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Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
#2851127 05/22/19 11:45 AM
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Hi Guys,

If I have to get a cheap first digital piano for my child is yamaha YDP 223 worth $400 a good choice? The condition is very good. I am looking to get him a new piano later if his interest is sustained.

I know some may say to get a Casio or a Kawai but the state i live in has no service centers for both. I guess Casio at least charges for shipping even for in-warranty items (that's what their service department told me. I was surprised).

Thanks

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Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851134 05/22/19 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by tiger015
If I have to get a cheap first digital piano for my child is yamaha YDP 223 worth $400 a good choice? The condition is very good. I am looking to get him a new piano later if his interest is sustained.

You do realize this model has been out for over a decade, right? It's GHE action is no match for modern digital keyboard actions. Is your son going to be learning classical piano? He'd be better off if you bought him something more modern like a Casio PX-S1000, Roland FP-10, Yamaha P45/P71, or Kawai ES110.


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Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
Tyrone Slothrop #2851146 05/22/19 12:15 PM
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Thanks very much. I did not know the key action is so primitive. Out of FP10 and P45 which one is better in terms of key action, and overall?

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851148 05/22/19 12:18 PM
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1. Which brands have service centers in your state?
2. What is their warranty policy as well as coverage period? Do they only cover the electronics or the action as well?
3. How important is warranty to you if things go bad after 15-30 days of buying a new instrument (assuming you can return it to the dealer within that period)? For e.g. the YDP223 is 10-12 years old. If it goes bad a few weeks after the purchase, what were you planning to do with it?

These are all practical issues that need to be considered beyond things like the action and sound.

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
kj85 #2851150 05/22/19 12:24 PM
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Thanks, yes these are very important questions. My state has Roland, Korg and Yamaha service centers for sure. Casio does not have.

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851153 05/22/19 12:29 PM
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I wouldn't have wanted a YDP223 back when it was introduced in the early 2000s. It has a poor action, and it has only one level of sampling, which makes expressiveness next to impossible.
Originally Posted by tiger015
If I have to get a cheap first digital piano for my child is yamaha YDP 223 worth $400 a good choice? The condition is very good. I am looking to get him a new piano later if his interest is sustained.
For $400 you can buy a much newer, better used piano.

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851190 05/22/19 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger015
Thanks very much. I did not know the key action is so primitive. Out of FP10 and P45 which one is better in terms of key action, and overall?

I currently have an FP30 myself (will be upgrading to another DP on Friday) which has the same PHA-4 action as the FP10. I personally think this action is better than the GHS in the P45.

However, the problem is that the FP10 does not support half-pedaling. This would be a problem for Chopin, just as an example. But it's possible in 5 years of piano lessons as a child, your son will only be getting to Chopin by the end of this period. He might not need half-pedaling by the time an upgrade to an acoustic is in the works.

A safer pick might be the P45 which does support half-pedaling, but only when using the Yamaha FC3A pedals (the cheaper Yamaha pedal also doesn't support half-pedaling). Amazon.com has a special, Amazon-only version of the P45 called the Yamaha P71. This only has minor differences from the P45, and sometimes is cheaper than the P45. I believe on the P71, you also need the FC3A to half-pedal, but you should check this yourself.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
Tyrone Slothrop #2851202 05/22/19 02:34 PM
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Thanks! But if one include a DP 10 does not it support half pedaling? This site says so: https://www.pianodreamers.com/roland-fp10-review/

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851209 05/22/19 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by tiger015
Thanks! But if one include a DP 10 does not it support half pedaling? This site says so: https://www.pianodreamers.com/roland-fp10-review/

Oh! Well that changes things. You could get a DP-10 foot pedal then in a few years when your son is ready for half-pedaling.

In this case, I think FP-10 is better since the keyboard action is a bit better in my opinion for classical piano than the P45/P71. For example, the escapement of a grand piano is simulated on the PHA-4 action.


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across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851214 05/22/19 03:16 PM
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Thanks! I think I am settled for FP10. Down the years, I would get a good acoustic or a digital.

