Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
86 registered members (Ankee, anotherscott, Animisha, Boboulus, camperbc, Anglagard44, Beowulf, AndyOnThePiano, 20 invisible), 1,357 guests, and 438 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4
Kawai Quality #2850340 05/20/19 09:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
C
cmlpires Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
I decided post in this forum because I am
tired of some of the members here to exalt
the supreme quality of Kawai pianos. I purchased a
new Kawai CP2. Now all the nightmare started.
They brought in the new CP2, placed it in my favorite
place and and after plugging to the electricity, nothing
happened. So I ask them, if they were to pick up the other
new one in their warehouse. Well he said, I have seen
this before and I shall open the back and see what
goes on. Indeed there were two white plastic small
boxes that were disconnected. So the piano finally
start working and they left. Two weeks later I tried
to connect my JBL studio speakers, but no sound was
coming from the output of the CP2. As well the MP3
output in the display panel was not working.
Called the tech support and the technician told me
that the connections were the problem. He fixed it and
I called Kawai to check the serial number and to
whom they first sold the piano. It was OK. It was new.
3 weeks later some keys start to become sticky just
like there was chewing gum under them. Tech support
came to my house and replace the double sided tape
in the keys that were having problem. He left.
One month later, more keys start to have the same issue.
I called Mr Juan Escobar from Kawai and he told me that all
the 88 keys needed to be replaced. This issue was known
to Kawai for a couple years already. So the tech came by
and after 3 hours he left and the piano seemed OK.
Last week more 5 or 6 keys are showing the problems
again. Meanwhile I called Kawai Director Mr David Reed
and after telling him what is happening with a new piano
purchased 9 months ago, I asked him to exchange for a different piano
and I would pay the difference of price and they could charge me MSRP for mine.
I was desperate to get ride of this CP2. He said that it could not be done,
but that warranty would be OK. He agreed, his words were I understand
that playing with sticky keys is deplorable, but it will be fixed with the warranty.
I will be calling tech again and I do not believe that will be the last time.
So,how could I go and give a check to Kawai of 25000 for a new piano? And please don't
come with the "you had bad luck". Yes I did but Kawai quality stinks, and by being aware
of this problem they should not sell me this piano

Cmlpires

Last edited by Ken Knapp; 05/20/19 07:17 PM.
(ad) SWEETWATER Lowest Prices
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850345 05/20/19 09:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
A
Alan LJ Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
I understand your concerns as a Kawai user also. Especially since I'm often praising them.

What can be misleading is that we are sometimes expressing a superiority in terms of designs only but not in terms of quality control, and that sometimes we speak of earlier era of Kawai's history. But as good as their designs are, it doesn't mean that quality control doesn't suck, if you pardon my french laugh

I've heard that when Kawai shifted production from Japan to a more cost effective solution elsewhere in countries with cheaper labour, quality control went downhill... This is very sad and shouldn't be excused, nor is the problem should be diminished.

So you are very right to express your irritation.

At any rate, if you believe their products are often superiors in terms of design, these quality concerns should be even voiced more often as a mean to make them strive for the best and not cater to the lowest.


Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: Alan LJ] #2850350 05/20/19 09:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
C
cmlpires Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
The issue I have is that they were aware of these pianos having this problem. They still sell them and expect that the warranty will make the customer happy. Well I had a party at my place , we do it every year in Spring/Summer, and about 22 people of my friends came by. The majority play piano, and my old teacher has been playing for 40 years. I told them the problem, and my teacher said "great opportunity to every body play and see how they react when they find a sticky key". Of course it was funny to see the reaction.
But in the end the 10 women were going to the piano and write down the make of it. I said why, it is Kawai. Their answer was I will not buy one!
About the French Je parle Francais trés bien.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850351 05/20/19 09:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
I'm leery of this, too.
Originally Posted by cmlpires
I decided post in this forum because I am tired of some of the members here to exalt the supreme quality of Kawai pianos. ... Cmlpires
The pianos that I've tried in the showroom were good. But I don't own a Kawai so I have no experience with their performance years after the sale ... or even days after.

There have been frequent posts here about quality problems. I find it distressing.

There is no excuse for poor quality. None.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850357 05/20/19 09:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 217
J
JJHLH Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 217
I agree there is absolutely no excuse for poor quality control on an expensive instrument. I’m sorry you had to endure so many service call to try to fix the problems and they are still unresolved. You undoubtedly looked forward to this and were disappointed. Thank you for letting us know.


Yamaha N1X, P-515. Garritan CFX. Genelec 8331 monitors.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850360 05/20/19 10:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,446
CyberGene Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
Online Content
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,446
cmlpires, apologies for being entirely off-topic but there's no need for you to manually put a new line to fit sentences on the screen (or at least I think that's the reason why you put them). You can write multiple sentences one after another without putting new lines and each user's browser will automatically wrap words to fit user's screen, regardless of its current size. One puts new lines when starting a new paragraph only.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850362 05/20/19 10:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 668
D
David B Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 668
I like how Alan identifies the difference between design and quality control.

Having owned three Kawai pianos (ES100, ES8, MP11SE) I would agree with the idea that quality control is Kawai's weaker department. I had a quality control issue with two MP11SE's. Kawai ended up giving me a rebate on the second one rather than replace it.

I would rate it like this:

Kawai Design: A+

They have the best non-hybrid actions available and one of the best hybrids available. wink

Kawai Customer Service: A+

Kawai (North America) customer service is the standard in which all other manufactures should strive for. It's obvious even in the OP of this thread. Customer service is quick to respond and easy to access. I've called Kawai customer service and talked to the same people that cmipries (the original poster) talked to. All my questions were answered, any problem I had (not many) was fixed immediately, insightful and technically relevant information was shared.

