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Greetings members. I’m new to the forum and was wondering if anyone has done the latest software update as of April 2019 for the Yamaha Nu1x. It’s says on Yamaha software update page that the V2:10 update improves playability. I’m thinking seriously about purchasing the piano but am aware of the “loud note†issue, I’m just wondering if this update fixes or improves the situation? I’m actually looking at both the Yamaha clp685 and the Nu1x. Both seem to have advantages and disadvantages. I did actually prefer the speaker sound of the 685 but the action of the Nu1x felt better to me. The 685 was not bad though just different. I should say I’m not a great pianist. I’m a adult learner and just love playing and find it very meditative. I just sold a KAWAk200 which I really enjoyed and was more than enough piano for me, its just that I’m moving into a condo and really need a digital for practice at all hours and keep everyone happy. I think if someone has done the software update and can confirm the loud note issue has improved I will probable get the Nu1x. I think I could be happy with the 645 to though it sounded great. Thank for your time and comments. Chantel .
This is really curious. So, after all, Yamaha have come up with some way to improve the situation but it remains to be seen how much. I don’t think they have solved the issue because it’s impossible due to only key sensors. But maybe there’s some clever logic to detect quiet trills for instance and look for sudden changes in volume. I’m really curious to see what they did.
I wish Yamaha would’ve been a bit more specific: “Loud note issue completely eradicated; we dare you to try and recreate it.†Instead they went with ‘improved playability.’
I will update my NU1X later this week though before Ido that I am going no to work on being able to repeat the loud note issue on a regular basis so I can do some before and after testing. As it stands now at my skill level and for what I am playing it rarely occurs. It did appear somewhat regularly when I first got it but seemed to have died down.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
I wish Yamaha would’ve been a bit more specific: “Loud note issue completely eradicated; we dare you to try and recreate it.†Instead they went with ‘improved playability.’
If only we had someone from Yamaha here on the board. Someone with more information to share. Where are you Yamaha James!?
I installed the update this morning. Before doing it my testing for the loud not issue was just playing C and D as fast as I could at a low volume trying not to lift key completely. I couldn't duplicate it as well as CyberGene but I was able to get it to happen once every 5-10 seconds with this test.
After installing the update I did the same test. From my limited testing what I think has changed is two things. First the frequency of getting the random loud note has dropped,. I needed to play longer to get any perceived difference. Second when I think I had the issue (not sure it it was the loud note issue or my inconsistent playing) the loud note wasn't nearly as loud as it was before. Prior to this update the note was at max volume. Now it seems to be a bit louder. You can notice it but it doesn't standout. This was just a quick test this morning, it will be interesting to see if I notice it when doing my normal practice.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Mac, we do have a Yamaha agent amongst us, but unlike James, he is a spy. He lingers, he lurks, he then goes back to Yamaha and reports on his findings. “They seem to be obsessed with pivots and the likes, so never mind true innovation, just giv’em longer pivots and flashy lights,†said the Yamaha spy to his superiors.
Name your guy! I'll have you brought before the PW circuit court to testify!
Originally Posted by Pete14
Mac, we do have a Yamaha agent amongst us, but unlike James, he is a spy. He lingers, he lurks, he then goes back to Yamaha and reports on his findings. “They seem to be obsessed with pivots and the likes, so never mind true innovation, just giv’em longer pivots and flashy lights,†said the Yamaha spy to his superiors.
I think this is sounding like good news. Thanks you everyone for responding to thread so quickly. I’ve got my fingers crossed it is a fix. What then should I buy the Nu1x or the clp 685. Also thinking kawai cs 11, From all the things I could fond on this site ‘ most of you say Nu1x is best if mot for ‘loud note†issue. Thank you for your thoughts. Chantel .
I don't think the issue can be eliminated only through a software fix. Using only key sensors with upright piano action has its limitations. What they have probably implemented are some software heuristics to predict the chance of a loud note. I'm wondering if it came at the cost of anything else though.
The only eventual improvement which would eliminate part of the issue is this: if a key has been repeated and the time between the previous strike and this one is shorter than A milliseconds AND measured velocity is higher than B, then play the new note with a lower velocity, e.g. C x measured velocity.
