Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
60 registered members (5penguins, AlphaBravoCharlie, astrotoy, Coda9, almo82, Animisha, Bruce In Philly, 9 invisible), 9,004 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 14 15
Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update #2850145
05/19/19 08:34 PM
05/19/19 08:34 PM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
C
Chantel Offline OP
Full Member
Chantel  Offline OP
Full Member
C

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
Greetings members.
I’m new to the forum and was wondering if anyone has done the latest software update as of April 2019 for the Yamaha Nu1x. It’s says on Yamaha software update page that the V2:10 update improves playability. I’m thinking seriously about purchasing the piano but am aware of the “loud note” issue, I’m just wondering if this update fixes or improves the situation?
I’m actually looking at both the Yamaha clp685 and the Nu1x. Both seem to have advantages and disadvantages. I did actually prefer the speaker sound of the 685 but the action of the Nu1x felt better to me. The 685 was not bad though just different.
I should say I’m not a great pianist. I’m a adult learner and just love playing and find it very meditative. I just sold a KAWAk200 which I really enjoyed and was more than enough piano for me, its just that I’m moving into a condo and really need a digital for practice at all hours and keep everyone happy.
I think if someone has done the software update and can confirm the loud note issue has improved I will probable get the Nu1x.
I think I could be happy with the 645 to though it sounded great.
Thank for your time and comments.
Chantel .

(ad) SWEETWATER Lowest Prices
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850160
05/19/19 09:28 PM
05/19/19 09:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,045
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,045
Sofia, Bulgaria
This is really curious. So, after all, Yamaha have come up with some way to improve the situation but it remains to be seen how much. I don’t think they have solved the issue because it’s impossible due to only key sensors. But maybe there’s some clever logic to detect quiet trills for instance and look for sudden changes in volume. I’m really curious to see what they did.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850168
05/19/19 09:48 PM
05/19/19 09:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,739
P
Pete14 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pete14  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,739
I wish Yamaha would’ve been a bit more specific: “Loud note issue completely eradicated; we dare you to try and recreate it.”
Instead they went with ‘improved playability.’

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850177
05/19/19 10:43 PM
05/19/19 10:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
O
oneilt130 Offline

Full Member
oneilt130  Offline

Full Member
O

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
I will update my NU1X later this week though before Ido that I am going no to work on being able to repeat the loud note issue on a regular basis so I can do some before and after testing. As it stands now at my skill level and for what I am playing it rarely occurs. It did appear somewhat regularly when I first got it but seemed to have died down.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Pete14] #2850243
05/20/19 05:29 AM
05/20/19 05:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,194
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,194
Raleigh, North Carolina
Yamaha would never say "we fixed some bad stuff".
Originally Posted by Pete14
I wish Yamaha would’ve been a bit more specific: “Loud note issue completely eradicated; we dare you to try and recreate it.”
Instead they went with ‘improved playability.’
If only we had someone from Yamaha here on the board. Someone with more information to share.
Where are you Yamaha James!?

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850253
05/20/19 06:00 AM
05/20/19 06:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
O
oneilt130 Offline

Full Member
oneilt130  Offline

Full Member
O

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
I installed the update this morning. Before doing it my testing for the loud not issue was just playing C and D as fast as I could at a low volume trying not to lift key completely. I couldn't duplicate it as well as CyberGene but I was able to get it to happen once every 5-10 seconds with this test.

After installing the update I did the same test. From my limited testing what I think has changed is two things. First the frequency of getting the random loud note has dropped,. I needed to play longer to get any perceived difference. Second when I think I had the issue (not sure it it was the loud note issue or my inconsistent playing) the loud note wasn't nearly as loud as it was before. Prior to this update the note was at max volume. Now it seems to be a bit louder. You can notice it but it doesn't standout. This was just a quick test this morning, it will be interesting to see if I notice it when doing my normal practice.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850257
05/20/19 06:01 AM
05/20/19 06:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,739
P
Pete14 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pete14  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,739
Mac, we do have a Yamaha agent amongst us, but unlike James, he is a spy. He lingers, he lurks, he then goes back to Yamaha and reports on his findings.
“They seem to be obsessed with pivots and the likes, so never mind true innovation, just giv’em longer pivots and flashy lights,” said the Yamaha spy to his superiors. laugh

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Pete14] #2850261
05/20/19 06:06 AM
05/20/19 06:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,194
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,194
Raleigh, North Carolina
Name your guy! I'll have you brought before the PW circuit court to testify! smile
Originally Posted by Pete14
Mac, we do have a Yamaha agent amongst us, but unlike James, he is a spy. He lingers, he lurks, he then goes back to Yamaha and reports on his findings.
“They seem to be obsessed with pivots and the likes, so never mind true innovation, just giv’em longer pivots and flashy lights,” said the Yamaha spy to his superiors. laugh

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850278
05/20/19 07:21 AM
05/20/19 07:21 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
C
Chantel Offline OP
Full Member
Chantel  Offline OP
Full Member
C

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
I think this is sounding like good news.
Thanks you everyone for responding to thread so quickly.
I’ve got my fingers crossed it is a fix.
What then should I buy the Nu1x or the clp 685. Also thinking kawai cs 11,
From all the things I could fond on this site ‘ most
of you say Nu1x is best if mot for ‘loud note” issue.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Chantel .