My biggest concern switching to Yamaha was regarding customer service and I've already been disappointed in Yamaha not living up to my Kawai experience. I called Yamaha for some basic information about my N1X and nobody could help me. I talked to one of probably many phone jockeys who wasn't really even familiar with my piano. How I wished I could have talked to Jaun or Alan from Kawai.

Kawai Quality Control: B-

I don't know if their quality control is significantly worse than other companies, but in my limited experience, it's the weakest of the three categories mentioned. However, I think their customer service makes up for it.

I had a problem with my N1X. When I first took it out of the box I noticed some fine scratches in the music rest. I dismissed it because I was so happy to have the N1X and I figured it's only the music rest and not the main body. After a month of so the scratches started to bother me more and my dealer was unwilling to help me because it was something that should have been pointed out immediately. Yamaha customer service was not much help for me either. I won't get into the details, but I definitely missed being a Kawai customer. Thankfully, my issue is a relatively minor one, but it does remind me of my concern over having a real issue arise with the N1X, and having to rely on Yamaha's customer service.

To the original poster I'd say, hang in there. You're dealing with he best costumer service in the industry (IMO) and I'm sure if you like your CP2 design, Kawai North America will get it working right.

God Bless,
David


Last edited by David B; 05/20/19 10:13 AM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-42 Completed
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850368 05/20/19 10:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
A
Alan LJ Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by cmlpires
The issue I have is that they were aware of these pianos having this problem. They still sell them and expect that the warranty will make the customer happy.


That is unacceptable practice indeed. As for me, I cannot say because I own an MP9500. It's "old" tech that was still assembled in Japan with obvious care and sturdiness in mind from a long gone era back when industries were less, or simply had less possibilities of finding/needing ways to cut corners as much as possible. Kawai really have to do something about it before it really starts to tarnish their reputation.

Losing reputation is very easy, getting it back is tough. And that's certainly not the first time I hear such concerns here.

Originally Posted by cmlpires
About the French Je parle Francais trés bien


How nice wink Comment se fait-il? Si tu parles français si bien que cela, alors je n'ose imaginer toutes les insultes comme "bordel de merde!" que ton Kawai a dû prendre dans la figure!! grin


Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: David B] #2850374 05/20/19 10:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
A
Alan LJ Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by David B
Kawai Customer Service: A+


I didn't know Kawai had such a good customer service, that's very rare nowadays as it's one of the department where companies sadly cuts corners the most easily.

Have fun with your N1X, they're fantastic beasts smile Did you try its Kawai equivalent? How was it? What made you favor the Yamaha?


Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: Alan LJ] #2850378 05/20/19 10:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 668
D
David B Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 668
Originally Posted by Alan LJ


Have fun with your N1X, they're fantastic beasts smile Did you try its Kawai equivalent? How was it? What made you favor the Yamaha?


In the interest of keeping this thread on topic, I can PM you that information if you'd like.

Last edited by David B; 05/20/19 10:43 AM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-42 Completed
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850379 05/20/19 10:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
A
Alan LJ Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
Feel free smile I'd be glad to


Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: David B] #2850380 05/20/19 10:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
C
cmlpires Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
David
You are right. I just finished talking to David Reid asking him to replace the whole keyboard, versus repairing each key, and he agreed to do it. Wonderful day and I am starting to see things more positive. Thank You David Reid!

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850383 05/20/19 10:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,367
Tyrone Slothrop Online Content
8000 Post Club Member
Online Content
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 8,367
Originally Posted by cmlpires
David
You are right. I just finished talking to David Reid asking him to replace the whole keyboard, versus repairing each key, and he agreed to do it. Wonderful day and I am starting to see things more positive. Thank You David Reid!

If you are feeling more positive, I suggest your ask the moderators to change the title of your thread to better reflect your current revised views in this issue.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: Alan LJ] #2850389 05/20/19 11:03 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
C
cmlpires Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
Alan,
Parce que j’aie étudié en France, Sorbonne, je me suis marié avec une Québécoise, et j’ai vécu à Montréal. Seulement mon keybord est un problème pour écrire Français.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850391 05/20/19 11:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 668
D
David B Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 668
Originally Posted by cmlpires
David
You are right. I just finished talking to David Reid asking him to replace the whole keyboard, versus repairing each key, and he agreed to do it. Wonderful day and I am starting to see things more positive. Thank You David Reid!


thumb


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-42 Completed
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850392 05/20/19 11:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 661
Granyala Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 661
Originally Posted by cmlpires
I will be calling tech again and I do not believe that will be the last time.

That sucks.
Not sure about your country but in my country, if 3 repairs fail within the warranty period, you can just demand your money back and be done with it.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2850393 05/20/19 11:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
C
cmlpires Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
Tyrone;
Agree. It should be simple like"Kawai quality". I am new and have trouble to do things in the forum. I never complained about anything ,because I guess I have bee lucky until this issue.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850416 05/20/19 11:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
A
Alan LJ Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
A
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
I don't see your thread title as being offensive to Kawai and that it would need a change. If anything, I read it like "Kawai: Is the quality lives up to their reputation or is there a lack of it?".
It's a valid concern rightfully expressed, it's not at all like you were going "Kawai: don't buy!! they're crap!"

Last edited by Alan LJ; 05/20/19 11:45 AM.

Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850470 05/20/19 02:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
@Alan: Why would you imagine anything as being "offensive to Kawai"? And why would that require a change?

@Granyala: Where do you live that offers "if 3 repairs fail within the warranty period, you can just demand your money back".

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850471 05/20/19 02:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,899
peterws Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,899
I guess the obvious is - high quality assurance = low quality service in the rare event of a problem. Sometimes even denial, which makes the blood boil.