Where A, B, C are predefined constants. Or maybe they have devised much more complex heuristics or I am missing something.
P.S. What's amazing to me is that after a relatively long period of Yamaha doing nothing regarding this issue, they have ultimately decided to implement (desperate?) attempts at resolving it. I can speculate that many pianos are being returned by customers at the expense of Yamaha themselves and there's now even greater awareness among customers regarding the issue and Yamaha have been under more and more pressure.
I don't think the issue can be eliminated only through a software fix. Using only key sensors with upright piano action has its limitations. What they have probably implemented are some software heuristics to predict the chance of a loud note. I'm wondering if it came at the cost of anything else though.
The only eventual improvement which would eliminate part of the issue is this: if a key has been repeated and the time between the previous strike and this one is shorter than A milliseconds AND measured velocity is higher than B, then play the new note with a lower velocity, e.g. C x measured velocity.
Where A, B, C are predefined constants. Or maybe they have devised much more complex heuristics or I am missing something.
P.S. What's amazing to me is that after a relatively long period of Yamaha doing nothing regarding this issue, they have ultimately decided to implement (desperate?) attempts at resolving it. I can speculate that many pianos are being returned by customers at the expense of Yamaha themselves and there's now even greater awareness among customers regarding the issue and Yamaha have been under more and more pressure.
A few thoughts. First I agree that you can't fix the underlying cause of the issue with software alone. However I do think you can go a long way to mitigating the issue. I work with process control systems and every so often a sensor will go off the rails and report a level that is way out of wack. In the case of what I am working with it could be a sensor detecting a wet well level and the high value would set off an alarm and call people in to man the plant. This was enough of an issue that in simplified terms we ended up going with a rolling average of inputs from the sensor. We were polling it several times a second and if one result was way off it's impact was dampened by using the rolling average as the deterministic value and not the actual sensor reading.
Here I could see Yamaha creating a module that monitored the repetition rate and velocity of the keys. If one key at a high repetition rate had a velocity that was a significant deviation from the previous keys then you could modify that value before sending it on to the next stage of the sound generation process. This could reduce/ mitigate the loud note issue significantly. This is an oversimplification but I can see a way you can mitigate this with software. The downside would be if you wanted to play repetitive notes PP and then have one note at FF this approach would limit that ability.
Of course I am not the best at testing the loud note issue and this is just based on a few minutes this morning. After I few days I should get a better feeling if this is an actual change or I am just imagining it.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
I think this is sounding like good news. Thanks you everyone for responding to thread so quickly. I’ve got my fingers crossed it is a fix. What then should I buy the Nu1x or the clp 685. Also thinking kawai cs 11, From all the things I could fond on this site ‘ most of you say Nu1x is best if mot for ‘loud note†issue. Thank you for your thoughts. Chantel .
You should buy whatever piano you feel best when playing. (How's that for stating the obvious) I looked at the CLP 685 and the NU1X and ended up going with the NU1X. The reason for my choice is that I really would have preferred an acoustic but needed the ability to play with headphones. The hybrids do the best job of emulating that experience. All of the features other than just sitting down and playing the the default settings, like an acoustic, where not something I was looking for. If I wanted all of the different voices, ability to layer tracks and such I might have gone with the CLP 685. One other thought is that for me I thought the Binaural CFX on the NU1X was the best sounding in headphones of anything I played in that price range.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Not trying to speculate, but seriously, why are we so certain that this upgrade is intended to deal with the “loud note†issue? Yamaha simply says ‘....improved playability..’
Ok. You guys really know your technical stuff. I do appreciate that. Really looking forward to hearing back from the ones of you that have done the upgrade and what difference it has made to a real world listener like me who is not a technician or programmer. Like I said I do appreciate all your expertise with this that’s why I came to this forum, it’s awesome. I think I’m just hoping for some improvement. Happening 75% less and 75% less loud to a problem that happens only 25% of the time is big improvement in my thoughts. However I do understand for the master Players who can afford and deserve better instruments a significant improvement may not be enough for the cost of the piano. Looking forward to your further experiences. Thank you for your time. Any thoughts on the Yamaha CLP-685 or KAWAI cs11 option. I think I found the cs11 action a bit spongy, but I am coming from A k200 acoustic.
