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Re: The Yamaha CLP-695GP, six months later: [Re: Pianoguy_SWE] #2847857 05/13/19 04:53 PM
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I would argue that it does matter who has the absolute longest! For one thing, there are records to be broken and there is no room for shorties.

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Re: The Yamaha CLP-695GP, six months later: [Re: Pete14] #2847860 05/13/19 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Pete14
I would argue that it does matter who has the absolute longest! For one thing, there are records to be broken and there is no room for shorties.


Sorry, I was specifically saying it's not worth comparing the pivot length of the CLP to the AG, not for DP's in general where it does really matter (and I realize you're being somewhat tongue in cheek but I realized what I said could be taken as a generalization.)


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth) and C minor Prelude (big chords)
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO
Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: Pianoguy_SWE] #2847863 05/13/19 05:02 PM
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Apology accepted, but I was responding to Gombessa’s ‘takeaway’, and my post came in a bit late (after yours instead of Gombessa’s) smile

Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: Pianoguy_SWE] #2847882 05/13/19 06:12 PM
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Size matters.
No, it doesn't.
Yes, it does.
frown

Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: MacMacMac] #2847891 05/13/19 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Size matters.
No, it doesn't.
Yes, it does.
frown

When threading thread through a needle you are right size matters smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: johnstaf] #2847900 05/13/19 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
PS, I can't imagine any situation where having a real grand action is a disadvantage, just that when choosing a DP. the most realistic action may not be the one I like best. For my purposes, I'm hoping the new Roland action (the hybrid action that isn't really) will be perfect for me. If not, I'll probably buy a Yamaha CLP-685, N1X, or NV10 in the future.

Are you talking about the Roland LX706/LX708 actions? I have compared them to the N1 and NV10 back in December and there is no comparison really. The N1 and NV10 are much better. I will likely buy an N1X or NV10 this week. The store with the N1X also has a CLP685 and the LX708. I didn't try the CLP685 when I was there last, but will compare all three of LX708, CLP685, and N1X side-by-side this week, before I go to another store to try again the NV10. (I decided I just try one last time before buying.)


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Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: EPW] #2847903 05/13/19 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by EPW
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Size matters.
No, it doesn't.
Yes, it does.
frown

When threading thread through a needle you are right size matters smile


The size of this thread also matters. smile


Yamaha N1X, P-515. Garritan CFX. Genelec 8331 monitors.
Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: Pianoguy_SWE] #2847977 05/14/19 03:10 AM
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The 695 is a nice piano. But it seems odd to compare it with the Avant Grands. The 695 has neither the upright action of the N1 nor the grand action of the N3.

Re: The Yamaha CLP-695GP, six months later: [Re: Chrispy] #2847979 05/14/19 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Chrispy
In my personal opinion, that doesn't matter a lick, the action on the AG is so much better than the CLP-685. It's an apple and oranges comparison. I didn't mind the CLP, but now that I have the AG there's no going back ever...


I spent well oven an hour in the music store, going back and forth between the AvantGrand N1 and the CLP-695 before I made my desicion. My findings:

1) Force required to press down a key the same beteween the two, at least I couldn't tell the difference.
2) When the keys are pressed down, there is no discernable difference in the "feel" as the key reaches the bottom position.
3) With both pianos, there is a discrete, but clear "escapement" feel as you press down a key: therefore no difference in how quickly you can repeat the same note (I can manage about 7-8 times/second on my piano, and I don't know if it is the piano or my brain that sets that limit. I suspect my brain is the culprint, since the piano is specified for 13, I think)
4) Both pianos require the same pressure to press dow a key down near the rear end of the key: this is why the length of the key (e.g. distance between pivot point and finger) is important: if the pivot is too close to the finger, the key requires greater force to be pressed down, making it more difficult to play well. As you guys discussed above. This was previously a main weakness of digital pianos, but with the grand touch keyboard, Yamaha seems to have taken care of that issue.
5) I could not detect any difference in "pressure curve" -e.g. resistance from the key as the key was going up or down from the bottom position of the keybed. Same feel in both pianos.

