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Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: johnstaf] #2850659
05/21/19 08:57 AM
05/21/19 08:57 AM
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
I'd buy the Roland for the action. BTW have you tried the FP-90? It's much cheaper than the RD2000 but has the same action. The sound engine is very different though. You don't have nearly as many sounds. I think the Kawai is equally good, but I just happen to prefer the action of the Roland.


Have you played the MP11SE ?

I ask, because I cannot imagine "preferring" the Roland action if you have played the MP11SE.





Last edited by dmd; 05/21/19 09:05 AM.

Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
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Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: dmd] #2850666
05/21/19 09:11 AM
05/21/19 09:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,141
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johnstaf Online crying
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Originally Posted by dmd
Originally Posted by johnstaf
I'd buy the Roland for the action. BTW have you tried the FP-90? It's much cheaper than the RD2000 but has the same action. The sound engine is very different though. You don't have nearly as many sounds. I think the Kawai is equally good, but I just happen to prefer the action of the Roland.


Have you played the MP11SE ?

I ask, because I cannot imagine "preferring" the Roland action if you have played the MP11SE.


Yes. I don't randomly select piano actions to recommend. Why shouldn't I prefer it?

Last edited by johnstaf; 05/21/19 09:17 AM.
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: johnstaf] #2850669
05/21/19 09:26 AM
05/21/19 09:26 AM
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
Yes. I don't randomly select piano actions to recommend.


Good.

Sorry …. Had to ask. It has been known to happen.


Quote
Why shouldn't I prefer it?


No particular reason.

I guess I have become such a fan of the MP11SE that it is just difficult for me to imagine someone playing it and then preferring something else.

I suppose there is a bit of Kawai bias in there.

I have been playing Kawai pianos for quite a while.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: China_Jack] #2850671
05/21/19 09:28 AM
05/21/19 09:28 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
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johnstaf Online crying
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I've been playing Kawai for a long time too. I have an MP10.

Last edited by johnstaf; 05/21/19 09:30 AM.
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: johnstaf] #2850676
05/21/19 09:46 AM
05/21/19 09:46 AM
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by johnstaf
I've been playing Kawai for a long time too. I have an MP10.


Well, in that case …. I have added respect for your preference.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: China_Jack] #2850765
05/21/19 02:17 PM
05/21/19 02:17 PM
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China_Jack Offline OP
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HAHAHA so far no one say go YAMAHA

Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: China_Jack] #2850800
05/21/19 03:44 PM
05/21/19 03:44 PM
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Posts: 54
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I went YAMAHA CP88 for that fantastic C7 sample, the future OS updates and new sounds, the looks, the name, the keybed, the quality, the weight, the size, the 78 rhodes, the original DX and CP sounds... (in random order).

Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: China_Jack] #2850829
05/21/19 05:01 PM
05/21/19 05:01 PM
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Manolios Offline
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Hi China Jack.

I‘d definitely take Yamaha. Great sound AND build to last! A lot of the REAL PROs (Jazz / Pop ) use Yamaha. Among others, true. But there’s a lotta love for Yamaha from the Pros out there. Bit of love for Nord, also true, couple Rolands, maybe some Korgs, but, this is it. Pros usually don‘t use other brands.


Yamaha C3 | CP4 | Sauter Modell 108
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: China_Jack] #2850863
05/21/19 06:52 PM
05/21/19 06:52 PM
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So let me give you a feedback on Yamaha. I have owned many Yamaha gears since 90's. The current situation with Yamaha is pretty sad.

These days Yamaha is just making instruments to sell and have "zero" respect for the intelligence of the artist. Before I purchase my Kawai MP7SE, I almost bought a Yamaha CP4. CP4 has the SCM technology in it (Spectral Component Modelling) and there were no velocity layers (almost). The action on CP4 is pretty decent but the reality is: CP4 almost sounds the same as my MOTIF XF.

Now why I didn't give a single care to CP88?

- SCM is removed
- Completely sampled based stage piano
- Action is inferior to Kawai MP7SE
- Soundwise, Yamaha is not 88 keys sampled.
- No key-off release
- No sympathetic resonance on Yamaha
- Superior pedal in Kawai MP series
- Very limited voice editing capabilities
- Inferior drawbar organs (Kawai has a drawbar mode)
- Polyphony is 128 vs Kawai 256
and many more.

and price-wise, Yamaha PC88 is way way expensive for what it is.

Who said that pros don't use Kawai? If you see many PROs playing Yamaha is not because they have chosen Yamaha themselves, it is because they got one for free!

The only positive side of Yamaha CP88 is its audio interface, else MP7/11SE beats CP88 in every aspect.

Try both. Try Yamaha CP88 and Kawai MP7/11SE and see which one you like the most.

My 2 cents: Kawai is much more fun to play and is way more expressive than Yamaha. MP7SE is also a badass MIDI controller. If you have a multi-keyboard setup, it is fantastic.

Last edited by Abdol; 05/21/19 07:01 PM.

Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: Abdol] #2850937
05/22/19 01:58 AM
05/22/19 01:58 AM
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Manolios Offline
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Originally Posted by Abdol
The current situation with Yamaha is pretty sad.


Yeah, very sad indeed. I give 'em two, maybe three more years and they're done.


Yamaha C3 | CP4 | Sauter Modell 108
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: Manolios] #2850950
05/22/19 02:39 AM
05/22/19 02:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,008
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Originally Posted by Manolios
Originally Posted by Abdol
The current situation with Yamaha is pretty sad.


Yeah, very sad indeed. I give 'em two, maybe three more years and they're done.


Just to be clear:

. . . That's a joke, isn't it?


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: Charles Cohen] #2850984
05/22/19 06:14 AM
05/22/19 06:14 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,167
Raleigh, North Carolina
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Indeed. You said it, CC.

Let's see ... Yamaha, the biggest piano maker in the world (and the biggest musical instrument maker in the world) ... will soon be "done" (out of business?) in a couple of years ... because somebody doesn't like one of their keyboards?
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by Manolios
Originally Posted by Abdol
The current situation with Yamaha is pretty sad.
Yeah, very sad indeed. I give 'em two, maybe three more years and they're done.
Just to be clear:
. . . That's a joke, isn't it?


Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: Abdol] #2850986
05/22/19 06:33 AM
05/22/19 06:33 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 40
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China_Jack Offline OP
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hello
its a ture story I will say. I am sure not good and pro as you guys in the DP . but I saw all those years products from all brand. I will say yamaha had impact by Nord . from what I know. Roland V-piano had make a change for the sound and cp1 lose. then while the rd700nx vs cp4 cp5 vs rd800. here comes the Nord . and it did kills all. and Roland fight back by RD2000, but yamaha? new Montage and Geons ? just when Korg grandstage comes out now it has the cp88.
I am just saying it. yamaha made CLP CVP CP for all kinds. maybe its right, but the so called NW? its gh3 . roland has changed for pah-2 -3 -4a -50 and more, yes I am curious about the touch feel. is the feel very important ? is the sound should be most important ? I dont know, but for these 5 years. what are those new keyboard has Replaced?
I dont want say bad about yamaha , but from what Isaw, it just did,
so I am waiting for the new RD, it should be more good,

Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: Manolios] #2850993
05/22/19 06:46 AM
05/22/19 06:46 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 40
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China_Jack Offline OP
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I like yamaha , because I live in ASIAN, so I heard it very often. more than the kawai . and now when I wanna buy one, I have to say. if I watch the cp88 video and cp88 only, it sounds sooooo good, I will even think the sound is a little bit fake, you know what I mean? its like the real thing but somehow it dont like the real thing at all, its just how I feel. I dont know , I was wonder for CP8 CP10 something, it will good, like the kawai touch.. great sound, but it doesnt happend. and like I said, if I watching the vp88 videos , I will like it , but the thing is , you know those video , the play them all. so I will compare them by subliminal. and then cp88 is not good .

I think the best way to select DP that you wanna buy is listem the video. dont look at them. just listen, and which one you like the sound . you buy it, its more easy.

Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: China_Jack] #2850998
05/22/19 07:16 AM
05/22/19 07:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 136
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Maartin Offline
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Are you getting a piano to play it, or to listen to it?

You can buy CDs of professionals playing for a fraction of the price.

Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: China_Jack] #2851006
05/22/19 07:43 AM
05/22/19 07:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,428
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Posts: 1,428
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by China_Jack
hello
its a ture story I will say. I am sure not good and pro as you guys in the DP . but I saw all those years products from all brand. I will say yamaha had impact by Nord . from what I know. Roland V-piano had make a change for the sound and cp1 lose. then while the rd700nx vs cp4 cp5 vs rd800. here comes the Nord . and it did kills all. and Roland fight back by RD2000, but yamaha? new Montage and Geons ? just when Korg grandstage comes out now it has the cp88.
I am just saying it. yamaha made CLP CVP CP for all kinds. maybe its right, but the so called NW? its gh3 . roland has changed for pah-2 -3 -4a -50 and more, yes I am curious about the touch feel. is the feel very important ? is the sound should be most important ? I dont know, but for these 5 years. what are those new keyboard has Replaced?
I dont want say bad about yamaha , but from what Isaw, it just did,
so I am waiting for the new RD, it should be more good,


Hi CJ,

It's not so complicated laugh

You first draw up a short list based upon budget and purpose (keep shortlist to models out in last 4 years)---have a good think about what you need. If you can't decide, test lots of models in store first then decide.
You test the models.
The action and sound combination you like the best (holistically) you buy.
If you can't test, think what you need and buy the instrument that best suits budget and that sounds best from YouTube videos etc.

Both sound and action quality are subjective issues. What an acoustic player likes, a digital player might not. Even within groupings, there is large variation of opinion because acoustic actions and sound also vary a lot and people's perceptions vary too much for one to say: this is what you'll like.