Thank you Onelit130 Yes at the end of the day that is what I will do go with my heart. It’s just they all have pros and cons. I did prefer the sound of the clp685 speakers. Just sounded warmer to me and a little less metallic to my ears. The action on Nu1x. Did feel better. I understand why you chose it. However it did sound like I said a bit metallic on my ears. I know sitting at digitalis for a bit can start to tire my ears. That why I love acoustics but I just hev to move on from them. Can you adjust your Nu1x so that it sound a little less bright in the top end? That would be an easy fix for me. Thank you so much, your being a great help.
Thank you Onelit130 Yes at the end of the day that is what I will do go with my heart. It’s just they all have pros and cons. I did prefer the sound of the clp685 speakers. Just sounded warmer to me and a little less metallic to my ears. The action on Nu1x. Did feel better. I understand why you chose it. However it did sound like I said a bit metallic on my ears. I know sitting at digitalis for a bit can start to tire my ears. That why I love acoustics but I just hev to move on from them. Can you adjust your Nu1x so that it sound a little less bright in the top end? That would be an easy fix for me. Thank you so much, your being a great help.
I don't adjust the sound much at all, just the reverb. I do know that the NU1X doesn't have a brightness adjustment. People have reported that the N1X does.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Mac, I am kind of surprised, have you not read anything about NU1X? There are many threads, I've explained with a lot of details the issue, why it happens and yes, the main reason being it's an upright action I guess that answers your question but there's much more to it. If you're interested, just search for it, there's a lot of information.
As to the upright action. I've grown playing an upright. Maybe that's why I still find the purely mechanical feel of an upright action more familiar to me and it's the best feeling one. It's prety lively and somehow makes me feel the hammer and the underlying mechanics more than a grand action. It's important to note I'm speaking only about the feel of the action itself and not the actual playability and control. From that point of view, the action in N1X feels meatier but in a rather bad way, requiring more force and ultimately being more tiring for the hands. Again, that's only the mechanical feel. In reality I've been able to control dynamics better on the N1X and ultimately I play (much) better on N1X. However NU1X feels to me more familiar and if it wasn't for the loud note issue and the inconsistent velocity issues I've had, I would have lived perfectly with it.
Thank you. Perhaps the Bosendorfer through the speakers and the cfx through headphones would be a great way to go. I know people don’t like the Bosendorfer sound on those pianos but perhaps for me coming from an acoustic it may help speaker fatigue. I get you about the headphones sound of cfx it sounded really great.
Not trying to speculate, but seriously, why are we so certain that this upgrade is intended to deal with the “loud note†issue? Yamaha simply says ‘....improved playability..’
This is where we really miss CyberGene being a NU1X owner. By now he would have this upgrade completely broken down, analyzed and video demos of the changes.
We don't know at the moment if it actually fixes it. Just from my limited before and after testing for 5 minutes it seems to be reduced. After a few days of playing I should have a better handle on it. I never really came across it that often so it's hard for me to tell. I can understand Yamaha not mentioning that this issue was fixed because they never considered in an issue and the first thing your corporate legal department will tell you is to never acknowledge a problem with your product unless you absolutely have to. Or as someone at a large software company once told me, we don't have bugs, we have programming anomalies.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Or as someone at a large software company once told me, we don't have bugs, we have programming anomalies.
Ok, that makes sense, because all the programming anomalies are features!
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
CG could hop on a train (flash drive in hand) head to the nearest dealer, upgrade the heck out of that there NU1X, go about testing all systems, and then report his findings back to the mothership.
From that point of view, the action in N1X feels meatier but in a rather bad way, requiring more force and ultimately being more tiring for the hands. Again, that's only the mechanical feel. In reality I've been able to control dynamics better on the N1X and ultimately I play (much) better on N1X. However NU1X feels to me more familiar and if it wasn't for the loud note issue and the inconsistent velocity issues I've had, I would have lived perfectly with it.