I thought long and carefully about this, because it was a vital part of my purchase desicion, and my question was this:

If I cannot detect any difference whatsoever in the properties or playability of the mechanics even after careful testing for more than an hour: how can I then motivate the purchase of a hybrid piano with traditional mechanics?


To begin with, the AvantGrand N1 had less powerful speakers and a less appealing overall sound than the 695GP. Second, the mechanics of the AG is more complex, with wooden parts and felt components bound to be in need of service, just like with an acoustic grand. This is bound to cost me money further down the road, as the warranty runs out in 5 years.

My question to the quoted poster above is: if you experienced the AG as "so much better" the the grand touch keyboard: what specific properties where you referring to, of the above mentioned points 1 to 5? Were there other significant properties not mentioned above?

Let me emphasize: this is not a "AG vs CLP fight". I'm honestly interested in your experience, and how you feel that the properties of the keybeds differ.



Last edited by Finurliig; 05/14/19 03:29 AM.

Yamaha CLP-695GP at home.

Composers: Bach, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Mendelssohn.

Performers: David Fray, Jean Rondeau, Glenn Gould, Evgeny Kissin, Daniel Barenboim
Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: MacMacMac] #2847990 05/14/19 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
The 695 is a nice piano. But it seems odd to compare it with the Avant Grands. The 695 has neither the upright action of the N1 nor the grand action of the N3.


1) The N1, N2 and N3 all have the same grand piano action: read the specs on the Yamaha website. You're thinkting about the NU1X, with an upright action.
2) Comparison irrelevant? I must beg to differ; this is a highly relevant question for a vast number of piano buyers:

Have the mechanics of digital pianos finally reached a level of technical refinement that makes them roughly equal to pianos with traditional mechanics, in terms of opportunities for musical expression?

Ten years ago, I would have answered "no" to that question. Today, with this grand touch action, I'm not so sure.

Yamaha's competitors have also presented similar improvements, so we can assume this is a general trend with digital pianos: the piano manufacturers are striving to make digital pianos that are serious competitors to the best acoustic pianos in terms of playability and the mechanics.
The only remaining advantage with a traditional acoustic grand today would be the sound they produce: even with high quality speakers, it's simply not possible to get the same dynamic range or "living" sound out of the speaker cones of a digital piano as the real acoustic thing.

And if this is the case, how is it possible to still motivate the purchase of an Avant Grand with.......loudspeakers?


Yamaha CLP-695GP at home.

Composers: Bach, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Mendelssohn.

Performers: David Fray, Jean Rondeau, Glenn Gould, Evgeny Kissin, Daniel Barenboim
Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: Pianoguy_SWE] #2848004 05/14/19 06:53 AM
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I have not played the GrandTouch; however, I own a P-515 (NWX), and it’s fantastic. I’ve been playing on 3-sensor actions for a while, and honestly I never noticed that much of an improvement over the 2-sensor actions in terms of repetition and overall playability until I played the P-515 (paired to Pianoteq). And yes, I now wonder how much of an advantage the ‘real thing’ used in the hybrids offer in practical terms. I used to ‘hate’ folded actions and believed these could never come close to a Kawai-type action. I now prefer this action (NWX) to the Kawai RM3, GF, etc...

No doubt that the action in these hybrids is the absolute-entry-level in every sense of the word and that must be taken into consideration. Also, I do feel that there’s a predisposition: ‘the grand action has to be better because..........’ and one cannot deny that this will have an influence in players’ perspectives before they even play/compare these actions. So I say, at least have an open mind and do not dismiss at a glance.
I’ve played the N2 and I cannot say that it’s hands-down better than my current setup. On the other hand, the last time I played a Steinway (M) even playing a scale was a momentous experience compared to any digital. Perhaps this has to do with how the action connects to the sound in a full-blown acoustic, but the N2 simply did not come close to recreating a similar experience.

Of course, this is just Pete14’s opinion. I watched a video where the reviewer stated that the NWX was ‘too sensitive and unlike any acoustic action;’ for me it’s that sensitivity and trigger-happy aspect that allows for everything from dynamics, articulation, repetition, etc.. to simply feel right.
Does it feel/play like the Steinway? Perhaps not, but it feels like a ‘real’ action and not like a botched mutation.