Low q.a. = High quality service in the expected event of problems. Kawai know this is going on, and probably have a balancing mechanism to maximise financial aspects of all this.

Now, if the balancing mechanism goes belly up through low quality, then . . . . . something might change!


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850476 05/20/19 02:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
peter ... If I understand you properly, you're saying that Kawai can make up for quality problems by providing service after the sale. Is that right?
If so I really have to wonder how this can work? Only if field service is REALLY cheap. And usually it is not.

It's generally cheaper to prevent the defect before it happens.
Next best is to catch the defect before it escapes the factory.
Worst is to pay for the repair after delivery.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850479 05/20/19 02:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
R
RogerRL Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
I have to say I went though a disappointing experience over the last week. I ordered an MP11SE online since I couldn't find any locally.

When it arrived it looked like it went through heck and back, and I could hear rattling inside, so I filmed myself opening the box. The 75lb instrument is held in place with 3 rather small piece of styrofoam. They were broken into tiny bits (the size of my fist), and the slab was badly dented in many places. In particular the section by the power switch was deformed to the point that I questioned whether it could be plugged in. The keys were held in place by a strip of tape, but the mechanism was so damaged that dozens of the white keys stuck when pressed down, and some wouldn't move at all.

I chalked it up to bad luck with UPS, contacted the vendor and arranged to return it, which they did at no cost to me. I resolved to buy "locally", and found one 2 1/2 hours away. When they wheeled the box out it box looked like it took very similar damage. I checked it before leaving and the slab seemed okay. When I got home I noticed there were two dents on the case, and again, the styrofoam was all broken up, though not as bad as the first one. The action is fine and I've decided to keep it rather than face the hours of work and driving entailed in replacing it. This is clearly a systemic problem - see the next paragraph.

The dent on mine - I've seen this EXACT dent on used mp11se on sale. The fourth picture on this listing looks exactly like a dent on mine. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kawai-MP11SE-Stage-Piano-SNR-3508/223478990631?epid=3023981734&hash=item340862c727:g:EGcAAOSw59Jcr5VV The first one that I received from UPS also had this dent, but on both sides, among others far worse. I'm convinced I've seen this dent in other ads as well, but can't find any at the moment, so perhaps I am mistaken.

There's something wrong with the packing materials. It's clear from the box's externals that they encounter less than white glove service (most of the box is blackened, several punctures and clear dents), and the paucity of styrofoam and the low quality (it is easy to break apart), means that the instruments are getting damaged in transit. In comparison, a year ago I bought a CA78, and that thing was very well packed. All empty space was filled and there was no way for anything to break short of dropping the box off of a lift gate or something.

It's a great instrument; why pack it so that it gets damaged in shipping? They saved a buck or two on Styrofoam, but at what cost? I adore the brand, but this seems to be a large QC oversight.


Shigaru Kawai SK-2, Kawai MP11SE
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850519 05/20/19 05:54 PM
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,154
TomLC Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,154
[align:right][/align]
Originally Posted by cmlpires
David
You are right. I just finished talking to David Reid asking him to replace the whole keyboard, versus repairing each key, and he agreed to do it. Wonderful day and I am starting to see things more positive. Thank You David Reid!


As I would have expected from David. BTW, his name is David [/i]Reed[i].


[Linked Image]

Novice with a Novus.....?
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: RogerRL] #2850526 05/20/19 06:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
This is not a QC problem. It's a package design problem.
Originally Posted by RogerRL
There's something wrong with the packing materials. ... means that the instruments are getting damaged in transit.
It's a great instrument; why pack it so that it gets damaged in shipping?
I adore the brand, but this seems to be a large QC oversight.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850530 05/20/19 06:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,788
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,788
Hello cmlpires, welcome to the forum.

I'm sorry to read about the issues you have been experiencing with your CP2, however I'm glad to read that you are being well looked after by Kawai America's support staff, and am confident that they will make every effort to resolve the situation.

By the way, looking at your profile I see that you (also?) own a Kawai CA67, is this correct?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: MacMacMac] #2850532 05/20/19 06:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,788
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,788
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
This is not a QC problem. It's a package design problem.


I'm more inclined to think that it's a "rough handling during shipping" problem.

Here is an authentic re-enactment of common package handling policies, courtesy of Techmoan.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850539 05/20/19 07:39 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 175
B
BigIslandGuy Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 175
First off, for the op, so sorry to read about all your woes. Even if the after sale service is perfect, it still costs you wasted time and time cannot be replaced.

Regarding arrival condition, I am happy to say that the MP11SE I recently acquired from Sweetwater arrived here in Hawaii via UPS in perfect condition. Even the outer box Sweetwater packed it in was still in good shape. And, so far, no defects in the piano.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2850553 05/20/19 08:28 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
@KJ: You have to expect rough handling by delivery services. Packaging must be sufficient to deal with such handling.
Yes, I hate the gorillas who handle my luggage ... and their cousins who handle my packages.
But there's nothing for it. Pack accordingly.


Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2850763 05/21/19 01:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 34
T
TylerMorgan1 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 34
I recently bought an MP11SE and have some issues with headphone static in the left ear and also no sound in the left ear via line out. See the thread here:

http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2845479/kawai-mp11se-headphone-static.html

I've decided to ship the keyboard back to MF and have them send a replacement. Crossing my fingers that there will be no issues. The MP11SE came in a pretty sturdy package with little evidence of shipping abuse, but there was a small hole on the side of the package where the headphone and line out jacks are, so I can't really rule out shipping as the cause. I find it hard to believe that my issues would not have been noticed during quality control, so my guess is that some wires came loose along the hundreds of miles that the keyboard had to be shipped to me (not to mention the thousands of miles from Indonesia to Kansas for its trip to MF).