IMO, this has less to do with upright versus grand, and more to do with how Yamaha's hybrid actions feel. When I play the NU1/NU1X/N1/N2/N3/N3X, I felt that they all had a stiffer-than-normal response than what I was used to with 6'+ Yamaha grands or the older Yamaha U3 uprights I normally play. They're just not light actions at all (which I think is a preference issue and not a complaint). I also found the NV10's Millennium III action a bit stiffer than ideal, but a better balance between a "practice" and a "performance" action than the AGs' especially stiff action. Just my personal experience there.
Originally Posted by Pete14
Not trying to speculate, but seriously, why are we so certain that this upgrade is intended to deal with the “loud note†issue? Yamaha simply says ‘....improved playability..’
+1. Other than the folks providing direct feedback on the new patch, I think there's a\ bit of unfounded speculation at this point. One question--is this update available for the NU1 as well? If so I can give it a try (since the underlying sensing system should be identical between the two). I experience the loud note issue multiple times on any piece I play (probably due to HOW I play) and have always been able to repro the issue on demand. Unlike CyberGene, I do feel the issue CAN be largely alleviated with a firmware change, but it depends a lot on how you play and what kind of response you expect from the key/action.
CyberGene you play beautifully. If I could play like you I would buy the n1x and call it a day. I hope you don’t regret buying that piano because I for sure could hear and see how wonderfully you expressed on it. As I said I’m not an experienced pianist but I am an artist and musical. I agree there is something liberating when I sit at an upright and I just feel more playful and less, Intimidated, is probable the best word. Having said that every time I sit at a grand and feel a grand action I want to play emotively. It feels like a privilege to sit at a nice grand and feel what I would describe as a more delicate action. My teacher has a Shigeru Kawai and It is really wonderful. I just can’t play well enough to truly take advantage. I did sit at a Yamaha AVn1 the older model AV and it felt really great. It’s just out of my budget and probable and as I said not needed. Like I said if I could play like you CyberGene I would get it and for sure find the money to get the latest model x. Interesting I found the clp 685 felt more like an upright action than a grand action. Did anyone else feel that way.
Thank you Gombessa. I think I am use to a firmer K200 action so Nu1x felt fine and n1 felt lighter. I think if the loud note software update controls the loud notes a lot Nu1x is probable the one for me. Not hearing a lot of love for the clp685. I think it was the slightly less icy metallic sound to the speakers that I liked about the 685. Thanks again
I installed the update this morning. Before doing it my testing for the loud not issue was just playing C and D as fast as I could at a low volume trying not to lift key completely. I couldn't duplicate it as well as CyberGene but I was able to get it to happen once every 5-10 seconds with this test.
oneilt130, I'm planning on doing the update when I get home from work tonight. Do you know what file system format you used for your USB key? I'm going to be doing this from a Mac, and my recollection from trying (and failing) to do this with my CP4 a long time ago was that it was a pain generating a key that the instrument would recognized.
I plan on doing my best to sort out some repeatable ( :P ) AB tests to see if I can glean the difference the update brings.
CyberGene you play beautifully. If I could play like you I would buy the n1x and call it a day. I hope you don’t regret buying that piano because I for sure could hear and see how wonderfully you expressed on it. As I said I’m not an experienced pianist but I am an artist and musical. I agree there is something liberating when I sit at an upright and I just feel more playful and less, Intimidated, is probable the best word. Having said that every time I sit at a grand and feel a grand action I want to play emotively. It feels like a privilege to sit at a nice grand and feel what I would describe as a more delicate action. My teacher has a Shigeru Kawai and It is really wonderful. I just can’t play well enough to truly take advantage. I did sit at a Yamaha AVn1 the older model AV and it felt really great. It’s just out of my budget and probable and as I said not needed. Like I said if I could play like you CyberGene I would get it and for sure find the money to get the latest model x. Interesting I found the clp 685 felt more like an upright action than a grand action. Did anyone else feel that way.
Thanks for the nice words! Well, I'm not sorry to purchase the N1X, quite on the contrary, I'm actually happy that all those issues with my NU1X ultimately contributed for me to be ripe for purchasing the N1X which I can describe as the love of my musical life Right at the time of purchasing the NU1X I though that was the maximum budget I should spend for a digital instrument and owning it for a month made me realize I'm ready for even more than that.