Re: The Yamaha CLP-695GP, six months later: [Re: Pianoguy_SWE] #2849756 05/18/19 08:09 PM
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Thanks for sharing your update Pianoguy SWE! I sold my CLP-465 about a month

ago with intentions to upgrade to this model, but I was unable to find a

floor model to try so I have been relying heavily on reviews the past few

months. I just recently put 1k down on the CLP-695 and have another

month before it arrives to the store for pick up. I did end up putting the

$ down before trying it, but have since found a store that had a floor

model and was able to sample it for about an hour. I gotta be honest here

and say I wasn't super impressed with sound or action of the CLP-695, and

was getting nervous that I made a hasty decision. IMO the clp-695

sounded MORE digital than the CLP-465 which really surprised me considering

the new samples/ higher wattage speakers in the 695 model. The action did

feel more realistic in the 695 to me, but also seemed a lot heavier than

what I had been playing on.

With that said, I am self taught on the piano, and have only really learned to

play using my clp-465, and part of me thinks that I am just so use to the

GH3 action on the 465 that anything else just doesn't feel or sound

natural to me. I never learned on a real piano so it is hard for me to

discern what to look for in terms of playability. I am mainly into

Classical piano and am really wanting to push myself to learn some of the more advanced stuff.
I am hoping the 695 won't be a challenge to learn some of the

faster/more advanced classical pieces considering the heavier action that

it has.(Hopefully you can comfort me in regards to this concern).

Either way, this is the piano I am sticking with because the hybrids are

above my price range, and I need to be able to separate left and right

channels to learn the music by ear.

Really appreciate the update you gave, because there is not much out

there on this specific piano. I think I may do my own in depth review and post to

youtube once I get the clp-695 myself .

I will see if this link works, but here is a sample of the CLP-465 that I just sold.

Is it possible that the new sound samples are actually worse or am I crazy?



https://www.facebook.com/john.frederick.967/videos/2081324031923068/



https://youtu.be/VrI_lDzRnGM

Re: The Yamaha CLP-695GP, six months later: [Re: johnfred] #2849846 05/19/19 06:02 AM
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Well, I believe that 695 is a very very good purchase. It does not sound "more digital" than older Yamaha piano, probably you are stuck with old piano you played for years, so maybe you did not expect a different, newer performances. Heavier action is bettere for classical music pianist. Don't worry, you will be happy with your new piano. Let us know.

Re: The Yamaha CLP-695GP, six months later: [Re: johnfred] #2850571 05/21/19 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by johnfred

Is it possible that the new sound samples are actually worse or am I crazy?


I’ll can record the sound of the CFX and the Bösendorfer and post a link to it here. It might take a couple of days for me to get around to it though: I have a lot to do right now.
When I listen to your recording, my answer would be no, the 695 does not sound more ”synthetic”, but I’ll try and make a sample for you and let you hear for yourself.


Yamaha CLP-695GP at home.

Composers: Bach, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Mendelssohn.

Performers: David Fray, Jean Rondeau, Glenn Gould, Evgeny Kissin, Daniel Barenboim
Re: The Yamaha CLP-695GP, six months later: [Re: Pianoguy_SWE] #2850603 05/21/19 04:39 AM
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I can't get my head around the CLP's actions, both low and high end models. And it annoys me, 'cause I like how they sound. For me they're just too "blocky", they're not gradual enough. Remind me of an upright, but not in a good way - and my education has been 100% on uprights, so stuff like NU1X is totally ok for me.

For my fingers, N series is a different planet, especially N1X (likely N3X, too, but I can't remember how it feels). Do I think the musical result achievable on an N1 is significantly better than a high-end CLP? No, unless maybe you're a piano demi-god.

Re: The Yamaha CLP-695GP, six months later: [Re: Hecarim] #2850661 05/21/19 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Hecarim
I can't get my head around the CLP's actions, both low and high end models. And it annoys me, 'cause I like how they sound. For me they're just too "blocky", they're not gradual enough. Remind me of an upright, but not in a good way - and my education has been 100% on uprights, so stuff like NU1X is totally ok for me.