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851215 05/22/19 03:20 PM
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Thanks! I think I am settled for FP10. Down the years, I would get a good acoustic or a digital.

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851218 05/22/19 03:28 PM
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Best to check the Roland site itself, I would say, for half-pedal capacity info for the FP10. FP30 (mine) does support it but it has no mention of it whatsoever in the manual. Look for mention of pedal "continuous detection".

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
thickfingers #2851227 05/22/19 04:18 PM
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No mention in the manual either for FP 10. Except that it states DP10 is compatible which certainly supports half pedaling.

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851269 05/22/19 07:59 PM
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Roland DP-10 has a switch that toggles between switch (on/off) and continuous mode.
So supporting DP-10 does not automatically mean the piano itself supports half-pedalling.

However, if your child is a young beginner, it would be at least several years before a damper pedal is needed. And quite a very long time before half-pedalling is really required.
If you are planning to upgrade when you're sure that your child wants to continue the lesson (let's say in 3 years), you may skip this requirement and get the one within your budget.

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
siros #2851330 05/23/19 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by siros
Roland DP-10 has a switch that toggles between switch (on/off) and continuous mode.
So supporting DP-10 does not automatically mean the piano itself supports it.

Yep. I have the DP10. Made sure the piano supported half-pedal before I bought it, though.
"Compatible" might just mean "works with (on/off mode)".

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
thickfingers #2851349 05/23/19 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by thickfingers
Originally Posted by siros
Roland DP-10 has a switch that toggles between switch (on/off) and continuous mode.
So supporting DP-10 does not automatically mean the piano itself supports it.

Yep. I have the DP10. Made sure the piano supported half-pedal before I bought it, though.
"Compatible" might just mean "works with (on/off mode)".

I went back and looked again at the review that Tiger015 linked, above. It says:
Quote
You can actually use any damper pedal with a standard jack, but unlike third-party pedals, the Roland DP-10 also supports half-pedaling.

This doesn't actually say that the FP10 uses the half-pedaling of the DP-10 or that the reviewer tested this. The FP-10 manual also doesn't shed light on this although it shows a 3 contact plug.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
Tyrone Slothrop #2851353 05/23/19 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The FP-10 manual also doesn't shed light on this although it shows a 3 contact plug.


The Roland FP-10 page says:

Quote
The FP-10’s PHA-4 Standard keyboard delivers the responsive feel of a fine acoustic piano, with every nuance whether you play hard or soft captured by Roland’s touch-detection technology. With high-resolution sensing and escapement for fast key repetition, the PHA-4 keyboard faithfully translates into sound the subtlest differences in dynamics and tone. The attention to detail continues as you notice a heavier hammer-weight in the low registers and a lighter one in the highs. Touch the white keys and you’ll be convinced by a revolutionary moisture-absorbing material that recreates the natural texture and tactile feel of real ivory – and for expressive pedaling techniques such as half-pedaling, simply connect the optional DP-10 pedal.


The information is repeated in the specs:

Quote
Pedals:
Damper (capable of half pedal when optional pedal connected)
Optional pedal DP-10 (capable of half pedal)


So, unless some one has seriously screwed up while writing up the features and specs, it looks like the FP-10 does support half-pedaling.

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851378 05/23/19 07:14 AM
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Does half-pedal really matter for a rank beginner ... playing on the most basic keyboard available?

Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
MacMacMac #2851391 05/23/19 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Does half-pedal really matter for a rank beginner ... playing on the most basic keyboard available?

My piano teacher says it matters when you start Chopin. I'm not sure when a child beginner typically starts Chopin, but as an adult, I'm just over 15 months into my piano journey and my piano teacher says I will be starting Chopin in the next 12 months. (This topic came up as part of a discussion about half-pedaling on the N1X and NV10.) 27 months would be within the 5-year window that the OP is estimating for an acoustical piano purchase.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Used piano Yamaha YDP 223: $400 worth it?
tiger015 #2851433 05/23/19 09:42 AM
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Thanks for this valuable input


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