Well, my sentiment about the NU1X is most probably coming from my youth with an upright. I'm sure N1X is the better instrument in any respect but sometimes the nostalgia can be stronger than reason. You can even blame it on the fact I've grown up in a rather poor family and I've been taught to have guilt over any purchase Although I haven't broken my bank account I still experience some inbuilt guilt from time to time which is I'm not a professional musician and why would I need a N1X when there are real pianists who might need it but can't afford it... Sorry for the emotional offtopic
I installed the update this morning. Before doing it my testing for the loud not issue was just playing C and D as fast as I could at a low volume trying not to lift key completely. I couldn't duplicate it as well as CyberGene but I was able to get it to happen once every 5-10 seconds with this test.
oneilt130, I'm planning on doing the update when I get home from work tonight. Do you know what file system format you used for your USB key? I'm going to be doing this from a Mac, and my recollection from trying (and failing) to do this with my CP4 a long time ago was that it was a pain generating a key that the instrument would recognized.
I plan on doing my best to sort out some repeatable ( :P ) AB tests to see if I can glean the difference the update brings.
Using Windows I took a USB drive and removed the contents then copied over the NU1XSETUP.PRG file. Plugged that into the NU1X and followed the update instructions. The whole process took very little time. The only downside is it appears to have cleared the WiFi settings so I will have to put those back tonight.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
We await thee, BradleyG, for in thee rests the weight of that-there loud note which has prevented our brethren from reaching thy promise land. We await thee, BradleyG!
Although I haven't broken my bank account I still experience some inbuilt guilt from time to time which is I'm not a professional musician and why would I need a N1X when there are real pianists who might need it but can't afford it... Sorry for the emotional offtopic
This reminds me of a Reddit thread I read 6 months ago (LOL, my memory thing again LOL) which was someone announcing they bought a nice hybrid - might have been an N3X and posted pics. One of the commenters, who appeared to be either a piano teacher or someone who makes their living playing piano commented a very discouraging and bitter message about how "of course" the OP wasn't a piano professional because of course piano professionals like this commenter were just trying to make ends meet and could never afford such a luxury instrument. I don't think the comments were well received, as you could guess, but it did make me wonder if it is true that most purchasers of high-end pianos - whether digital or acoustic - don't actually "deserve" them from a skill perspective. I know I will not be deserving mine. (Although maybe it will cause me to work harder on my piano skills in striving to deserve it some day! )
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
You are right CyberGene. I know that guilt feeling as I grew up poor also. 1960s family with 6 children. Don’t hear that much anymore. We would never been able to afford a piano a or lessons. Thats’s why I had to wait until I was an adult to start and an old one at that. I think you are a little younger than I but I if could just say although pianos are not food to eat, music and a wonderful instrument that lets you express yourself has got to be right up there with the best things you can do for quality of life and health. It is money well we’ll spent, which I think you know. Trust me money goes places. You should see what people are spending on cars in Toronto. It is crazy and I get a funny feeling folks that spend money on them are not getting the satisfaction out of their hundred thousand dollar vehicles as you from your much less expensive investment. Like I said if I could play like you. Think of all the years you have invested into your passion. Trust me you deserve that piano.
I have an acquaintance who is very well to do and brought an expensive Yamaha Grand Piano for his kids. Only one of the several children ever took lessons. His comment was well I tried and the piano looks great in my home.
Also a relative from in-laws is extremely well to do. Made his fortune in the insurance business. Brought a nice Steinway piano but none of the children play at all. At least when he holds parties for business execs. he hires a professional to play the piano
All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
You are mistaken, Sir. The acquaintance, who is very well to do, brought the Yamaha from a distant land called Japan. The relative, extremely well to do, brought a nice Steinway from a trip to Germany.
Fingers crossed this is the answer to all of our hopes and dreams of the NU1/X being the piano it was meant to be without any unintentional shortcomings. Loud note, be gone!
I’m not holding my breath though. The realist and pessimist in me are usually correct.
I will install this tonight and test it. The loud note issue occured very occasionally during my plays but i know how to force it.
