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Disappointment in practice... #2850492
05/20/19 04:58 PM
05/20/19 04:58 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 2
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drweb86 Offline OP
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drweb86  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2019
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Good evening,

I want to ask for your advice, is there any sense in continuing courses of playing piano.

I bought synth in December 2017 and went to piano lessons. I wanted to play something for myself, some covers for game music and produce music and play it in band.

Initially I worked with teacher and at home. We selected some piece and were trying to learn it by heart Initially I worked for 1,5 hours per day at home. In 4 months, motivation decreased drastically. I finished learning my first piece. I understood that when pianist plays for pieces in a row – he shares with public his year of life of constant practice in those pieces.

Then I started to work at home for 45 min per day and I had to force myself into working out. After few more months I took a break for 2 months and then continued.

The main issue is that it’s hard to practice. After 10 hours of work I’m tired and learning of a new piece drives my brain crazy and exhausted. I had to force myself into practice.

Also, I investigated how much time professionals do their practice and found out that they spend 3 hours per day within 7 years just to make their level normal. And I understand that my hour per day is hardly comparable to 3-4 hours of playing per day.

However, I’m finishing learning the music theory

So, I want to ask you
- is it enough to have something like beginner level synth level to try myself in the band. I’m 32 now.
- is there any sense in continuing learning piano. I have good emotions out of playing parts that I know. But finding time for practicing and disciplining myself sucks.

Thanks

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Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850494
05/20/19 05:09 PM
05/20/19 05:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 45
Chicago
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Pau Gasol Offline
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Chicago
I doubt most people here practice 3 or 4 hours a day. Most aren't professionals though.

Try a half hour each day. Too much might burn you out but a short practice each day might be ideal. No matter how much you practice, it takes many years to become really good, at least for most people.

Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850496
05/20/19 05:16 PM
05/20/19 05:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 93
Worcester. Uk
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Wayne2467 Offline
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Worcester. Uk
Best not to look too far ahead- practise when you can and make them quality sessions when you feel fresher.

Last edited by Wayne2467; 05/20/19 05:16 PM.
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850497
05/20/19 05:17 PM
05/20/19 05:17 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 162
Hawai'i Island
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BigIslandGuy Offline
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Hawai'i Island
I guess it comes down to how much you really want to learn how to play piano. People tend to do whatever they have to for things that are of the highest priority.

I'm sure I won't be the last to remind you of what you already know, which is that you have to be patient. There are no fast tracks to learning the piano. However, if you learn to practice efficiently, you don't have to devote hours and hours every day. An hour a day of dedicated, efficient practice will make for satisfying progress that motivates you and above all, makes it enjoyable, not a death march. I am not a teacher but plenty of folks here are and can give you some excellent advice on how to make practice time more effective.
Hang in there!

Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850499
05/20/19 05:23 PM
05/20/19 05:23 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 61
Colorado
O
One Ohm Offline
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Colorado
Motivation will naturally come and go for most of us. Remember, it is supposed to be fun, so don't make a job out of it. One way I deal with long work days is to practice 15-45min early in the morning and then practice again in the evenings (most, not all). That way, if i come home super exhausted in the evening and am just too tired to get in a good practice, I know I at least got in some practice that morning. It is a marathon, not a race. The important part is to be consistently moving towards your goals. Even if that movement seems very slow.

Now, I have played in a lot of bands, so I think I can comment on that. I'm assuming you are interested in pop/rock type bands? That does not require you to be a virtuoso on the piano. Instead you need to know some basics and how to play with other musicians. I suggest you start reading the keyboard player forum (http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/forums/18/1/The_Keyboard_Corner). Learn your basic chords and inversions. Then listen to other keyboard players in bands...listen a lot. Try to work out, by ear, what they are doing. Most formal piano teachers (classical) don't have a clue how to really play in a band so don't expect them to be helpful. It is simple, but not obvious. Just because someone can play advanced piano, does not mean they can play with a band and sound good. It is a different skill.

Finally, don't get discouraged. It takes time and patience to learn a musical instrument. It is worth it and will be something you can enjoy your entire life. There will be times you need a break. That is ok. Just enjoy the journey. Another resource to check out for Rock is iRocku.com. They have easy to hard levels lessons. Again, the best thing is to listen to music you like and try to work out how it is being played. Have fun with it. Rock on!!

