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Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: CyberGene] #2850845 05/21/19 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I just thought of another possible heuristics. The fact is: when you push the hammer, it’s heavy and would limit the maximum velocity you can achieve due to inertia. However when the key has not been released fully, hence the jack hasn't reengaged the hammer, key is light and you can easily accelerate it to produce high, or what’s more important: HIGHER terminal velocity, hence the loud note issue. The software would always produce a MIDI value of 127 if the velocity is higher than some value. But actually you can measure what’s a reasonable max velocity with hammer and then introduce a new check for velocities exceeding that. Previously it would produce 127 but now it would see what was the last value for that key and repeat it. Not very consistent but still better than blasting a full 127 strike. There might be another additional check if that event happened shortly after the same key has been released because that’s when loud note issue happens: on repetition, never on first strike.

There’s a lot of statistical analysis that could be done by Yamaha to determine when the issue happens and then go to use that data to predict it and alleviate it. It’s only odd that they introduced it after so much time.


I wonder what the latency cost is of introducing these types of fixes. IIRC all of these DPs go to great lengths (e.g., high-speed ASICs) to dramatically reduce the time it takes from sensing to sounding. A new check may not be all that computationally intensive, but a bunch of new if/then conditions (Did a note strike with a certain velocity? Did it strike with a lower velocity x ms earlier? Etc.) may start pushing the design specs? I doubt it would break anything in this case, but I would imagine any maker would be very careful about introducing changes that affect the perception of real-time response (particularly if it also reduces headroom for other changes/features that may need to be added in the future). That could be why Yamaha sat on this for years without quickly pushing out a fix (or fixing the issue in the NU1X).


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Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850852 05/21/19 05:18 PM
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Layman walking: could any further tweaking/regulation of the action help with the issue? Of course, this would be implemented on units leaving the factory now. Existing owners could probably get the ‘regulation’ per request.
Right now it seems like we’re split as to whether the issue was completely eradicated or simply masked/diminished. At least one member believes that it’s still there but not as ‘loud/often’ as before.

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Peddler100] #2850860 05/21/19 05:38 PM
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Oh no thank you so much.
I actually found out about the issue through this forum in the first place. Then when I was looking in showroom I asked the sales person and he said the new software update fixes that. Came home saw the update ion Yamaha site then I joined this site to ask you guys.
I was curious that no one noticed the update but I guess it’s not usual for piano makers to do updates. I am use to it with camera manufacturers.
Thank you so much for testing this and helping me make a decision. It’s been a great help.
I think what I’m hearing is if the Nu1x came with the current update loaded the piano would have been way better received and consider to be an excellent option as a k200 replacement?
Thank you so much oneilt130!
I am still waiting for the other testers before I bite.

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Peddler100] #2850871 05/21/19 06:38 PM
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I just read your thread. Its so great you were going through same process as me. I will be back a the dealer soon and compared 685 and nu1x again. But I keep hearing g Nu1x is the better choice. For sure I prefer the way it feels.
I’m curious Oneilt. Did you try the Kawai CA98 or cs11. They get such good reviews but they just felt like a fake action to me. In their defence I think Im just use to an upright action.
I’m also just wondering how much our brains perceive feel into sound. That is if we sit at a dp that feels way better or like a real piano that we include that into how the piano sounds. It all works together to create a whole. If we sit at an action that is not as good or does not feel as good but is in a better sounding cabinet then we don’t like it. The human brain is easily tricked.
Perception is everything. That’s why at the end of the day we go with the heart. Knowing I’m spending a lot for a piano that is not defective means a lot to me though. So thank so much for doing the tests. Wow that’s great.
Also anyone out there have any long term reports of living with durability of Nu1x or even the previous Nu1. Does it have to be regulated after a while like an acoustic. Sorry if that’s a dumb question.
It’s all just new to me.
Thank you everyone.

Last edited by Chantel; 05/21/19 06:43 PM.
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850877 05/21/19 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Chantel
I just read your thread. It so great you were going through same process as me. I will be back a the dealer soon ams compared 685 ams nu1x again. But I keep hearing g Nu1x is the better choice. For sure I prefer the way it feels.
I’m curious Oneilt. Did you try the Kawai CA98 or cs11. They get such good reviews but they just felt like a fake action to me. In their defence I think Im just use to an upright action.
I’m also just wondering how much our brains perceive feel into sound. That is if we sit at a dp that feels way better or like a real piano that we include that into how the piano sounds. It all works together to create a whole. If we sit at an action that is not as good or does not feel as good but is in a better sounding cabinet then we don’t like it. The human brain is easily tricked.
Perception is everything. That’s why at the end of the day we go with the heart. Knowing I’m spending a lot for a piano that is not defective means a lot to me though. So thank so much for do8 g the tests. Wow that’s great.
Also anyone out there any long term reports of living with durability of Nu1x or even the previous Nu1. Does it have to be regulated after a while like an acoustic. Sorry if that’s a dumb question.
It’s all just new to me.
Thank you everyone.