Last edited by Tyr; 05/21/1905:35 AM.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
Quick update I've played my NU1X for about an hour between yesterday and this morning (gotta love those headphones!) and no loud note issue so far though as I have mentioned it didn't occur often for me. I have tried to duplicate it paying two keys next to each other repetitively and using the test CyberGene came up with. So far what I have gotten is a slightly louder note but not the more jarring full volume effect. I can't tell if the slightly louder note is because of the issue or my inability to play rapid notes consistently.
Come on BradleyG and Tyr, I need someone with more experience and ability to test this.
On a side note I can't see any other changes this update makes. There was mention of that the Smart Pianist v2.0 app was now supported. I was excited that maybe there was something new there but then I went to update the app and it turns out I was already using v2.x. No new app for me
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
That's promising. Even if the loud note issue is not fully eradicated but only alleviated, that would be already a welcome improvement to an already great instrument
There was mention of that the Smart Pianist v2.0 app was now supported. I was excited that maybe there was something new there but then I went to update the app and it turns out I was already using v2.x. No new app for me
The description in the google playstore says the app will support newer models on june 2019.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
The current android app doesn't support models like NU1X, P-125, P-515, CLP-685 etc. like the iOS version does.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
Are we to interpret this silence as a negative on the loud note? Or are the parties involved thoroughly testing all systems before posting their findings here at the world of piano? Still, I’m cautiously optimistic about this. What if Yamaha has already -subliminally- conditioned us into believing that there is an improvement, yet the truth turns out to be more complicated than that: the loud note has now been substituted for a quiet note!
Ayet the truth turns out to be more complicated than that: the loud note has now been substituted for a quiet note!
Not that I have an NU1X, but for me, quiet is so much better than loud!
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Oh... I'll probably get this instead of the 685 if the loud note issue is eradicated (somewhat at least) since I always liked the sound of the NU1/X more than the 685.
The NU1X has only 4 speakers compared to 7 on the CLP685. The 685 also has much higher wattage, yet many prefer the former (loud note aside).
The NU1X has 2 40W as compared to CLP685’s 3 30W or something though, right?
Either way, the salesman said the same to me, but I still liked the NU1X more. Sounded more natural.
I faced the same delima, here's a thread I started on this topic. To summarize take the specs with a grain of salt. I felt and still feel the same way you do that the NU1X sounds and plays more like an acoustic.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Wattage means nothing. It's the quality of the amp and speakers which make the difference. I can't tell exactly what is different albeit the watts, but the NU1X sounds much richer and balanced than the CLP-685.
I tested the 02.01 Update and can confirm from my plays and tests, that the loud note issue has gone away or the volume level of the specific note has been drastically reduced. I tried it before the update (where it occured two or three times) and after the update.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
Another quick update. I decided to take one for the team and play for another half hour at lunch. This time I focused on the rapid repetition parts of Clementi's Sonatina No 1 third movement. This is the most recent piece where this issue has happened. The short answer is that once I had what I would consider a muted loud note occur. This is an area that I can play the repeated notes at a consistent volume and one of the notes was definitely a bit louder than the others. It wasn't the jarring max volume sound that had occurred in the past but it was a bit louder. The issue seems to be happening less often and with less of an increase in volume.
So with my limited testing it appears that they have mitigated the issue but not completely eliminated it. Hopefully BradleyG and Tyr will be reporting in soon. Who knows it may just be the software equivalent of the placebo effect. (Once again curse you CyberGene for abandoning us. )
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Wattage means nothing. It's the quality of the amp and speakers which make the difference. I can't tell exactly what is different albeit the watts, but the NU1X sounds much richer and balanced than the CLP-685.
I tested the 02.01 Update and can confirm from my plays and tests, that the loud note issue has gone away or the volume level of the specific note has been drastically reduced. I tried it before the update (where it occured two or three times) and after the update.
Thanks for the update.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Wattage means nothing. It's the quality of the amp and speakers which make the difference. I can't tell exactly what is different albeit the watts, but the NU1X sounds much richer and balanced than the CLP-685.