I'm currently procrastinating on sending it back due to the fact that I love playing it so much. It's so discouraging given the awesomeness of the instrument itself. Without these types of issues, the MP11SE would be almost perfect in my opinion. I love the feel and the tones of the keyboard, and it is such a huge upgrade over my original Yamaha DGX 650. I'm really looking forward to getting the replacement and settling in with the MP11SE. However, if I have any initial issues with the replacement, I may begin to consider the Yamaha P515 instead.

Hopefully Kawai can identify the issue, whether it is shipping or QC. Even if the issue is shipping, there should be some steps that Kawai could take to increase the chances of safe passage even in the midst of harsh handling. After all, the MP11SE is meant to be a stage piano, so it should be able to withstand some bumps on the road. Plus, its frame appears to be made of all metal, which should lend some extra durability.

Does anyone know when Kawai began making the MP11 / MP11SE in Indonesia? Or has it always been made there?

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2850928 05/21/19 11:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,788
Kawai James Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,788
Hello Tyler,

If you have any concerns with the instrument, it's probably best to request a replacement from the retailer.

Originally Posted by TylerMorgan1
Does anyone know when Kawai began making the MP11 / MP11SE in Indonesia? Or has it always been made there?


Kawai DPs have been manufactured in Indonesia for at least 15 years - likely more.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851017 05/22/19 07:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 620
J
Jitin Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 620
I’m sorry but , the amount of quality issues I’ve seen , with kawai digital, I would not feel spending my hard earned money on them.


Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851022 05/22/19 07:44 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,494
Doug M. Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,494
Originally Posted by cmlpires
I decided post in this forum because I am
tired of some of the members here to exalt
the supreme quality of Kawai pianos. I purchased a
new Kawai CP2. Now all the nightmare started.
They brought in the new CP2, placed it in my favorite
place and and after plugging to the electricity, nothing
happened. So I ask them, if they were to pick up the other
new one in their warehouse. Well he said, I have seen
this before and I shall open the back and see what
goes on. Indeed there were two white plastic small
boxes that were disconnected. So the piano finally
start working and they left. Two weeks later I tried
to connect my JBL studio speakers, but no sound was
coming from the output of the CP2. As well the MP3
output in the display panel was not working.
Called the tech support and the technician told me
that the connections were the problem. He fixed it and
I called Kawai to check the serial number and to
whom they first sold the piano. It was OK. It was new.
3 weeks later some keys start to become sticky just
like there was chewing gum under them. Tech support
came to my house and replace the double sided tape
in the keys that were having problem. He left.
One month later, more keys start to have the same issue.
I called Mr Juan Escobar from Kawai and he told me that all
the 88 keys needed to be replaced. This issue was known
to Kawai for a couple years already. So the tech came by
and after 3 hours he left and the piano seemed OK.
Last week more 5 or 6 keys are showing the problems
again. Meanwhile I called Kawai Director Mr David Reed
and after telling him what is happening with a new piano
purchased 9 months ago, I asked him to exchange for a different piano
and I would pay the difference of price and they could charge me MSRP for mine.
I was desperate to get ride of this CP2. He said that it could not be done,
but that warranty would be OK. He agreed, his words were I understand
that playing with sticky keys is deplorable, but it will be fixed with the warranty.
I will be calling tech again and I do not believe that will be the last time.
So,how could I go and give a check to Kawai of 25000 for a new piano? And please don't
come with the "you had bad luck". Yes I did but Kawai quality stinks, and by being aware
of this problem they should not sell me this piano

Cmlpires


Hi Cmlpires,

From a technical perspective: Newly released products (especially first batches) often have problems. The fact your unit arrived faulty might be because of bugs in the original manufacturing process back in 2014.
If you purchased a model from one of the first batches of stock i.e., one that had been sat in the warehouse since 2014, then this possibly explains it.
Obviously when this happens to anybody (no matter the brand) it is very frustrating. But yes, you also could just have unfortunately received a unit that failed to be picked up by QC.

Yamaha's P515 has had multiple issues since it was released this year, so Kawai isn't the only one that has these teething issues in manufacturing. Would depend on how long your vendor had the instrument in storage (or how long his distributor had kept that unit in storage for before shipping it out to the vendor).

Be aware that whilst one can have sympathy for you, this is not a Kawai bashing forum---we love their instruments and many of us are owners who brought without faults.
If you have questions to ask Kawai James i.e., something that would be of constructive help to you, by all means post. Posting to spread rumours about Kawai build quality is maybe understandable (due to frustration) but I'm not a fan of this kind of post.

Personally, I pay little attention to rants by users who have received a bad unit because I understand manufacturing process a little and know these things happen. It's poor form to assume your personal experience will be shared by the majority of Kawai owners!
Kawai quality in general doesn't stink at all, although with specific instruments, forum members have reported action issues. Like I said, that has happened to Yamaha too.
In fact, Nord decided to purchase Kawai RHIII actions over say the Yamaha NWX action for use in it's latest Nord Grand Stage piano. So obviously Nord don't think Kawai actions are overly poor in build quality.

My MP7 is built like a tank and it hasn't gone wrong once. Compared to plastic stage pianos, my MP7 is far less likely to get damaged by my nephews and nieces. That said, when I've brought something new and it has gone wrong, I too have been annoyed enough to complain to the vendor.


Kind regards,

~Doug.

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/22/19 07:54 AM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851033 05/22/19 08:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
I, too, don't like the rants. But "these kind of things happen" is no excuse. There is no excuse for poor quality. None.

And think back over the last dozen years ...

Complaints about Rolands are rare (though they did go through a bad period with keyboard dandruff eight or so years ago)
Complaints about Yamahas have been rare.
Complaints about Kawai pianos are rife.

