My neighbor has asked me to help decide on a digital grand piano (and yes, she's insistent she wants a grand cabinet). She used to be an intermediate-advanced pianist but let it fall by the wayside due to raising little ones... she wants to get back into it and possibly get her kids into some lessons.

I recently acquired my Yamaha N3X (which I absolutely love) but that's out of her budget. She can spring for the CLP-665, possibly even the CLP-695 if she pushes it. Bottom line: is the extra premium for the CLP-695GP worth it over the CLP-665GP?

The obvious advantages for the CLP-695 I see are:
- Much better speaker system (she lives in a house, not apartment)
- Far more powerful speaker system with spruce cone speakers
- 480 XG voices (not sure how often she'd use these)
- Grand Touch action with wooden keys, counterweights, linear graded hammers (some argue this action is too heavy vs GH3X on CLP-665?)
- Far better looking (subjective I know, but most would agree)

The potential advantages I see for the CLP-665 are:
- Much cheaper (about $2-3K less)
- Smaller cabinet is much easier to accommodate
- Some say the GH3X action is easier on the fingers than the Grand Touch...?

Anything I'm missing, here? I have personal experience playing the CLP-665 but not the CLP-695. Anyone own either of these pianos want to chime in here? I'd greatly appreciate it.

For many generations of the Clavinovas there has been a CLP-x65 and CLP-x95.

In general the x65 has been equivalent to the cheapest Clav CLP-x2x or CLP-x3x of that generation ... in a mini-grand cabinet.
The x95 has been the equivalent of the top-end Clav CLP-x8x of that generation ... in a mini-grand-cabinet.

Buy the x65 if you really like the cabinet. But you can spend a mere $2000 or so for the same piano guts in a plain console cabinet. So IMO the x65 is a waste of cash. There are scads of better pianos for MUCH less money.

Buy x96 if you like the cabinet AND you want the best Clavinova in the line.

Considering her experience (intermediate-advanced at one point) and the fact that she lives in a house, I would suggest that she buy an acoustic grand, unless she needs the silent practice capability of a digital with headphones. I just did this, having considered various Clavinovas along the way.

See my story here:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...stic-couldn-t-decide-so.html#Post2845043

If set on a grand cabinet Clavinova, I suggest that she try out the two alternatives several times. As an intermediate-advanced player, even if it was a while ago, she would easily feel the difference in touch between GH3X and GrandTouch. There are many who don't like GrandTouch but I quite did, though Kawai's Grand Feel II (no grand cabinet options) was far superior.

I valued the 480 XG voices of the CLP-685/695 because I sometimes use MIDI files for orchestral accompaniment while I play the lead piano (or other voice). But in the end, I kept my Yamaha DGX-660 with its 554 voices (some of which are far better than XG voices) and added a Kawai acoustic grand.

The speakers/sound difference between the CLP-695 and CLP-665 should be easily noticeable.

There is a big difference in the way Yamaha approached the AvantGrand line. Most would agree that your N3X has significantly better speakers and sound, and touch with its Ivorite keys and TRS, vs. the N1X, for example. Similarly, the N2 is better than the N1.

That is not the case with the "grand piano" Clavinovas, the CLP-665 being a CLP-635 in a grand cabinet and the CLP-695 a CLP-685 in a grand cabinet, at significantly higher prices. Yes, the CLP-645 is better than the CLP-665! For that reason, I never considered the CLP-665/695 in my long and arduous search for the right piano.

Thanks all for the great feedback. I actually agree with the acoustic grand sentiment but I forgot to share that she has the same dilemma I did: a small living room. She wouldn't be able to fit anything larger than a 5-foot grand, which is why she would like a digital grand.

Unfortunately we do not have a KAWAI or ROLAND dealer here in San Antonio.

I think I will wait until both the 665 and 695 make it to our local showroom and have her try them both out. Ultimately it will be her playing the darn things.

If space is at a premium I wouldn't get the mini-grand. I'd be paying thousands extra just for a curvy-backed cabinet.I'd put that same money into a console and get a better piano.

PianoBuyer online -- click the link near the top left corner of this forum page -- has a number of useful, free articles.

Here is one on small grand pianos:
https://www.pianobuyer.com/Articles...G-A-GRAND-PIANO-LESS-THAN-FIVE-FEET-LONG

Small grands have come a long way in scale design and quality of construction in recent years, partly due to Chinese manufacturers. Some European companies manufacture in China, but many German-sounding names are just brands of Chinese companies -- not necessarily bad, just a marketing strategy. Established Japanese companies have responded well by improving their entry-level grands.

All in all, I found healthy competition in the acoustic grand market, with only a few manufacturers resting on laurels won in days gone by.

The action in the 695 is better enough it's worth the consideration if she's willing the spend the money. As someone who just traded in a CLP-685 for an N1X, it's a shame she is so stuck on the grand case, the AvantGrand's are so much better than the CLP's.

Yamaha do a very nice 5 footer acoustic (GB1) with a lovely deep tone . . .around £8k

I wonder if Yamaha see the CLP 695 as a cheaper alternative to the N3X. Most "normal" people are probably unaware of the difference in actions in the different lines.

I remember playing one of these a while ago. I was amazed by the value for money.

