINGO !!!

Now ….you do not have to develop your "sound engineer" skills in order to get a satisfying result.

Good Decision

Enjoy playing.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2853136
05/28/19 12:03 PM
05/28/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 434
Danmark
M
Morten Olsson Offline OP
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Morten Olsson  Offline OP
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Danmark
What pushed me over the edge was sitting down and playing a beat up old upright this morning while dropping off the youngest. No waffling about which VST to choose, no auditioning different sound curves and no wondering about whether or not I should stuff things with socks smile With the way I am I doubt I would ever be satisfied and forever be optimizing / experimenting - I thought I could just set it up and then forget it but boy was I wrong.
Will take the VPC to the dealer tomorrow morning and bring back an ES8 - I am very very happy with this - the more I think about it the more right it feels.

Re: My VPC-1 arrived :-) [Re: Morten Olsson] #2853163
05/28/19 01:38 PM
05/28/19 01:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,877
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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peterws  Offline
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Northern England.
Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
I have now spent countless hours experimenting with VSTs, speaker placement etc. The experience has been more frustrating and less fun than I had hoped and I miss having less options like with my previous Roland F140 and Kawai K300.
Based on this I have arranged to return the VPC1 in exchange for a Kawai ES8 - I really liked the sound and feel of that and it does what I have found I want - just sit down and play without distractions.

The VPC is a wonderful piece of equipment but not for me.

Not too bad all things considered - I will end up with a DP that I can live with for the time being and a rather nice Hifi system for listening when I’m not playing smile


I can agree greatly with all of this. But I have had fun playing around with the different pianos, and if I got a straightforward DP again, I'd miss all this bother . . . ! I'd hate to do that and regret it. I have an acoustic type sound (imo ha ha); that is, all the annoyances of an acoustic piano, those things which would almost put you off playing one (strange notes, uneven response, tone, volume gradient etc etc are there!
Must admit I'd like a VPC-2 but I like the forward wall facing speakers of the FP50 in the mix with my external speaker system.

Last edited by peterws; 05/28/19 01:41 PM.

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