Kawai stands out. And cmlpires is screwed. I don't like the rant. But I sympathize with his situation.
Lucky for Jitin ... he chose avoidance.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: MacMacMac] #2851054 05/22/19 08:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
J
jamiecw Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 515
Originally Posted by MacMacMac

Lucky for Jitin ... he chose avoidance.


Jiltin isn’t alone, I too was eyeing either the ES8 or MP11SE before finally concluding on the P515 and the deciding factor was just that, avoidance and the potential hustle.

However, Sod’s law, fast forward less than a couple months of owning the P515 and the triple pedal (the sustain pedal) developed an annoying squeak. Retailer asked me to send it back so they can try and fix it but I opted a DIY rite and I pulled it off..this time. Had it been the actual DP...I’d be screaming on the rooftops about Yamaha QC smile

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851072 05/22/19 09:46 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,824
D
dmd Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,824
I also have had issues with the ES8 (some keys not sounding periodically after 2 years) but I sold it, purchased a Yamaha P515 … returned the P515 because I could not live with the sound …. and repurchased the ES8 because I then realized what I had with the ES8.

Potential for problems did not sway me for an instant from purchasing another ES8. The sound and keyboard touch ES8 was that important to me.



The problem with purchasing digital pianos, especially your first one, is that you do not know what "good" is.

Usually, your first one is never good enough because you have nothing to compare it to.

I was the same way. I went through digital pianos always searching for what I thought they should sound like.

That search ended when I experienced the ES8. I had found it.

I then took a chance on the high praise with the rhetoric about the MP11SE and my experience with the Kawai product line (I had others) and went for it.

I have been rewarded with an excellent piano that is an absolute pleasure to play each day.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Focal Professional CMS 40 near-field monitors, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs (Seldom Used)
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: Doug M.] #2851138 05/22/19 11:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 217
J
JJHLH Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 217
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Be aware that whilst one can have sympathy for you, this is not a Kawai bashing forum---we love their instruments and many of us are owners who brought without faults.
If you have questions to ask Kawai James i.e., something that would be of constructive help to you, by all means post. Posting to spread rumours about Kawai build quality is maybe understandable (due to frustration) but I'm not a fan of this kind of post.

Personally, I pay little attention to rants by users who have received a bad unit because I understand manufacturing process a little and know these things happen. It's poor form to assume your personal experience will be shared by the majority of Kawai owners!


I respectfully disagree with this. The OP was simply sharing his experience of purchasing an expensive product that he was disappointed with. This is a piano forum after all, and we should feel free to discuss negatives as well as positives. I find such information very helpful when it comes to influencing my purchasing decisions, as long as it’s done in a respectful manner, which I think the OP did.


Yamaha N1X, P-515. Garritan CFX. Genelec 8331 monitors.
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851151 05/22/19 12:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 593
K
Kbeaumont Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
K
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 593
Yes, I want to know the issues too. That way I find out how the dealer and the manufacturer handle issues. And by the amount of times I see the exact same issue pop up.
The very last thing I would want is to fork out $2,000+ for a DP and find out that it has an issue that is fairly common and that I'm basically screwed because I believed all the hype here and bought one. Finding Kawai digital pianos in a show room isn't exactly easy. Most people are quite able to decide for themselves if an issue is common or rare by following ALL the threads negative and positive.


A long long time ago, I can still remember
How that music used to make me smile....
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: Kawai James] #2851491 05/23/19 12:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
C
cmlpires Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
Hi James, I had my first Kawai CA67. It a few keys that were louder than others although the piano was new. I get tired of it and traded in with the CP2

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: Doug M.] #2851496 05/23/19 12:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
C
cmlpires Offline OP
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
C
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 7
Doug, I was not venting my displeasure with Kawai. In order for you to understand I must tell you that prior to the CP2 I bought a CA67. I really liked the sound and the action of it. However it started having a problem with a few keys that were louder than others. I got fed up and traded in for a CP2. Same dealer and interesting enough he has a floor CP2 that is still working fine. I just got the wrong one. But this experience has been positive because David Reed of Kawai is replacing the keyboard. If I did not have this support I would be upset and probably ranting in the forum.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: MacMacMac] #2851497 05/23/19 12:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 225
Emery Wang Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 225
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I, too, don't like the rants. But "these kind of things happen" is no excuse. There is no excuse for poor quality. None.

And think back over the last dozen years ...

Complaints about Rolands are rare (though they did go through a bad period with keyboard dandruff eight or so years ago)
Complaints about Yamahas have been rare.
Complaints about Kawai pianos are rife.

Kawai stands out. And cmlpires is screwed. I don't like the rant. But I sympathize with his situation.
Lucky for Jitin ... he chose avoidance.

Hi Mac. Love your screen name and logo, btw. So I wonder if part of your observations have something to do with the number of keyboards sold. If not many forum posters use Rolands, more buy Yamahas, and even more buy Kawais, then Kawais would have more complaints even if the percentage of bad keyboards was the same across all manufacturers. Any idea as to which brand is more common in the forum?

My MP11SE has been rock solid for 2 years, btw, with nary a squeak or wiggle.

Last edited by Emery Wang; 05/23/19 12:43 PM.

Kawai MP11SE
Kawai GL10
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851500 05/23/19 12:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 25
V
vb321 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
V
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 25
It's also worth noting that in North America, the warranty on the MP series and VPC1 is only 1 year labor, 3 parts. Something that rather dampens the "oh, but the customer service is top-notch" point for me.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851509 05/23/19 01:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 458
P
PianoStartsAt33 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
P
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 458
I agree that their quality control is worse than those of Casio and Roland.