When I purchased my Yamaha N3X, there was a GB1K right next to it. It's a delightful piano and being an acoustic, it indeed had better a spatial sound envelope than the N3X. However, being over a foot deeper than the N3X, it simply would not have fit in my living room. If I could level one criticism at the GB1K it would be the fast decay of the bass spectrum. I expected this, but when I went back and forth vs. the N3X (with its sampled 9 ft concert grand... no fair!) is when it was most apparent. Bang away at the low notes all you want, but they're just gonna decay quicker due to physics.

I agree though, it does a better job than many other baby grands, and for the money it's a fantastic piano. Had it fit in my living room, I might have had a much tougher decision... (I bought my N3X for $13,999... they had a GB1K with silent piano module for $13,499)

Finally had the chance to play the CLP-695GP in the store. I played for about an hour (brought my headphones and everything), bouncing back and forth to the between it and the CLP-665GP in the showroom. The short version: in my humble opinion, it's worth the $2K premium over the CLP-665GP. It's simply better in every single way.

LOOKS:
Whereas the CLP-665GP looked a bit diminutive and almost toy-like sitting next to the acoustic grands in the store, the CLP-695GP held its own with its beautiful glossy wood speaker cabinet and more traditional shape. It is a full foot deeper than the CLP-665GP, and it shows.

KEYBOARD ACTION:Based on my reading, the action on the CLP-695GP is quite polarizing. Some people love it, others hate it. I didn't much care for the mushy feeling of the CLP-665GP's plastic keys: I had a harder time articulating expressive passages, and trills were no fun. The CLP-695GP, by contrast, felt much more natural and realistic, albeit on the heavy side, which I adjusted to quickly. You can really feel the quicker rebounding of the keys from the counterweights, making quick runs and trills a rewarding experience. I also had a much easier time with dynamic range, playing soft pieces like Gymnopedie No. 1, one of my favorite pieces for testing a digital piano's mettle. It was indeed heavier and louder than the CLP-665GP, but those are minor niggles compared to what the upgraded action provided in my testing.

SOUND:
The Achille's heel of the CLP-665GP is its weak four-speaker cabinet. I don't know what happens in the middle register, but it sounds so digital and fake I can't bring myself to ever get fully engaged with the instrument. (This all goes away with the binaurally-sampled CFX in the headphones though.) The 300W 6-speaker system on the CLP-695GP was orders of magnitude better. Compared to my 12-speaker N3X, it still sounded a little less natural than what I'm used to hearing (the lack of spatial sampling found on my N3X probably was the main culprit), but compared to the CLP-665GP? It wasn't even close.

HONORABLE MENTION:
The CLP-665GP is pretty bare-bones when it comes to voice selection, but the CLP-695GP has a much bigger suite of voices (including 480XG voices) that will allow for streaming of MIDI files. This is honestly not that big of a deal to me, but thought it was worth mentioning.

VERDICT:
In closing, beginner to intermediate players may find the CLP-665GP to be adequate for their needs; it fills a niche and handles the basics, but will likely be outgrown over time as skills improve. For the aspiring pianist with a bigger commitment planned, the CLP-695GP, will provide a more rewarding experience and make playing more fun... that's what it's all about as far as I'm concerned.

What were the prices quoted for those two pianos?

Sorry I'd meant to mention that...

Yamaha's online pricing:
CLP-665GP: $5,499
CLP-695GP: $7,499

Store's quoted price:
CLP-665GP: $4,449
CLP-695GP: $6,399

Based on prior experience, and based on your posts above ...

The CLP665 is a poor value. The price ($4449) is higher than Kawai's top CA model (CA98) but its performance is inferior.
Note: I'd bet you could get that CLP665 for $3800, which is 30% off list. But that's still higher than the CA98.
So ... as has been true for over a decade ... the CLPx65 model is a bottom-of-the-line Clav in a mini-grand cabinet. Nice cabinet. Crappy piano.

The CLP695 at $7499 is pretty pricey. I wonder what the CLP685 sells for? (Same piano, less the mini-grand cabinet.)

Totally agree with you on the CLP-665GP. Not worth it, IMO.

Unfortunately we have no Kawai dealers nearby. She's also pretty adamant about getting a grand cabinet (small enough to fit in her living room) but doesn't want to pay N3X money. Frankly the only choice at the $6400 price point (+ $50 delivery) is the CLP-695GP. I think that price is pretty fair for what you get... do you think she could dicker the price down further?? CLP-695GPs aren't exactly ubiquitous.

You could offer $5200 for the 695 model. I think that's fair.
Ubiquity has nothing to do with it.
Pianos are NOT SCARCE. But buyers like you ARE. Use that to your advantage.

You don't try to reduce the dealer's asking price.
Instead, you make an offer. And you allow the dealer to try to raise your price.

The dealer wants your money more than you want his piano. Never forget that.

I generally make only one offer. Deal or no deal.

MacMacMac, your words are most wise. Thanks. I'll pass them along.

I went around to about 4 different Yamaha dealers in my area, and got the following price quotes. 1st $6500 2nd $5999 3rd $7500 and 4th $4800.

The last quote did not include shipping, but definitely one heck of a deal. I am still waiting for it to be shipped to store and should have in in a few more weeks. I would shop around more as there is a lot of wiggle room in these prices. Find the smallest (private) Yamaha dealer you can, and ask them for their best price. You should be able to do better than $6400.