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Kawai Quality #2850340
05/20/19 10:13 AM
05/20/19 10:13 AM
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cmlpires Offline OP
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I decided post in this forum because I am
tired of some of the members here to exalt
the supreme quality of Kawai pianos. I purchased a
new Kawai CP2. Now all the nightmare started.
They brought in the new CP2, placed it in my favorite
place and and after plugging to the electricity, nothing
happened. So I ask them, if they were to pick up the other
new one in their warehouse. Well he said, I have seen
this before and I shall open the back and see what
goes on. Indeed there were two white plastic small
boxes that were disconnected. So the piano finally
start working and they left. Two weeks later I tried
to connect my JBL studio speakers, but no sound was
coming from the output of the CP2. As well the MP3
output in the display panel was not working.
Called the tech support and the technician told me
that the connections were the problem. He fixed it and
I called Kawai to check the serial number and to
whom they first sold the piano. It was OK. It was new.
3 weeks later some keys start to become sticky just
like there was chewing gum under them. Tech support
came to my house and replace the double sided tape
in the keys that were having problem. He left.
One month later, more keys start to have the same issue.
I called Mr Juan Escobar from Kawai and he told me that all
the 88 keys needed to be replaced. This issue was known
to Kawai for a couple years already. So the tech came by
and after 3 hours he left and the piano seemed OK.
Last week more 5 or 6 keys are showing the problems
again. Meanwhile I called Kawai Director Mr David Reed
and after telling him what is happening with a new piano
purchased 9 months ago, I asked him to exchange for a different piano
and I would pay the difference of price and they could charge me MSRP for mine.
I was desperate to get ride of this CP2. He said that it could not be done,
but that warranty would be OK. He agreed, his words were I understand
that playing with sticky keys is deplorable, but it will be fixed with the warranty.
I will be calling tech again and I do not believe that will be the last time.
So,how could I go and give a check to Kawai of 25000 for a new piano? And please don't
come with the "you had bad luck". Yes I did but Kawai quality stinks, and by being aware
of this problem they should not sell me this piano

Cmlpires

Last edited by Ken Knapp; 05/20/19 08:17 PM.
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Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850345
05/20/19 10:27 AM
05/20/19 10:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
France, Nantes
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Alan LJ Offline
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I understand your concerns as a Kawai user also. Especially since I'm often praising them.

What can be misleading is that we are sometimes expressing a superiority in terms of designs only but not in terms of quality control, and that sometimes we speak of earlier era of Kawai's history. But as good as their designs are, it doesn't mean that quality control doesn't suck, if you pardon my french laugh

I've heard that when Kawai shifted production from Japan to a more cost effective solution elsewhere in countries with cheaper labour, quality control went downhill... This is very sad and shouldn't be excused, nor is the problem should be diminished.

So you are very right to express your irritation.

At any rate, if you believe their products are often superiors in terms of design, these quality concerns should be even voiced more often as a mean to make them strive for the best and not cater to the lowest.


Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: Alan LJ] #2850350
05/20/19 10:49 AM
05/20/19 10:49 AM
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cmlpires Offline OP
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The issue I have is that they were aware of these pianos having this problem. They still sell them and expect that the warranty will make the customer happy. Well I had a party at my place , we do it every year in Spring/Summer, and about 22 people of my friends came by. The majority play piano, and my old teacher has been playing for 40 years. I told them the problem, and my teacher said "great opportunity to every body play and see how they react when they find a sticky key". Of course it was funny to see the reaction.
But in the end the 10 women were going to the piano and write down the make of it. I said why, it is Kawai. Their answer was I will not buy one!
About the French Je parle Francais trés bien.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850351
05/20/19 10:50 AM
05/20/19 10:50 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,430
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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I'm leery of this, too.
Originally Posted by cmlpires
I decided post in this forum because I am tired of some of the members here to exalt the supreme quality of Kawai pianos. ... Cmlpires
The pianos that I've tried in the showroom were good. But I don't own a Kawai so I have no experience with their performance years after the sale ... or even days after.

There have been frequent posts here about quality problems. I find it distressing.