"No succes of failure matters when it's about true vocation". Nicolás Gómez Dávila
“The goal of music is to help people live”. Francis Bebey

Roland LX-706, Korg D1

YoutubeChannel
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: Emery Wang] #2851569 05/23/19 05:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
I have no information about how many pianos are sold.
The postings in the Prices Paid thread are nothing more than a sample.
Code
Year . . .Casio . Kawai . Roland . Yamaha
2007 . . . 11 . . . 19 . . . 29 . . .45
2008 . . . 17 . . . .4 . . . 20 . . .45
2009 . . . 23 . . . 12 . . . 29 . . .68
2010 . . . 28 . . . 43 . . . 40 . . .56
2011 . . . 10 . . . 55 . . . 27 . . .39
2012 . . . 22 . . . 38 . . . .8 . . .26
2013 . . . 19 . . . 47 . . . .7 . . .21
2014 . . . 21 . . . 43 . . . 14 . . .10
2015 . . . 17 . . . 42 . . . .3 . . .24
2016 . . . .3 . . . 27 . . . 19 . . .16
2017 . . . .6 . . . 26 . . . 18 . . .13
2018 . . . .5 . . . 22 . . . 10 . . ..9
2019 . . . .1 . . . 14 . . . .6 . . .21
Expressed as percentages:
Code
Year . . .Casio . Kawai . Roland . Yamaha
2007 . . . 11% . . 18% . . .28% . . .43%
2008 . . . 20% . . .5% . . .23% . . .52%
2009 . . . 17% . . .9% . . .22% . . .52%
2010 . . . 17% . . 26% . . .24% . . .34%
2011 . . . .8% . . 42% . . .21% . . .30%
2012 . . . 23% . . 40% . . . 9% . . .28%
2013 . . . 20% . . 50% . . . 7% . . .22%
2014 . . . 24% . . 49% . . .16% . . .11%
2015 . . . 20% . . 49% . . . 3% . . .28%
2016 . . . .5% . . 42% . . .29% . . .25%
2017 . . . 10% . . 41% . . .29% . . .21%
2018 . . . 11% . . 48% . . .22% . . .20%
2019 . . . .2% . . 33% . . .14% . . .50%
There is no reason to conclude that sales across the market follow those percentages.
But people might believe so!
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Hi Mac. Love your screen name and logo, btw. So I wonder if part of your observations have something to do with the number of keyboards sold. If not many forum posters use Rolands, more buy Yamahas, and even more buy Kawais, then Kawais would have more complaints even if the percentage of bad keyboards was the same across all manufacturers. Any idea as to which brand is more common in the forum?


Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851571 05/23/19 05:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 225
Emery Wang Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 225
Wow, nice job Mac. You've gone above and beyond.


Kawai MP11SE
Kawai GL10
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851580 05/23/19 06:44 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 620
J
Jitin Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 620
Mac: you the real MVP

Also from what I gather kawai is not the highest selling based on your numbers so the argument that kawai digital has more users in this form thus more complaints can be discarded


Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: Jitin] #2851581 05/23/19 06:54 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
Probably true ... but the data does not correlate the number of buyers to the number of complainers ...
Originally Posted by Jitin
Also from what I gather kawai is not the highest selling based on your numbers so the argument that kawai digital has more users in this form thus more complaints can be discarded

But no one knows whether the complainers have even posted their purchases in the Prices Paid thread.
And no one knows whether people who posted in Prices Paid have stayed around to post a complaint.

They don't even tell us the market split across the makers, never mind the relative quality of the brands.

Conclusion: The data is not adequate to reach conclusions beyond what the data represent.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851617 05/23/19 10:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 335
C
ColoRodney Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 335
I've had my Kawai ES8 for over three years, and gig with it quite often, sometimes in dusty dance spaces. I have had no mechanical problems with it until recently, when one set of notes in the middle (highly used part) of the keyboard started not always sounding. This happened all the time on my Roland RD-200 back in the day, so I knew I likely needed to clean under the contact strips or replace them.

Using information from this site, I was able to open it up and clean below the rubber contact strips. This keyboard has a LOT more screws holding it together than the old Roland did!

Unfortunately, that did not solve the problem. I took it to the nearest Kawai authorized dealer, and once he heard my story, he said "sounds like you need new rubber contacts. Kawai Technical will send them to you. I could put them in at $60/hour in two weeks, or, since you know how to open it up, you could have them send the strips to you and do it yourself."

So I contacted the US Kawai Tech department, and they were extremely helpful. The rubber strips are on their way, and I'll be back in business soon after they arrive.

No complaints about Kawai build quality on this unit.


Rodney Sauer
Kawai KG-2E • Kawai ES8
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: Emery Wang] #2851690 05/24/19 07:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,137
M
Morodiene Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,137
Originally Posted by Emery Wang
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I, too, don't like the rants. But "these kind of things happen" is no excuse. There is no excuse for poor quality. None.

And think back over the last dozen years ...

Complaints about Rolands are rare (though they did go through a bad period with keyboard dandruff eight or so years ago)
Complaints about Yamahas have been rare.
Complaints about Kawai pianos are rife.

Kawai stands out. And cmlpires is screwed. I don't like the rant. But I sympathize with his situation.
Lucky for Jitin ... he chose avoidance.

Hi Mac. Love your screen name and logo, btw. So I wonder if part of your observations have something to do with the number of keyboards sold. If not many forum posters use Rolands, more buy Yamahas, and even more buy Kawais, then Kawais would have more complaints even if the percentage of bad keyboards was the same across all manufacturers. Any idea as to which brand is more common in the forum?

My MP11SE has been rock solid for 2 years, btw, with nary a squeak or wiggle.