Last edited by One Ohm; 05/20/19 05:27 PM.
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850513
05/20/19 06:32 PM
05/20/19 06:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,220
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
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Stubbie  Offline
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Posts: 2,220
Midwest USA
Welcome to the ABF!

Pay no attention to how long professionals practice. The amount of time they say they practice is all over the place. Thirty minutes to an hour is sufficient for the early years. Do try to get in some practice each day: you need a night's sleep for the brain to consolidate grow new connections, and then practice again the following days to consolidate the new connections.

Practicing effectively when you are physically and/or mentally exhausted is difficult to pull off. Sometimes 20 min in the morning before going to work is worth an hour or two when you're tired and distracted. Many people don't feel they are 'morning' people, but it's worth giving it a try, if at all possible.

Learning to play the piano is not for the faint-hearted. It takes time and effort and patience. The rewards are huge, though. It is such a rush to make music happen. P.S. If you no longer have a teacher, you might want to start up again. It really helps having real, live feed-back and for me, anyway, knowing I have a lesson coming up helps me get to the piano and practice!


[Linked Image]
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850515
05/20/19 06:48 PM
05/20/19 06:48 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,257
In the Ozarks of Missouri
NobleHouse Online content
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NobleHouse  Online Content
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Joined: Jan 2018
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
You have to remember to keep it fun and interesting for yourself. Choose (or have your teacher choose) music that interests you. And as others have said, practice daily, even if for a short time period. And you need to have patience for sure. It does take a while.


[Linked Image]
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: NobleHouse] #2850541
05/20/19 08:45 PM
05/20/19 08:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,819
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
You have to remember to keep it fun and interesting for yourself. Choose (or have your teacher choose) music that interests you. And as others have said, practice daily, even if for a short time period. And you need to have patience for sure. It does take a while.

Agreed. The OP will not be able to sustain this long-term, no matter how laudable the goal if the process of getting "there" is a constant chore.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850545
05/20/19 09:04 PM
05/20/19 09:04 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,569
Florida
cmb13 Offline
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cmb13  Offline
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Posts: 2,569
Florida
Revised expectations may help.

Also the whole theory of the MOYD is that just sitting down for 5 min per day is enough. Five minutes usually turns into 45 min if you love it; there progress can be made.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: cmb13] #2850550
05/20/19 09:24 PM
05/20/19 09:24 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 162
Hawai'i Island
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BigIslandGuy Offline
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Hawai'i Island
Originally Posted by cmb13
Also the whole theory of the MOYD is that just sitting down for 5 min per day is enough. Five minutes usually turns into 45 min if you love it; there progress can be made.


+1

Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850568
05/21/19 01:00 AM
05/21/19 01:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 95
Portland, Oregon, USA
Emery Wang Offline
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Emery Wang  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 95
Portland, Oregon, USA
I too have little energy to practice after work. However, I started playing in the early morning a couple years ago. I find I have good energy then, it helps me wake up, and I actually look forward to it each night before. So maybe changing your schedule might help? Trying to practice after a long day when you're tired may be too big a mountain for anyone to climb.

Good luck!


Kawai MP11SE
Kawai GL10
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850581
05/21/19 02:12 AM
05/21/19 02:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 556
Sweden
Animisha Online content
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 556
Sweden
Originally Posted by drweb86
After 10 hours of work I’m tired and learning of a new piece drives my brain crazy and exhausted. I had to force myself into practice.

A ten hours working day is quite a lot. Maybe for you these ten hours is enough exertion, and what you need most after work is not more exertion by trying to learn to play the piano, but to relax, take a walk, a long bath, hang out with a friend, watch television.

Just maybe!


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: Animisha] #2850595
05/21/19 03:51 AM
05/21/19 03:51 AM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,990
Florida
dogperson Offline
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dogperson  Offline
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 3,990
Florida
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by drweb86
After 10 hours of work I’m tired and learning of a new piece drives my brain crazy and exhausted. I had to force myself into practice.

A ten hours working day is quite a lot. Maybe for you these ten hours is enough exertion, and what you need most after work is not more exertion by trying to learn to play the piano, but to relax, take a walk, a long bath, hang out with a friend, watch television.

Just maybe!