There is no excuse for poor quality. None.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850357
05/20/19 10:59 AM
05/20/19 10:59 AM
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JJHLH Offline
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I agree there is absolutely no excuse for poor quality control on an expensive instrument. I’m sorry you had to endure so many service call to try to fix the problems and they are still unresolved. You undoubtedly looked forward to this and were disappointed. Thank you for letting us know.


Yamaha N1X, P-515. Garritan CFX. Genelec 8331 monitors.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850360
05/20/19 11:06 AM
05/20/19 11:06 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,198
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
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cmlpires, apologies for being entirely off-topic but there's no need for you to manually put a new line to fit sentences on the screen (or at least I think that's the reason why you put them). You can write multiple sentences one after another without putting new lines and each user's browser will automatically wrap words to fit user's screen, regardless of its current size. One puts new lines when starting a new paragraph only.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850362
05/20/19 11:07 AM
05/20/19 11:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 595
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David B Online content
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I like how Alan identifies the difference between design and quality control.

Having owned three Kawai pianos (ES100, ES8, MP11SE) I would agree with the idea that quality control is Kawai's weaker department. I had a quality control issue with two MP11SE's. Kawai ended up giving me a rebate on the second one rather than replace it.

I would rate it like this:

Kawai Design: A+

They have the best non-hybrid actions available and one of the best hybrids available. wink

Kawai Customer Service: A+

Kawai (North America) customer service is the standard in which all other manufactures should strive for. It's obvious even in the OP of this thread. Customer service is quick to respond and easy to access. I've called Kawai customer service and talked to the same people that cmipries (the original poster) talked to. All my questions were answered, any problem I had (not many) was fixed immediately, insightful and technically relevant information was shared.

My biggest concern switching to Yamaha was regarding customer service and I've already been disappointed in Yamaha not living up to my Kawai experience. I called Yamaha for some basic information about my N1X and nobody could help me. I talked to one of probably many phone jockeys who wasn't really even familiar with my piano. How I wished I could have talked to Jaun or Alan from Kawai.

Kawai Quality Control: B-

I don't know if their quality control is significantly worse than other companies, but in my limited experience, it's the weakest of the three categories mentioned. However, I think their customer service makes up for it.

I had a problem with my N1X. When I first took it out of the box I noticed some fine scratches in the music rest. I dismissed it because I was so happy to have the N1X and I figured it's only the music rest and not the main body. After a month of so the scratches started to bother me more and my dealer was unwilling to help me because it was something that should have been pointed out immediately. Yamaha customer service was not much help for me either. I won't get into the details, but I definitely missed being a Kawai customer. Thankfully, my issue is a relatively minor one, but it does remind me of my concern over having a real issue arise with the N1X, and having to rely on Yamaha's customer service.

To the original poster I'd say, hang in there. You're dealing with he best costumer service in the industry (IMO) and I'm sure if you like your CP2 design, Kawai North America will get it working right.

God Bless,
David


Last edited by David B; 05/20/19 11:13 AM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-39 Completed
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850368
05/20/19 11:19 AM
05/20/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
France, Nantes
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Alan LJ Offline
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Originally Posted by cmlpires
The issue I have is that they were aware of these pianos having this problem. They still sell them and expect that the warranty will make the customer happy.


That is unacceptable practice indeed. As for me, I cannot say because I own an MP9500. It's "old" tech that was still assembled in Japan with obvious care and sturdiness in mind from a long gone era back when industries were less, or simply had less possibilities of finding/needing ways to cut corners as much as possible. Kawai really have to do something about it before it really starts to tarnish their reputation.

Losing reputation is very easy, getting it back is tough. And that's certainly not the first time I hear such concerns here.

Originally Posted by cmlpires
About the French Je parle Francais trés bien


How nice wink Comment se fait-il? Si tu parles français si bien que cela, alors je n'ose imaginer toutes les insultes comme "bordel de merde!" que ton Kawai a dû prendre dans la figure!! grin


Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: David B] #2850374
05/20/19 11:35 AM
05/20/19 11:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
France, Nantes
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Alan LJ Offline
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Originally Posted by David B
Kawai Customer Service: A+


I didn't know Kawai had such a good customer service, that's very rare nowadays as it's one of the department where companies sadly cuts corners the most easily.