I suspect this, but even if it's a case where Kawais are a bit more "finicky" I think it's well worth the trade off. My piano tech was in to work on my acoustic and saw my MP11 and asked to play it and he really loved it (he's also a classical concert pianist). I've owned mine since they first came out (was that 2014?) and it's been solid as well except for the pedal unit which they fixed with MP11/SE.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851761 05/24/19 09:52 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,371
M
maurus Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,371
I suspect the same. I've owned all kinds of brands, and my Kawai VPC1 works flawlessly for several years now. I would suppose Kawai's wooden actions are quite reliable, and a joy to play... but so are Yamaha's better actions.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851763 05/24/19 10:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 438
M
Morten Olsson Online Content
Full Member
Online Content
Full Member
M
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 438
Took delivery of a VPC1 yesterday so obviously I can't speak to the robustness over time - but initial impressions is that this thing is very, very well put together.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851777 05/24/19 11:03 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2
S
suarec Offline
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
S
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 2
I had a kawai mp7, with less than 1 year I began to have problems with their keys, exactly as you mention the keys that stopped ringing or that sounded very noisy, repaired and sold, I lost the confidence in the mp7 se play live, buy mp7 se thinking that this manufacturing fault would be corrected. I have been with mp7 for 4 months and I have problems with the 8 keys of the continuous nightmare. I think kawai should give an explanation to its users, for the most part it is a work tool.

My question is, when they repair the rubber sensors, do they put others exactly the same? Kawai did not solve this problem with better quality rubber sensors? In a few months I will have the same problem? it may end up changing the brand that pity

Last edited by suarec; 05/24/19 11:08 AM.
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: MacMacMac] #2851790 05/24/19 12:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,899
peterws Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Offline
7000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,899
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
I have no information about how many pianos are sold.
The postings in the Prices Paid thread are nothing more than a sample.
Code
Year . . .Casio . Kawai . Roland . Yamaha
2007 . . . 11 . . . 19 . . . 29 . . .45
2008 . . . 17 . . . .4 . . . 20 . . .45
2009 . . . 23 . . . 12 . . . 29 . . .68
2010 . . . 28 . . . 43 . . . 40 . . .56
2011 . . . 10 . . . 55 . . . 27 . . .39
2012 . . . 22 . . . 38 . . . .8 . . .26
2013 . . . 19 . . . 47 . . . .7 . . .21
2014 . . . 21 . . . 43 . . . 14 . . .10
2015 . . . 17 . . . 42 . . . .3 . . .24
2016 . . . .3 . . . 27 . . . 19 . . .16
2017 . . . .6 . . . 26 . . . 18 . . .13
2018 . . . .5 . . . 22 . . . 10 . . ..9
2019 . . . .1 . . . 14 . . . .6 . . .21
Expressed as percentages:
Code
Year . . .Casio . Kawai . Roland . Yamaha
2007 . . . 11% . . 18% . . .28% . . .43%
2008 . . . 20% . . .5% . . .23% . . .52%
2009 . . . 17% . . .9% . . .22% . . .52%
2010 . . . 17% . . 26% . . .24% . . .34%
2011 . . . .8% . . 42% . . .21% . . .30%
2012 . . . 23% . . 40% . . . 9% . . .28%
2013 . . . 20% . . 50% . . . 7% . . .22%
2014 . . . 24% . . 49% . . .16% . . .11%
2015 . . . 20% . . 49% . . . 3% . . .28%
2016 . . . .5% . . 42% . . .29% . . .25%
2017 . . . 10% . . 41% . . .29% . . .21%
2018 . . . 11% . . 48% . . .22% . . .20%
2019 . . . .2% . . 33% . . .14% . . .50%
There is no reason to conclude that sales across the market follow those percentages.
But people might believe so!


This would suggest strongly that people on this forum who buy, are influenced by the opinions of others strongly. 2018 was a depressing year for DP manufacturers here, few members recorded their sales. We must've slagged 'em all off . . . .Bet the VST lot did well!


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

"[Linked Image]"
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: peterws] #2851806 05/24/19 12:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,790
G
Gombessa Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
G
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,790
Originally Posted by peterws

This would suggest strongly that people on this forum who buy, are influenced by the opinions of others strongly. 2018 was a depressing year for DP manufacturers here, few members recorded their sales. We must've slagged 'em all off . . . .Bet the VST lot did well!


IIRC, for much of 2018, the "Prices Paid" thread was moved within a "Master Sticky Topics" thread. Which was well-intentioned, but resulted in being completely hidden, and thus, undiscoverable and unused. When it was moved back to its own sticky post, activity picked up again.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2851957 05/24/19 11:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 456
M
McBuster Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 456
I too have had an issue with Kawai. My piano was finally replaced by the Dealer. At their cost. Not Kawai's. The new one was better. My current CA67 is all I need right now. And sounds great and plays great. I do miss the soundboard a little tho.

In their defense, with all the R/D that they have pursued and features brought to the marketplace, I think they have done a reasonable job to ship a good product. Designed in Japan. Manufactured in Indonesia. Shipped by sea all over the world. Then by truck(s) to parts unknown. One has to recognize these are not produced by the 100,000's. Some models not even more than a few thousand. Just these facts alone make it quite difficult to manage it all. Plus, have the instrument endure all the rigors of shipping. And, all the folks involved have to turn a profit. That means the margins Kawai experiences, may not be -that- great. Certainly not like an iPhone commands.

Here we tend to chatter of the many problems experienced. And if it were not for Kawai James involvement which makes the Kawai a popular discussion, Kawai would probably be no more discussed than any of the other brands. It begs the question how many happy owners do not even know of thos Board or even post of their satisfaction. That would be an interesting number to know.

