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Pianoteq- system requirements
#2851297 05/23/19 12:38 AM
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I was wondering if I should create new topic but I figured if someone else will want to find this it will be much easier.
About system requirements of Pianoteq. I know Pianoteq lists very low system reqirements, even recommended but I read that for example version 6.0 increased them(even if pianoteq didn't change them on their website). So my core question is: what are REAL system reqirements of Pianoteq? I mean what would allow me to use it with lowest latency, high/highest settings and polyphony? I'm asking because I consider buying used laptop for Pianoteq only. I understand that most important thing for this is CPU. So 4 core i7 for example? Maybe i5 would be enough? What generation and frequency?
What about sound output in laptops, no problem there? I'm having quite a lot of distortions when I connect my desktop PC to my CA98. I wonder if it's cables problem or integrated soundcard?
Any other things to watch out for? I want it to work as perfectly as it can without extending costs(obviously).

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851304 05/23/19 01:45 AM
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I'm running it on a 2012 dual core i5 on windows without any problems. I don't have super low latency though. Still, it feels the same as when I use a 2018 6-core MacBook Pro.

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851307 05/23/19 01:52 AM
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#1 CPU
The two important specs are a. CPU generation and b. speed. Generally pick the highest generation of CPU and then pick the highest speed within that generation you can get. It may turn out that a newer CPU running at a low speed, outruns an older CPU running at double the speed. Also - desktop CPUs will outperform the equivalent mobile CPUs.

For reference, Intel is currently in their 9th or 10th generation CPUs and I’m happily running Pianoteq on a 4th and a 5th generation i5 mobile CPUs running at the lowly speed of 1.6 and 1.8 Ghz. I’m not running maxxed out, but all the default bells and whistle are all on.

#2 Audio
The quality of the audio chip in a laptop can be a gamble. Generally Macs have good audio. Generic laptops should researched, but there are always external audio interfaces for better sound. For reference, I can’t detect a difference between the sound from my MacBook Airs and my external audio interface until I hook them up to large PA speakers.


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Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851321 05/23/19 03:32 AM
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I'm running it without issues under Linux on an old desktop PC with the Intel Core 2 Duo processor. I believe any core i5 would be much faster.


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Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851323 05/23/19 03:41 AM
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No worries. Pianoteq runs on just about anything.
Originally Posted by Nordomus
What are REAL system reqirements of Pianoteq?
The class (i5, i7) is meaningless. They make chips that run the entire range of speed.
Generation is likewise meaningless.
Only the exact chip number gives you any meaningful information.

A Ford Mustang is faster than a Chevy Volt, right?
But a Ford van is slower than an Chevy Corvette, yes?
So which is faster, a Ford or a Chevy?
Without knowing the model no conclusion can be reached.

But its all a moot point because Pianoteq runs on anything, even older laptops.

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
MacMacMac #2851329 05/23/19 04:21 AM
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Not a moot point, says the thick'ster. No good it "running" if it runs with snaps, crackles and pops, is it.
I had a decent laptop recommended to me, works lovely at no more than 20% capacity, no glitches: HP Elitebook 8460p, Core i5. Not a super late unit, but works great, bench passmark 3781 (sufficient for Pianoteq).

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
MacMacMac #2851336 05/23/19 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac

But its all a moot point because Pianoteq runs on anything, even older laptops.

The problem is it doesn't, at least not at full performance and without glitches. Also we have to define "older" smile

Originally Posted by thickfingers
Not a moot point, says the thick'ster. No good it "running" if it runs with snaps, crackles and pops, is it.
I had a decent laptop recommended to me, works lovely at no more than 20% capacity, no glitches: HP Elitebook 8460p, Core i5. Not a super late unit, but works great, bench passmark 3781 (sufficient for Pianoteq).


passmark might be good point in this because it's kind of true that i5, i7 doesn't really mean that much because there are so many variations of them. I'd be grateful if you could post your precise CPU models so I can build up some reference. If CPU with passmark 3781 works perfectly fine then I would guess audio issue might bigger one.

Last edited by Nordomus; 05/23/19 05:13 AM.
Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851339 05/23/19 05:27 AM
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I had Pianoteq running on a 2005-era laptop with an Intel Core2 Duo T5300 @ 2.73GHz
(Even Fred Flintstone had a better computer.)
It ran perfectly with very low latency and no glitches.

That's the only thing I like about Pianoteq.
Click to install and it runs flawlessly, even on stone-age hardware.

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851359 05/23/19 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
passmark might be good point in this ...

These are my two CPUs:
Intel Core i5-4250U @ 1.3Ghz (4th gen)
Intel Core i5-5250U @ 1.6Ghz (5th gen)
Passmark rating of around 3500 = Pianoteq Performance Index of 50-115. I can turn on all settings with very minor occasional glitches. Otherwise, I use the basic default values with no glitching (Sample Rate of 48000Hz, Buffer = 64 Samples 1.3ms, Polyphony = Auto Optimistic)

There's an interesting benchmark thread on the Pianoteq website. Basically you just have to get a Pianoteq Performance Index of 30 to turn on default values = spitball estimate is Passmark rating of 2500).
https://www.forum-pianoteq.com/viewtopic.php?id=4149



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Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
MacMacMac #2851360 05/23/19 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Generation is likewise meaningless.

But it is important if you're shopping for used laptops and run into similarly labeled CPUs.

For example:
i3-7100 3.9 Ghz (7th gen) = Passmark 5784
i3-8100 3.6 Ghz (8th gen) = Passmark 8044

Big jump in generational performance even if it's clocked at a slower speed.