I tried the CA78/98 and there was just something about the sound that I didn't care for. It wasn't bad and it could be related to my having tinnitus but it just didn't sound as good. If you hang out here long enough you will see the endless debates on what tech or DP sounds better or worse. I think they have the same "discussions" in the acoustic piano forum as well. You need to get what sounds best to you. Also I didn't care for the touch screen interface. I am probably one of the only people here who will praise the simplicity of the NU1X interface. I play it pretty much with the defaults and use the Smart Pianist app for any adjustments and recordings so I like that the controls don't get in the way.

BTW I also tested the Roland LX708 and checked into the MPSE11 and other slab options thinking of building the Franken DP. When I first started looking I went to a Yamaha dealer outside of Philly to check out the CLP685. The dealer let me play it by myself and after 5 minutes I wasn't thrilled. When I was getting ready to walk out the sales person asked what I thought and I told him. He then directed me to the NU1X. I liked it a lot and was able to jump between that and the acoustic U1. The NU1X felt very close to an acoustic upright and sounded great on pianos. But based on the specs I spent probably the better part of 6 months trying to convince myself not to get the NU1X even though every time I tried it out it was the one that made me the happiest.

In the end I bought the NU1X knowing fully informed about the loud note issue and never regretted the choice I made. It is a joy to play.


Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, dabling with PianoTeq
Formerly known as oneilt130
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Peddler100] #2850882 05/21/19 07:36 PM
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Thank you. That inspires so much confidence in me choosing the Nu1x. For your interest when I was at the dealer another sales person who did not know what I was looking at, and I agreed with him 100%, said the Nu1x Rhodes sound sounded the best through the Nu1x Than other dp in their store. I heard it rightaway when I played it. I get most folks here play piano so wonderfully they probable don’t play the Rhodes sound but I do and it was clearly better on the Nu1x. I will look into the Smart pianist app as I don’t know anything about it. I do like simplicity and am aware of the bells and whistles trap. 98% of the 685 features I would not use. Splitting a keyboard has it’s appeal to me but certainly not of the expenses of a proper feeling action.
When you have the time what features in the smart pianist app improve the Nu1x. Is it mostly for recordings?
Thank you so much again. You have been a great help!

Last edited by Chantel; 05/21/19 07:37 PM.
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850892 05/21/19 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Chantel
Thank you. That inspires so much confidence in me choosing the Nu1x. For your interest when I was at the dealer another sales person who did not know what I was looking at, and I agreed with him 100%, said the Nu1x Rhodes sound sounded the best through the Nu1x Than other dp in their store. I heard it rightaway when I played it. I get most folks here play piano so wonderfully they probable don’t play the Rhodes sound but I do and it was clearly better on the Nu1x. I will look into the Smart pianist app as I don’t know anything about it. I do like simplicity and am aware of the bells and whistles trap. 98% of the 685 features I would not use. Splitting a keyboard has it’s appeal to me but certainly not of the expenses of a proper feeling action.
When you have the time what features in the smart pianist app improve the Nu1x. Is it mostly for recordings?
Thank you so much again. You have been a great help!


I primarily use the Smart Pianist app for recordings and the metronome. (I really like the bell sound that it uses for measures. Can't find an app that does it yet.) On occasion I use it to play with some of the sounds but not that much. Even for recordings if I just want to play back something to critique it myself I use the controls on the NU1X. One button starts recording what you are playing. Great for quick feedback. I use the app when I want to do something else with the recording. You can upload to drop box right in the app. I find that easier than using a thumb drive to transfer files to the computer.


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Formerly known as oneilt130
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Peddler100] #2850896 05/21/19 08:29 PM
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Thank you!
I’m glad we all found out about the software update.
Piano world is a great site and you have been so kind and helpful.

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850967 05/22/19 03:23 AM
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The white one is out of stock everywhere here frown

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850971 05/22/19 03:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Chantel
That inspires so much confidence in me choosing the Nu1x.


NU1X is love, NU1X is life! Get it and be happy. I've never regretted my decision after my trip over several highend DPs. wink

Last edited by Tyr; 05/22/19 03:49 AM.