I tested the 02.01 Update and can confirm from my plays and tests, that the loud note issue has gone away or the volume level of the specific note has been drastically reduced. I tried it before the update (where it occured two or three times) and after the update.
I just thought of another possible heuristics. The fact is: when you push the hammer, it’s heavy and would limit the maximum velocity you can achieve due to inertia. However when the key has not been released fully, hence the jack hasn't reengaged the hammer, key is light and you can easily accelerate it to produce high, or what’s more important: HIGHER terminal velocity, hence the loud note issue. The software would always produce a MIDI value of 127 if the velocity is higher than some value. But actually you can measure what’s a reasonable max velocity with hammer and then introduce a new check for velocities exceeding that. Previously it would produce 127 but now it would see what was the last value for that key and repeat it. Not very consistent but still better than blasting a full 127 strike. There might be another additional check if that event happened shortly after the same key has been released because that’s when loud note issue happens: on repetition, never on first strike.
There’s a lot of statistical analysis that could be done by Yamaha to determine when the issue happens and then go to use that data to predict it and alleviate it. It’s only odd that they introduced it after so much time.
I just thought of another possible heuristics. The fact is: when you push the hammer, it’s heavy and would limit the maximum velocity you can achieve due to inertia. However when the key has not been released fully, hence the jack hasn't reengaged the hammer, key is light and you can easily accelerate it to produce high, or what’s more important: HIGHER terminal velocity, hence the loud note issue. The software would always produce a MIDI value of 127 if the velocity is higher than some value. But actually you can measure what’s a reasonable max velocity with hammer and then introduce a new check for velocities exceeding that. Previously it would produce 127 but now it would see what was the last value for that key and repeat it. Not very consistent but still better than blasting a full 127 strike. There might be another additional check if that event happened shortly after the same key has been released because that’s when loud note issue happens: on repetition, never on first strike.
There’s a lot of statistical analysis that could be done by Yamaha to determine when the issue happens and then go to use that data to predict it and alleviate it. It’s only odd that they introduced it after so much time.
My guess is that it took Yamaha some time to decide to fix it then they needed to schedule the resources to the project. Who knows, they team that wrote this update could have been busy working on the N1X before this or some other project. Also while I understand the logic behind dampening sensor input it's a long way from mitigating something like a flow meter to how you handle the sound from a DP. I could see something like this taking awhile to work out and then test the heck out of it.
Regardless the result is very good. It's in the early testing stages but so far I would consider the issue resolved. It seems to happen with much less frequency and when it does it's a more subtle increase in volume, not the full on max volume that it was doing.
Now if they could just add that brightness setting that the N1X folk have been talking about.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Greetings members. I’m new to the forum and was wondering if anyone has done the latest software update as of April 2019 for the Yamaha Nu1x. It’s says on Yamaha software update page that the V2:10 update improves playability. I’m thinking seriously about purchasing the piano but am aware of the “loud note†issue, I’m just wondering if this update fixes or improves the situation? I’m actually looking at both the Yamaha clp685 and the Nu1x. Both seem to have advantages and disadvantages. I did actually prefer the speaker sound of the 685 but the action of the Nu1x felt better to me. The 685 was not bad though just different. I should say I’m not a great pianist. I’m a adult learner and just love playing and find it very meditative. I just sold a KAWAk200 which I really enjoyed and was more than enough piano for me, its just that I’m moving into a condo and really need a digital for practice at all hours and keep everyone happy. I think if someone has done the software update and can confirm the loud note issue has improved I will probable get the Nu1x. I think I could be happy with the 645 to though it sounded great. Thank for your time and comments. Chantel .
Shout out to Chantel for starting this thread. I never would have checked for the update if I hadn't seen this post. The loud note issue was never a big deal for me but it is still nice to have it taken care of.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
I just thought of another possible heuristics. The fact is: when you push the hammer, it’s heavy and would limit the maximum velocity you can achieve due to inertia. However when the key has not been released fully, hence the jack hasn't reengaged the hammer, key is light and you can easily accelerate it to produce high, or what’s more important: HIGHER terminal velocity, hence the loud note issue. The software would always produce a MIDI value of 127 if the velocity is higher than some value. But actually you can measure what’s a reasonable max velocity with hammer and then introduce a new check for velocities exceeding that. Previously it would produce 127 but now it would see what was the last value for that key and repeat it. Not very consistent but still better than blasting a full 127 strike. There might be another additional check if that event happened shortly after the same key has been released because that’s when loud note issue happens: on repetition, never on first strike.