Last edited by Chantel; 05/20/19 07:24 AM.
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: oneilt130] #2850287
05/20/19 07:45 AM
05/20/19 07:45 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
C
Chantel Offline OP
Full Member
Chantel  Offline OP
Full Member
C

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
Thank you Onilit130

Last edited by Chantel; 05/20/19 07:49 AM.
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850297
05/20/19 08:27 AM
05/20/19 08:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,045
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,045
Sofia, Bulgaria
I don't think the issue can be eliminated only through a software fix. Using only key sensors with upright piano action has its limitations. What they have probably implemented are some software heuristics to predict the chance of a loud note. I'm wondering if it came at the cost of anything else though.

The only eventual improvement which would eliminate part of the issue is this:
if a key has been repeated and the time between the previous strike and this one is shorter than A milliseconds AND measured velocity is higher than B, then play the new note with a lower velocity, e.g. C x measured velocity.

Where A, B, C are predefined constants. Or maybe they have devised much more complex heuristics or I am missing something.

P.S. What's amazing to me is that after a relatively long period of Yamaha doing nothing regarding this issue, they have ultimately decided to implement (desperate?) attempts at resolving it. I can speculate that many pianos are being returned by customers at the expense of Yamaha themselves and there's now even greater awareness among customers regarding the issue and Yamaha have been under more and more pressure.

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/20/19 08:29 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850300
05/20/19 08:40 AM
05/20/19 08:40 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,194
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
9000 Post Club Member
MacMacMac  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,194
Raleigh, North Carolina
@CyberGene: Are saying that the NU1X has an upright action, in contrast to the N1X with its grand action?
Just trying to sort this out.

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: CyberGene] #2850309
05/20/19 08:57 AM
05/20/19 08:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
O
oneilt130 Offline

Full Member
oneilt130  Offline

Full Member
O

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by CyberGene
I don't think the issue can be eliminated only through a software fix. Using only key sensors with upright piano action has its limitations. What they have probably implemented are some software heuristics to predict the chance of a loud note. I'm wondering if it came at the cost of anything else though.

The only eventual improvement which would eliminate part of the issue is this:
if a key has been repeated and the time between the previous strike and this one is shorter than A milliseconds AND measured velocity is higher than B, then play the new note with a lower velocity, e.g. C x measured velocity.

Where A, B, C are predefined constants. Or maybe they have devised much more complex heuristics or I am missing something.

P.S. What's amazing to me is that after a relatively long period of Yamaha doing nothing regarding this issue, they have ultimately decided to implement (desperate?) attempts at resolving it. I can speculate that many pianos are being returned by customers at the expense of Yamaha themselves and there's now even greater awareness among customers regarding the issue and Yamaha have been under more and more pressure.


A few thoughts. First I agree that you can't fix the underlying cause of the issue with software alone. However I do think you can go a long way to mitigating the issue. I work with process control systems and every so often a sensor will go off the rails and report a level that is way out of wack. In the case of what I am working with it could be a sensor detecting a wet well level and the high value would set off an alarm and call people in to man the plant. This was enough of an issue that in simplified terms we ended up going with a rolling average of inputs from the sensor. We were polling it several times a second and if one result was way off it's impact was dampened by using the rolling average as the deterministic value and not the actual sensor reading.

Here I could see Yamaha creating a module that monitored the repetition rate and velocity of the keys. If one key at a high repetition rate had a velocity that was a significant deviation from the previous keys then you could modify that value before sending it on to the next stage of the sound generation process. This could reduce/ mitigate the loud note issue significantly. This is an oversimplification but I can see a way you can mitigate this with software. The downside would be if you wanted to play repetitive notes PP and then have one note at FF this approach would limit that ability.

Of course I am not the best at testing the loud note issue and this is just based on a few minutes this morning. After I few days I should get a better feeling if this is an actual change or I am just imagining it. smile


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: MacMacMac] #2850310
05/20/19 08:57 AM
05/20/19 08:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
O
oneilt130 Offline

Full Member
oneilt130  Offline

Full Member
O

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@CyberGene: Are saying that the NU1X has an upright action, in contrast to the N1X with its grand action?
Just trying to sort this out.


The NU1X is a upright action. It feels very similar to Yamaha's U1 acoustic piano.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850311
05/20/19 09:05 AM
05/20/19 09:05 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
O
oneilt130 Offline

Full Member
oneilt130  Offline

Full Member
O

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by Chantel
I think this is sounding like good news.
Thanks you everyone for responding to thread so quickly.
I’ve got my fingers crossed it is a fix.
What then should I buy the Nu1x or the clp 685. Also thinking kawai cs 11,
From all the things I could fond on this site ‘ most
of you say Nu1x is best if mot for ‘loud note” issue.
Thank you for your thoughts.
Chantel .