Sadly, If I waited to practice the piano on a day where I only work eight hours, I would never practice. My average work day is between 10 and 13 hours per day. That is one reason why it is essential for me to practice mindfully because practicing long hours is not a mental possibility. I know I’m not alone in this; in the US we do not have laws that prohibit salaried workers from long hours. Piano practice not only needs to be focused but also such a pleasurable activity
That it is an escape from the workday. If it becomes drudgery, we will fail

Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: dogperson] #2850596
05/21/19 04:33 AM
05/21/19 04:33 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 556
Sweden
Animisha Online content
500 Post Club Member
Animisha  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 556
Sweden
Originally Posted by dogperson
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by drweb86
After 10 hours of work I’m tired and learning of a new piece drives my brain crazy and exhausted. I had to force myself into practice.

A ten hours working day is quite a lot. Maybe for you these ten hours is enough exertion, and what you need most after work is not more exertion by trying to learn to play the piano, but to relax, take a walk, a long bath, hang out with a friend, watch television.

Just maybe!

Sadly, If I waited to practice the piano on a day where I only work eight hours, I would never practice. My average work day is between 10 and 13 hours per day. That is one reason why it is essential for me to practice mindfully because practicing long hours is not a mental possibility. I know I’m not alone in this; in the US we do not have laws that prohibit salaried workers from long hours.

I am not saying that nobody who works ten hours cannot practise the piano. We are all different. When I worked eight hours, most of the time I was way too tired to practise the piano. So for me, eight hours was too much. But then I was on my way to a burnout, I just didn't know it yet...

Originally Posted by dogperson
Piano practice not only needs to be focused but also such a pleasurable activity
That it is an escape from the workday. If it becomes drudgery, we will fail

Yes! If you feel it is pleasurable and an escape, it is wonderful. But the OP says: "drives my brain crazy and exhausted". And due to my burnout, I am very wary of exhausted brains.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850619
05/21/19 07:11 AM
05/21/19 07:11 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 221
T
TomInCinci Offline
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 221
For me, after work practice was a joke. I usually intended to work 8 hours but too often the projects were mismanaged and the developers were asked to work extra. And I was a sucker for that. I absolutely had to practice in the morning.

Somehow, at least according to my teacher, on those projects where I was being worked to death and had no time to spare, my practice was more effective. Not that I'm anyone's poster boy for normalcy...

Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: TomInCinci] #2850623
05/21/19 07:18 AM
05/21/19 07:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 572
UK
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ShyPianist Offline
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ShyPianist  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 572
UK
Originally Posted by TomInCinci
For me, after work practice was a joke. I usually intended to work 8 hours but too often the projects were mismanaged and the developers were asked to work extra. And I was a sucker for that. I absolutely had to practice in the morning.

Somehow, at least according to my teacher, on those projects where I was being worked to death and had no time to spare, my practice was more effective. Not that I'm anyone's poster boy for normalcy...


I too really struggle with practice after a full day’s work, not helped by having a young family which means it’s late in the evening before I get time to myself. Mornings would be ideal but that means getting up very early to beat the pre-school chaos, and I’m just too tired at the moment. Catch 22 that I’m struggling to resolve. I work from home so I try to do some at lunchtime but that too often goes by the wayside as that “one more” email comes in that leads to me eating at my desk. I am so full on back into music now that I am really starting to resent my work, which isn’t very sensible of me but I can’t help it!

Last edited by ShyPianist; 05/21/19 07:19 AM.

Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850634
05/21/19 07:47 AM
05/21/19 07:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 523
The Sierras
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David B Offline
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David B  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2016
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The Sierras
Here are some indispensable elements you need when learning how to play the piano.

Piano...digital or acoustic

Clearly you have that.

Time to practice

Sounds like you have the time. You were practicing 1.5 hours a day and that's pretty good for an adult beginner.

Proper Training

This could come in the form of a good teacher or a self learning course, or a combination of both. You have to find something that works for you and will help you reach the goals that you have.

Motivation

Based on your testimony, this is where your struggle is. You can have a piano, time to practice, and proper training, but as you are experiencing, you will not bear fruit if you don't have the motivation to sit down and practice regularly.

What can increase motivation?

1. Results can improve motivation. The more you can discern meaningful improvement, the more you'll develop a discipline to practice.

2. Faith in the training you are committed to. If you really believe the teacher or self training materials you are using will help you reach your goals, you'll be motivated to practice regularly.