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Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
thickfingers #2851361 05/23/19 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by thickfingers
Not a moot point, says the thick'ster. No good it "running" if it runs with snaps, crackles and pops, is it.


I've experienced these issues only on sample based VSTs.


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Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Groove On #2851372 05/23/19 08:07 AM
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Yes, generation X is often faster than generation X-1 ... except when it's not:
Code
i3-6300T . . 5245 . . 6th-gen faster than 7th gen
i3-7020U . . 3664

i3-5157U . . 3668 . . 5th-gen faster than 6th gen
i3-6006U . . 3109

i3-4570T . . 4934 . . 4th-gen faster than 5th gen
i3-5157U . . 3668
You can pick through the lists and find many examples ... going both ways.
So ... I maintain that the model and its speed rating matter. The generation and clock don't help.
Originally Posted by Groove On
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Generation is likewise meaningless.
But it is important if you're shopping for used laptops and run into similarly labeled CPUs.
i3-7100 3.9 Ghz (7th gen) = Passmark 5784
i3-8100 3.6 Ghz (8th gen) = Passmark 8044
Big jump in generational performance even if it's clocked at a slower speed.

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
MacMacMac #2851396 05/23/19 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, generation X is often faster than generation X-1 ... except when it's not:
Code
i3-6300T . . 5245 . . 6th-gen faster than 7th gen
i3-7020U . . 3664

i3-5157U . . 3668 . . 5th-gen faster than 6th gen
i3-6006U . . 3109

i3-4570T . . 4934 . . 4th-gen faster than 5th gen
i3-5157U . . 3668
You can pick through the lists and find many examples ... going both ways.
So ... I maintain that the model and its speed rating matter. The generation and clock don't help.

Yes, as you are alluding to, there are so many other factors involved in overall performance, like number of cores, clock speeds, available instruction sets, etc. etc.

Unless the N1X keeps me happy long-term with its sound, I do have an intention of building an very fast piano-dedicated small form factor PC for VSTs. This project may go by the wayside as it will be pointless if I find the N1X meets all my needs/desires with respect to sound.


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Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851408 05/23/19 09:53 AM
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I really hope the N1X is "good enough" ... and much more.

I only use virtual instruments because the sound from my Clav stinks.
But a piano costing 3x or 4x as much ought not need a VST ... I hope.
Especially because I intend to buy such in the not-too-distant future ... either an N1X or a Novus.

I keen to read what you have to say about the AG when you get it.

And include a photo.
Not the piano's picture ... we've all seen the N1X.
I'm thinking of a photo of YOU ... with a big grin celebrating the move from an el-cheapo board to your new piano maximo. smile

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
MacMacMac #2851416 05/23/19 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Yes, generation X is often faster than generation X-1 ... except when it's not:
Code
i3-6300T . . 5245 . . 6th-gen faster than 7th gen
i3-7020U . . 3664

i3-5157U . . 3668 . . 5th-gen faster than 6th gen
i3-6006U . . 3109

i3-4570T . . 4934 . . 4th-gen faster than 5th gen
i3-5157U . . 3668

Mac, you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that whatever CPU model you pick, get the highest generation possible even if the speed is lower than the previous generation.

In that light, the comparison you posted above makes no sense; it compares completely different models across generations; and it even compares the T and U processors which are designed for a different level of performance. Whatever that comparison was supposed to be; that's not what I was suggesting.


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Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851438 05/23/19 11:04 AM
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OP said he plans to buy a used laptop. So he'll face offerings from multiple generations.

He won't be buying a CPU from a catalog of parts. He won't be buying a generation. And he won't be buying GHz.

Instead, he'll be buying whatever he can find on the market.within budget. And he wants to know what will give adequate performance.

Look for GHz? No.
Look for generation? No.

Just look at the CPU model and it's spec mark. (And unless it's truly ancient it won't matter much.)

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851445 05/23/19 11:23 AM
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So the new Mac Mini (Quad-Core @3.6 GHz) is more than enough to run Pianoteq at full throttle?
I believe this is an eighth generation CPU. There’s no ‘Turbo boost nor Hyper-threading’, but my understanding is that Pianoteq will work fine even on a dual core as long as the clock speed is high ‘enough’ (In this case 3.6 GHz).
It seems like Modartt does not state required and recommend CPU speeds. They simply indicate that ‘a modern laptop with a dual-core’ is fine. I believe they should be a little more specific than this.

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851532 05/23/19 04:06 PM
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I use Pianoteq on an old iMac 2007 without problem.



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Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
Nordomus #2851542 05/23/19 04:43 PM
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My MacBook Pro 2007 Core2Duo was just a little short of power for PianoTeq. PianoTeq worked but there were some dropouts.

Over time, some processes are optimized, migrate to hardware. So I would say 12 year old laptops are not sufficient. A five year old laptop probably doesn't cost much more on the used market lol.

I linked some discussion from the GS forums on off-lease corporate laptops that some pro audio guys recommended. ThickFingers picked up one. Search for that thread for more ideas.

As Windoze 7 loses support soon, you should choose either Win10, OSX, or Linux.

Re: Pianoteq- system requirements
MacMacMac #2851552 05/23/19 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I really hope the N1X is "good enough" ... and much more.

I only use virtual instruments because the sound from my Clav stinks.
But a piano costing 3x or 4x as much ought not need a VST ... I hope.
Especially because I intend to buy such in the not-too-distant future ... either an N1X or a Novus.



I would contend that an expensive DP such as you mention may well sound little better if at all, than a cheapie except through it's own speakers.
Postings over a period of time on AB forum recitals would seem to bear this out in many cases (IMO); take a listen to some of the recordings and see what you think!


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