Have fun with your N1X, they're fantastic beasts smile Did you try its Kawai equivalent? How was it? What made you favor the Yamaha?


Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: Alan LJ] #2850378
05/20/19 11:42 AM
05/20/19 11:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 595
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David B Online content
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Originally Posted by Alan LJ


Have fun with your N1X, they're fantastic beasts smile Did you try its Kawai equivalent? How was it? What made you favor the Yamaha?


In the interest of keeping this thread on topic, I can PM you that information if you'd like.

Last edited by David B; 05/20/19 11:43 AM.

Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-39 Completed
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850379
05/20/19 11:44 AM
05/20/19 11:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 20
France, Nantes
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Alan LJ Offline
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Feel free smile I'd be glad to


Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: David B] #2850380
05/20/19 11:46 AM
05/20/19 11:46 AM
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cmlpires Offline OP
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David
You are right. I just finished talking to David Reid asking him to replace the whole keyboard, versus repairing each key, and he agreed to do it. Wonderful day and I am starting to see things more positive. Thank You David Reid!

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850383
05/20/19 11:51 AM
05/20/19 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by cmlpires
David
You are right. I just finished talking to David Reid asking him to replace the whole keyboard, versus repairing each key, and he agreed to do it. Wonderful day and I am starting to see things more positive. Thank You David Reid!

If you are feeling more positive, I suggest your ask the moderators to change the title of your thread to better reflect your current revised views in this issue.


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Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: Alan LJ] #2850389
05/20/19 12:03 PM
05/20/19 12:03 PM
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cmlpires Offline OP
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Alan,
Parce que j’aie étudié en France, Sorbonne, je me suis marié avec une Québécoise, et j’ai vécu à Montréal. Seulement mon keybord est un problème pour écrire Français.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850391
05/20/19 12:06 PM
05/20/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 595
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Originally Posted by cmlpires
David
You are right. I just finished talking to David Reid asking him to replace the whole keyboard, versus repairing each key, and he agreed to do it. Wonderful day and I am starting to see things more positive. Thank You David Reid!


thumb


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-39 Completed
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850392
05/20/19 12:07 PM
05/20/19 12:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
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Celestis
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Originally Posted by cmlpires
I will be calling tech again and I do not believe that will be the last time.

That sucks.
Not sure about your country but in my country, if 3 repairs fail within the warranty period, you can just demand your money back and be done with it.


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Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2850393
05/20/19 12:07 PM
05/20/19 12:07 PM
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cmlpires Offline OP
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Tyrone;
Agree. It should be simple like"Kawai quality". I am new and have trouble to do things in the forum. I never complained about anything ,because I guess I have bee lucky until this issue.

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850416
05/20/19 12:44 PM
05/20/19 12:44 PM
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Alan LJ Offline
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I don't see your thread title as being offensive to Kawai and that it would need a change. If anything, I read it like "Kawai: Is the quality lives up to their reputation or is there a lack of it?".
It's a valid concern rightfully expressed, it's not at all like you were going "Kawai: don't buy!! they're crap!"

Last edited by Alan LJ; 05/20/19 12:45 PM.

Kawai MP9500
Edirol UA-25
VST: NI Noire mainly, Pianoteq 6, Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2, NI The Grandeur
AKG Headphones K240 Studio
Occasionally plays on THULE Audio Hi-Fi amp + Dynaudio Contour speakers.
Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850470
05/20/19 03:15 PM
05/20/19 03:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,430
Raleigh, North Carolina
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@Alan: Why would you imagine anything as being "offensive to Kawai"? And why would that require a change?

@Granyala: Where do you live that offers "if 3 repairs fail within the warranty period, you can just demand your money back".

Re: Kawai Quality or lack of it [Re: cmlpires] #2850471
05/20/19 03:16 PM
05/20/19 03:16 PM
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Posts: 7,809
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I guess the obvious is - high quality assurance = low quality service in the rare event of a problem. Sometimes even denial, which makes the blood boil.

Low q.a. = High quality service in the expected event of problems. Kawai know this is going on, and probably have a balancing mechanism to maximise financial aspects of all this.

Now, if the balancing mechanism goes belly up through low quality, then . . . . . something might change!


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