It's probably the most divisive action that's come on the market in quite a while. Some people love it, and others say it feels too weird. It's an interesting situation. The version in the CLP-675 is missing the counterweights that are in the 685 and 695. That strikes me as really weird. It's like a broken version as opposed to a lower end alternative.

Last edited by johnstaf; 05/21/19 07:59 AM.
Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: Pianoguy_SWE] #2850668 05/21/19 08:19 AM
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Ok: I got half an hour to spare this afternoon, so I made a simple soundcheck recording of the 695 with my iPhone.

The iPhone mic can't capture the higher notes adequately: it sounds quite terrible on the recording. In real life the higher notes of the CFX voice has a nice crystalline quality I really like. The bass is captured somewhat better.

I'll go to the music store and pick up a decent recording mic sometime next week, but this will have to do for now. Hope you fint this one useful in the meantime, Johnfred.

https://youtu.be/bL3hZgYMFw0


Yamaha CLP-695GP at home.

Composers: Bach, Chopin, Liszt, Rachmaninoff, Mendelssohn.

Performers: David Fray, Jean Rondeau, Glenn Gould, Evgeny Kissin, Daniel Barenboim
Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: johnstaf] #2850720 05/21/19 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by johnstaf

It's probably the most divisive action that's come on the market in quite a while. Some people love it, and others say it feels too weird. It's an interesting situation. The version in the CLP-675 is missing the counterweights that are in the 685 and 695. That strikes me as really weird. It's like a broken version as opposed to a lower end alternative.


Anything that tries to artificially reproduce "the real thing" is going to be polarizing. For my part, I finally had the chance to play a CLP-695GP at my local store for about an hour and must say - I came away quite impressed with the action. It's probably the best out of anything I've tried in the Clavinova line - far superior to the mushy action on the entry-level CLP-665GP (the speakers were also far louder and fuller).

The two criticisms of the 695's action being too loud and heavy: I went back and forth between the 695 and 665, banging away at both keybeds and the difference in loudness is pretty small. As for heaviness, yes at first I felt a slight resistance at the beginning of the key travel. There's also a "notchiness" about it which if I'm being picky isn't the most natural sensation at first - but I got used to it quickly. Everything from fast runs/trills to slow expressive pieces felt extremely rewarding to play. IMHO I'd say the action even rivals the hybrid action of the Casio Celvianos I've played.

Last edited by vara411; 05/21/19 10:56 AM.

Yamaha AvantGrand N3X
Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: Pianoguy_SWE] #2850805 05/21/19 03:07 PM
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Thanks for uploading that video!

I actually prefer the piano being recorded with a phone or microphone vs using direct feed. You Most videos ( including mine) are recorded live and then synced up with the midi file which produces a nice clean sound, but the raw feel and power is somewhat lost.

After listening to that much appreciated demo video, I must say that low end is awesome. It does sound Way better than what I had been playing on and it gives me better confidence after listening to it. The high end is pretty nice too, and I do understand that a phone recording can only do so much justice to replicate what you are hearing while you play. The only negative I noticed while listening to the tone was the Mid- high keys on the piano. I also noticed this when I sampled the piano myself a few weeks ago. IMO they sound digital to me only in this specific Mid-high range, but After listening to the sound produced by the 465, and then watching your video , It is clear that the 695 Clp has more realistic tone in its overall quality.

Keep the videos coming pianoguy swe ! I wouldn’t mind hearing a classical piece played as I wait 3-4 weeks before I receive my piano.

Re: Comparison between Yamaha CLP-695GP and Yamaha N series? [Re: johnstaf] #2850898 05/21/19 08:36 PM
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It's probably the most divisive action that's come on the market in quite a while. Some people love it, and others say it feels too weird. It's an interesting situation. The version in the CLP-675 is missing the counterweights that are in the 685 and 695. That strikes me as really weird. It's like a broken version as opposed to a lower end alternative.
[/quote]


I think they released the Grand Turd action in the Clp 675, and then when it was not well received, they quickly threw some counterweights on it, and called it good, thus leading to the 685. I have not played the 675, but everything I’ve read says to stay away.

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