Maybe one day, I will try out the Novus NV10. If one is going to lust for a thing, why not turn your attentions to something you can not afford. Tee hee ...

Last edited by McBuster; 05/24/19 11:48 PM.

Jon ...

Kawai CA67
A Tired, Retired, Dreamer ...
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: David B] #2851975 05/25/19 02:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
I must have missed this last week. Having now read it I respond now ...

This is pernicious in several ways ...
Originally Posted by David B
I like how Alan identifies the difference between design and quality control.
Quality control is bullcrap. I thought we got rid of that nonsense decades ago.

Quality is not controlled.
Processes are controlled.
And processes that affect quality extend far beyond a product and its manufacturing.

Processes that are relevant to quality must be everywhere in a company, not just in manufacturing ...
- Market evaluation
- Product conception
- Product design/development
- Product life-testing
- Supplier management
- Incoming inspection
- Field service/support
- and more
Consumers see only the product/result, and might falsely attribute product quality to this fictitious "quality control" department.
But it is not so. Quality flaws in a product or service can originate in any part of the maker's operations.
Quality is not a "department". Quality is the result of effective processes that span the entire operation.

Regarding the A+ you give to Kawai's actions ... You say these are great designs. But are they?
Why are there so many reported flaws? And are you sure that the defects can be attributed to manufacturing?
Well, it might be so ... but they might instead be design defects.
When a product is hard to manufacture correctly ... and it then fails often ... this is a DESIGN defect.
So maybe the B- you give their manufacturing should be raised, and the A+ design lowered.

But we cannot know because we cannot see behind the curtain.
Hence we ought to be reticent about where to assign praise and where to place blame.

Regarding the A+ you give their customer service ...
This seems to reflect the perception that when things go wrong Kawai makes things right. This is laudable.
But it's also expensive. And sometimes unsustainable.
Better would be to get things right the first time, with no need to make things right afterwards.

THAT'S THE MARK OF QUALITY.

This is not a rip on Kawai. It's a reaction to the misunderstanding of quality ... and of the myth called "quality control".

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: MacMacMac] #2852043 05/25/19 09:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 66
J
jon123 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Quality control is bullcrap. I thought we got rid of that nonsense decades ago.

Quality is not controlled.
Processes are controlled.
And processes that affect quality extend far beyond a product and its manufacturing.

---

This is not a rip on Kawai. It's a reaction to the misunderstanding of quality ... and of the myth called "quality control".

What you described in your post is quality assurance. However, quality control is not a myth. It's one of the processes under quality assurance.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2852050 05/25/19 09:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 888
C
Colin Miles Online Content
500 Post Club Member
Online Content
500 Post Club Member
C
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 888
Sadly my experience of Kawai customer service here in the UK was very negative.


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2852051 05/25/19 09:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,870
I'm think about Total Quality.
Quality in EVERY facet of an organization.
Even facility maintenance. Everything.

Quality assurance (QA) has been abused.
In the books it looks good. But in practice, these days, QA is just "testing".
That is, find defects after they've been baked into all of the preceding operations.
Then fix 'em ... at high cost.
Inadequate. Debilitating.

But quite suitable if yours is an undemanding market.
Even more suitable if you have little competition.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: jon123] #2852053 05/25/19 09:22 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 66
J
jon123 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 66
Originally Posted by jon123

What you described in your post is quality assurance. However, quality control is not a myth. It's one of the processes under quality assurance.

Sorry, I was wrong on the last part. Quality control does not fall under quality assurance.

The better term to use for what Mac described would be quality management, which both quality assurance and quality control fall under.

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2852056 05/25/19 09:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 66
J
jon123 Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 66
Interesting side note, Kawai's grand piano facility is ISO 9001 certified, but not it's digital piano facility:
http://www.kawai-global.com/company/history/

Re: Kawai Quality [Re: cmlpires] #2852062 05/25/19 10:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 668
D
David B Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
D
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 668
Quality Control....
Quality Assurance...
Quality management...
Process Control...


crazy


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-42 Completed
Re: Kawai Quality [Re: David B] #2852084 05/25/19 11:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,784
A
ando Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
A
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,784
Originally Posted by David B
Quality Control....
Quality Assurance...
Quality management...
Process Control...


crazy

Yeah, when I read these this, the words "blah, blah, blah" come to mind. What matters is did I get what I expected when I paid for this item?, and would I buy from this company again?

For some, they did, and they would happily buy Kawai again.
For some, they didn't, but their issues were rectified under warranty and they'd still buy from Kawai again.
For others still, they did have issues, which were rectified, but they lost trust in the brand and won't buy Kawai again.
And finally there are some who were thoroughly disappointed and will never buy Kawai again.

There is a fair range of experiences in there. Some people are easy to identify which camp they fall into - but most are somewhere in the middle, feeling unsure themselves of where they stand. Time will tell if the feelings they have change over time. Reading about quality concerns from other owners certainly keeps the flame of doubt burning though - which is why Kawai would be well advised to do all they can to minimise the reputational damage from product defects by giving excellent warranty support, and improve their various production and packaging processes. It seems they are doing pretty well on the former, but there is work to do on the latter.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  Piano World 

Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
Christmas Ornaments Music Theme
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Help determine knuckle-center pin distance
by Apache - 12/08/19 04:37 AM
“Sit-stand desk” type keyboard stand?
by Elphaba - 12/08/19 02:23 AM
Size of notation on the page
by Nikolas - 12/08/19 12:27 AM
1ms audio, can you tell the difference?
by Abdol - 12/07/19 10:18 PM
Looking for Chappell 1886 upright information
by steven_usa - 12/07/19 10:16 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics195,566
Posts2,899,597
Members95,180
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3