3. Enjoyment in what you are doing. If you don't like the course you are taking or the teacher, you'll have to try something/someone else. Motivation will not come unless you find a fair degree of happiness in what you are doing.

As an adult beginner myself, my counsel to you is to identify your goals, both short and long-term. Short term goals are more relevant while long-term goals are more of a possibility hoping to be realized someday.

Then find the Proper Training that works for you to help you meet your short term goals. Try different teachers or courses. Try courses playing by ear or chord based courses. It's absolutely imperative you find the proper training that will help you see results, increase your faith in what you are doing, and provide some enjoyment in the process. It sounds like the current teacher/training program you're on isn't working for you. You'll have to find something that does if you hope to continue.

There is always the possibility that leaning how to play the piano is not how you want to spend your time. But that is anathema to us here since this is a piano forum. smile

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
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Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: ShyPianist] #2850640
05/21/19 07:58 AM
05/21/19 07:58 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 445
Sheffield, UK
K
KevinM Offline
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KevinM  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 445
Sheffield, UK
Originally Posted by ShyPianist

I too really struggle with practice after a full day’s work, not helped by having a young family which means it’s late in the evening before I get time to myself. Mornings would be ideal but that means getting up very early to beat the pre-school chaos, and I’m just too tired at the moment. Catch 22 that I’m struggling to resolve. I work from home so I try to do some at lunchtime but that too often goes by the wayside as that “one more” email comes in that leads to me eating at my desk. I am so full on back into music now that I am really starting to resent my work, which isn’t very sensible of me but I can’t help it!


My job is great, the best one I've had since I started working far too long ago, like you I work from home and also like you I'm starting to resent the time work takes away from practise. As adult learners we all have other responsibilities that practise and lessons have to be worked around and all we can do is to practise when we can and in my case keep the missing of lessons to a minimum. This week it is my teachers fault though. She's handing her thesis in today, defending it tomorrow and then off to blow off some steam for a few days. I can't say i can blame her though.


Learning Mendelssohn Song without Words Op. 19 No. 2, Schumann Bunte Blätter Stücklein Op. 99 No. 1. Jensen Sehnsucht Op. 8 No. 5. Schumann Kinderszenen Op15 No1, Von Fremden Ländern und Menschen.
Digital piano: Casio Celviano AP-470. Headphones: Superlux HD681 EVO
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: KevinM] #2850642
05/21/19 08:11 AM
05/21/19 08:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,819
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,819
Originally Posted by KevinM
Originally Posted by ShyPianist
I too really struggle with practice after a full day’s work, not helped by having a young family which means it’s late in the evening before I get time to myself. Mornings would be ideal but that means getting up very early to beat the pre-school chaos, and I’m just too tired at the moment. Catch 22 that I’m struggling to resolve. I work from home so I try to do some at lunchtime but that too often goes by the wayside as that “one more” email comes in that leads to me eating at my desk. I am so full on back into music now that I am really starting to resent my work, which isn’t very sensible of me but I can’t help it!
My job is great, the best one I've had since I started working far too long ago, like you I work from home and also like you I'm starting to resent the time work takes away from practise. As adult learners we all have other responsibilities that practise and lessons have to be worked around and all we can do is to practise when we can and in my case keep the missing of lessons to a minimum. This week it is my teachers fault though. She's handing her thesis in today, defending it tomorrow and then off to blow off some steam for a few days. I can't say i can blame her though.

I usually practice between 2-4am, although occasionally I do it earlier, although rarely before midnight. As such, I can't think of anything that cuts into my practice time.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Disappointment in practice... [Re: drweb86] #2850645
05/21/19 08:18 AM
05/21/19 08:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 445
Sheffield, UK
K
KevinM Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 445
Sheffield, UK
I have a need, a need for sleep.

If I'm practising at those times, then I'll need to be sleeping when I should be working. eek

Last edited by KevinM; 05/21/19 08:19 AM.

Learning Mendelssohn Song without Words Op. 19 No. 2, Schumann Bunte Blätter Stücklein Op. 99 No. 1. Jensen Sehnsucht Op. 8 No. 5. Schumann Kinderszenen Op15 No1, Von Fremden Ländern und Menschen.
Digital piano: Casio Celviano AP-470. Headphones: Superlux HD681 EVO
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