You should buy whatever piano you feel best when playing. (How's that for stating the obvious) I looked at the CLP 685 and the NU1X and ended up going with the NU1X. The reason for my choice is that I really would have preferred an acoustic but needed the ability to play with headphones. The hybrids do the best job of emulating that experience. All of the features other than just sitting down and playing the the default settings, like an acoustic, where not something I was looking for. If I wanted all of the different voices, ability to layer tracks and such I might have gone with the CLP 685. One other thought is that for me I thought the Binaural CFX on the NU1X was the best sounding in headphones of anything I played in that price range.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850313
05/20/19 09:06 AM
05/20/19 09:06 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,739
P
Pete14 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Pete14  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,739
Not trying to speculate, but seriously, why are we so certain that this upgrade is intended to deal with the “loud note” issue? Yamaha simply says ‘....improved playability..’

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: oneilt130] #2850314
05/20/19 09:12 AM
05/20/19 09:12 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
C
Chantel Offline OP
Full Member
Chantel  Offline OP
Full Member
C

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
Ok. You guys really know your technical stuff. I do appreciate that.
Really looking forward to hearing back from the ones of you that have done the upgrade and what difference it has made to a real world listener like me who is not a technician or programmer.
Like I said I do appreciate all your expertise with this that’s why I came to this forum, it’s awesome. I think I’m just hoping for some improvement. Happening 75% less and 75% less loud to a problem that happens only 25% of the time is big improvement in my thoughts. However I do understand for the master Players who can afford and deserve better instruments a significant improvement may not be enough for the cost of the piano.
Looking forward to your further experiences.
Thank you for your time.
Any thoughts on the Yamaha CLP-685 or KAWAI cs11 option. I think I found the cs11 action a bit spongy, but I am coming from A k200 acoustic.

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: oneilt130] #2850315
05/20/19 09:18 AM
05/20/19 09:18 AM
Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
C
Chantel Offline OP
Full Member
Chantel  Offline OP
Full Member
C

Joined: May 2019
Posts: 22
Toronto Canada
Thank you Onelit130
Yes at the end of the day that is what I will do go with my heart.
It’s just they all have pros and cons. I did prefer the sound of the clp685 speakers. Just sounded warmer to me and a little less metallic to my ears. The action on Nu1x. Did feel better. I understand why you chose it. However it did sound like I said a bit metallic on my ears. I know sitting at digitalis for a bit can start to tire my ears. That why I love acoustics but I just hev to move on from them. Can you adjust your Nu1x so that it sound a little less bright in the top end? That would be an easy fix for me.
Thank you so much, your being a great help.

Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850319
05/20/19 09:27 AM
05/20/19 09:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
O
oneilt130 Offline

Full Member
oneilt130  Offline

Full Member
O

Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by Chantel
Thank you Onelit130
Yes at the end of the day that is what I will do go with my heart.
It’s just they all have pros and cons. I did prefer the sound of the clp685 speakers. Just sounded warmer to me and a little less metallic to my ears. The action on Nu1x. Did feel better. I understand why you chose it. However it did sound like I said a bit metallic on my ears. I know sitting at digitalis for a bit can start to tire my ears. That why I love acoustics but I just hev to move on from them. Can you adjust your Nu1x so that it sound a little less bright in the top end? That would be an easy fix for me.
Thank you so much, your being a great help.


I don't adjust the sound much at all, just the reverb. I do know that the NU1X doesn't have a brightness adjustment. People have reported that the N1X does.


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update [Re: Chantel] #2850320
05/20/19 09:31 AM
05/20/19 09:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,045
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,045
Sofia, Bulgaria
Mac, I am kind of surprised, have you not read anything about NU1X? There are many threads, I've explained with a lot of details the issue, why it happens and yes, the main reason being it's an upright action smile I guess that answers your question but there's much more to it. If you're interested, just search for it, there's a lot of information.

As to the upright action. I've grown playing an upright. Maybe that's why I still find the purely mechanical feel of an upright action more familiar to me and it's the best feeling one. It's prety lively and somehow makes me feel the hammer and the underlying mechanics more than a grand action. It's important to note I'm speaking only about the feel of the action itself and not the actual playability and control. From that point of view, the action in N1X feels meatier but in a rather bad way, requiring more force and ultimately being more tiring for the hands. Again, that's only the mechanical feel. In reality I've been able to control dynamics better on the N1X and ultimately I play (much) better on N1X. However NU1X feels to me more familiar and if it wasn't for the loud note issue and the inconsistent velocity issues I've had, I would have lived perfectly with it.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Page 1 of 15 1 2 3 14 15

Moderated by  Piano World 

Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Piano shopping in Los Angeles area ?
by Coda9. 09/18/19 01:10 AM
Seeking an inexpensive external audio interface for Linux
by Tyrone Slothrop. 09/17/19 05:19 PM
Should I buy this Steinway Model B 1928
by bonedoctor. 09/17/19 04:11 PM
what's the best way to record my digital piano?
by Álvaro. 09/17/19 04:10 PM
Knuckle position and leverage
by jsilva. 09/17/19 04:03 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,080
Posts2,870,555
Members94,438
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1