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Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850974 05/22/19 03:51 AM
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I will install the software shortly and report back. I typically have heard the "loud note" issue at least once or twice during my playing: let's see if it works!

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850981 05/22/19 04:32 AM
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Ok so, admittedly I haven't played as long as I usually do, but despite all of my attempts to re-create the "loud note" issue, I just could NOT! thumb

I'm hoping this is the fix we've all been waiting for. I have to get ready for work (and then my lesson this evening), so I will have to use it a bit more to really see. Stay tuned!

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2851002 05/22/19 06:32 AM
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Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken.
Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem?
The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Pete14] #2851004 05/22/19 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken.
Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem?
The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.

I feel your annoyance! But let's think of it this way. Acoustical upright actions don't allow key repetition at a frequency higher than 7 Hz apparently due to mechanical limitations. So one manufacturer added magnets to the action and another added springs, both intended to allow faster key repetition. Were these manufacturers fixing something that was broken? Or did they make an "improvement in playability?"


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2851005 05/22/19 06:42 AM
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If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.

But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.


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Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Pete14] #2851034 05/22/19 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.

But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.


Originally Posted by Pete14
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken.
Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem?
The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.

Call my cynical but I am not that concerned with the why Yamaha come out with the fix now or what their statements were in the past. I view most corporations as amoral sharks working in what they perceive to be their short term or long term best interests. I may not agree with their perceptions or directions but I don't think they expend resources on things like updates for virtuous reasons. I think Yamaha thought that the cost of the firmware update would be more than offset by an increase in sales or reduction in returns/service calls. Nothing more and nothing less. If they couldn't attach some perceived return on investment to the fix they probably wouldn't have done it.

All I care about is that they have taken a DP that I really liked and made it even better. (And it does reduce my N1X envy a little bit. smile )

So now that this issue that has it's own somewhat long thread appears to be resolved I think it's time to start a NU1X love fest thread like the N1X thread. The first topic should be the pros and cons of different waxes and polishing compounds. We need to let others know that we are just as obsessed with the gloss of our pianos as they are. smile


Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, dabling with PianoTeq
Formerly known as oneilt130
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Peddler100] #2851036 05/22/19 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by oneilt130
Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.

But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.


Originally Posted by Pete14
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken.
Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem?
The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.

Call my cynical but I am not that concerned with the why Yamaha come out with the fix now or what their statements were in the past. I view most corporations as amoral sharks working in what they perceive to be their short term or long term best interests. I may not agree with their perceptions or directions but I don't think they expend resources on things like updates for virtuous reasons. I think Yamaha thought that the cost of the firmware update would be more than offset by an increase in sales or reduction in returns/service calls. Nothing more and nothing less. If they couldn't attach some perceived return on investment to the fix they probably wouldn't have done it.

All I care about is that they have taken a DP that I really liked and made it even better. (And it does reduce my N1X envy a little bit. smile )

So now that this issue that has it's own somewhat long thread appears to be resolved I think it's time to start a NU1X love fest thread like the N1X thread. The first topic should be the pros and cons of different waxes and polishing compounds. We need to let others know that we are just as obsessed with the gloss of our pianos as they are. smile


Hahahaha marvelous last part

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Peddler100] #2851037 05/22/19 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by oneilt130
The first topic should be the pros and cons of different waxes and polishing compounds. We need to let others know that we are just as obsessed with the gloss of our pianos as they are. smile

And the electrostatic/anti-static properties of the plastics comprising them! wink


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2851090 05/22/19 10:25 AM
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I’ve applied the patch, and so far it seems to be an improvement. I was playing a passage where I could physically feel the keys in a no-resistance state, and the result was not an out of character loud note. I have tried anything rigorous, just playing as usual.

What’s most surprising to me is that, despite having my instrument registrations made online with my email address, and despite my signing up for various mailing lists for any announcements by Yamaha, there was no proactive messaging around this. Had I not been participating in this forum, I doubt I’d have discovered the update for another 6 months.

All of that said, an instrument I already loved got better!


Current: Yamaha NU1X, Pianoteq, Ravenscroft 275 iOS
Past: Yamaha CP4, CME UF8, Roland A80, Roland MK80, Yamaha P22 upright
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2851110 05/22/19 11:07 AM
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Indeed, that came as a surprise, first of all because Yamaha release new firmware updates once a century, and then because that wasn't communicated in any possible way. It's a shame an important update like that is currently discussed only here. I actually checked whether there's an update for N1X too because, you know... why not smile Maybe it's not just the loud note issue but a better interpretation of key sensors? Reminds me why I have ignored Yamaha for such a long time smile


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