One way of looking at it:

If you are gigging in a band and don't intend to do complex sound edit prior to the gig, you go for the Nord Piano 4 or Yamaha CP88.
If you want a mid-range more all-round stage piano for gigging and personal use, you've got the GrandStage, MP7SE, etc
If you want a top all rounder with great action, you go for the RD2000 as it can do so much more.
If you want 40 great sounds with the best action in a slab piano (pianist stage piano), you get the MP11SE.
If you want a workstation, get a Korg Kronos
If you want a synth workstation with FM engine, get a Montage 88.

If you don't care about sound editing, splits, multi-patch sound combinations, midi controlling, pitch bend and modulation wheels, tonnes of rhythm patterns, sequencer ability etc., and you like the actions enough, then consider a portable piano such as the ES8, FP90, P515, PX3000S etc.

When you test things out, you'll have a much better idea for yourself.

If you have the money, the best stage and portable actions IMO (in no particular order)

Yamaha NXW (P515)
Roland PHAIII (V-piano)
Roland PHAIV (RD800)
Roland PHA50 (RD2000, FP90)
Kawai RHIII (ES8, MP7SE)
Kawai GrandFeel 1 (MP11 and MP11SE)
Kawai RM3II (VPC1)
Kawai RHII (ES7 and MP7)

All these are quality products.

Some instruments have great sound but less great actions but are still amazing instruments:

Top of this second tier action list is the Nord Piano 4 and Yamaha CP88 (for gigging though).
Below are: Korg Grandstage, Kurzweil Forte, Kurzweil Artis, Nord Piano 3, Nord Stage 3, Physis Piano, Casios (PX3000S), Korg Kronos, Yamaha Montage 88, Yamaha MODX boards, Hammond SK1 Dexibel products etc etc etc.

Anything over £1500 is going to be great. All these in the second list are very good boards and you probably won't find them all in one store to test anyway!

Have fun testing out things. Don't decide too quickly. Consider the used piano market to avoid suffering depreciation.

Kind regards,

Doug.

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/22/19 07:48 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: Maartin] #2851008
05/22/19 07:47 AM
05/22/19 07:47 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,156
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by Maartin
Are you getting a piano to play it, or to listen to it?

You can buy CDs of professionals playing for a fraction of the price.

Perhaps related, there are people who buy acoustic grand pianos as furniture. When my wife and I had a flat in Shanghai, we had a few friends who kept grand pianos in their home whose main function was decorative. PianoDisc, Disklavier, etc. are popular in Asia.


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Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: Doug M.] #2851038
05/22/19 09:19 AM
05/22/19 09:19 AM
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Posts: 40
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China_Jack Offline OP
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thanks alot doug , its a great way to find out. I think I will consider try to do more test or watching the videos.

Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: Manolios] #2851143
05/22/19 01:10 PM
05/22/19 01:10 PM
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Abdol Offline
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Originally Posted by Manolios
Originally Posted by Abdol
The current situation with Yamaha is pretty sad.


Yeah, very sad indeed. I give 'em two, maybe three more years and they're done.


Good one, but I didn't say Yamaha will disappear. Yamaha has made many iconic instruments! Unfortunately, CP88 is not one of them! Name something innovative about CP88 other than being a ROMPler?

Also, it should be noted that Yamaha does not offer any alternatives to Kawai MP11SE. So there is no point in comparing CP88 with MP11SE. The only product which makes sense to compare CP88 with is MP7SE.

CP4 is a great instrument but I liked MP7SE. This is just a personal preference which is completely based on the priorities I have.


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: please tell me one of them I should buy [Re: China_Jack] #2851158
05/22/19 01:42 PM
05/22/19 01:42 PM
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KL NY Offline
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Originally Posted by China_Jack
hello
its a ture story I will say. I am sure not good and pro as you guys in the DP . but I saw all those years products from all brand. I will say yamaha had impact by Nord . from what I know. Roland V-piano had make a change for the sound and cp1 lose. then while the rd700nx vs cp4 cp5 vs rd800. here comes the Nord . and it did kills all. and Roland fight back by RD2000, but yamaha? new Montage and Geons ? just when Korg grandstage comes out now it has the cp88.
I am just saying it. yamaha made CLP CVP CP for all kinds. maybe its right, but the so called NW? its gh3 . roland has changed for pah-2 -3 -4a -50 and more, yes I am curious about the touch feel. is the feel very important ? is the sound should be most important ? I dont know, but for these 5 years. what are those new keyboard has Replaced?
I dont want say bad about yamaha , but from what Isaw, it just did,
so I am waiting for the new RD, it should be more good,


What i know about this forum is that Kawai is almost always the default recommendation, not saying that is a bad thing. IMO, you just need to go and play and listen to each of them and pick one you like.

To be honest, how the action feel is very personal , some key action may feel more "acoustic" and make more like "acoustic" piano, no really matter, if you dont like it.

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