There’s a lot of statistical analysis that could be done by Yamaha to determine when the issue happens and then go to use that data to predict it and alleviate it. It’s only odd that they introduced it after so much time.
I wonder what the latency cost is of introducing these types of fixes. IIRC all of these DPs go to great lengths (e.g., high-speed ASICs) to dramatically reduce the time it takes from sensing to sounding. A new check may not be all that computationally intensive, but a bunch of new if/then conditions (Did a note strike with a certain velocity? Did it strike with a lower velocity x ms earlier? Etc.) may start pushing the design specs? I doubt it would break anything in this case, but I would imagine any maker would be very careful about introducing changes that affect the perception of real-time response (particularly if it also reduces headroom for other changes/features that may need to be added in the future). That could be why Yamaha sat on this for years without quickly pushing out a fix (or fixing the issue in the NU1X).
Layman walking: could any further tweaking/regulation of the action help with the issue? Of course, this would be implemented on units leaving the factory now. Existing owners could probably get the ‘regulation’ per request. Right now it seems like we’re split as to whether the issue was completely eradicated or simply masked/diminished. At least one member believes that it’s still there but not as ‘loud/often’ as before.
Oh no thank you so much. I actually found out about the issue through this forum in the first place. Then when I was looking in showroom I asked the sales person and he said the new software update fixes that. Came home saw the update ion Yamaha site then I joined this site to ask you guys. I was curious that no one noticed the update but I guess it’s not usual for piano makers to do updates. I am use to it with camera manufacturers. Thank you so much for testing this and helping me make a decision. It’s been a great help. I think what I’m hearing is if the Nu1x came with the current update loaded the piano would have been way better received and consider to be an excellent option as a k200 replacement? Thank you so much oneilt130! I am still waiting for the other testers before I bite.
I just read your thread. Its so great you were going through same process as me. I will be back a the dealer soon and compared 685 and nu1x again. But I keep hearing g Nu1x is the better choice. For sure I prefer the way it feels. I’m curious Oneilt. Did you try the Kawai CA98 or cs11. They get such good reviews but they just felt like a fake action to me. In their defence I think Im just use to an upright action. I’m also just wondering how much our brains perceive feel into sound. That is if we sit at a dp that feels way better or like a real piano that we include that into how the piano sounds. It all works together to create a whole. If we sit at an action that is not as good or does not feel as good but is in a better sounding cabinet then we don’t like it. The human brain is easily tricked. Perception is everything. That’s why at the end of the day we go with the heart. Knowing I’m spending a lot for a piano that is not defective means a lot to me though. So thank so much for doing the tests. Wow that’s great. Also anyone out there have any long term reports of living with durability of Nu1x or even the previous Nu1. Does it have to be regulated after a while like an acoustic. Sorry if that’s a dumb question. It’s all just new to me. Thank you everyone.
I just read your thread. It so great you were going through same process as me. I will be back a the dealer soon ams compared 685 ams nu1x again. But I keep hearing g Nu1x is the better choice. For sure I prefer the way it feels. I’m curious Oneilt. Did you try the Kawai CA98 or cs11. They get such good reviews but they just felt like a fake action to me. In their defence I think Im just use to an upright action. I’m also just wondering how much our brains perceive feel into sound. That is if we sit at a dp that feels way better or like a real piano that we include that into how the piano sounds. It all works together to create a whole. If we sit at an action that is not as good or does not feel as good but is in a better sounding cabinet then we don’t like it. The human brain is easily tricked. Perception is everything. That’s why at the end of the day we go with the heart. Knowing I’m spending a lot for a piano that is not defective means a lot to me though. So thank so much for do8 g the tests. Wow that’s great. Also anyone out there any long term reports of living with durability of Nu1x or even the previous Nu1. Does it have to be regulated after a while like an acoustic. Sorry if that’s a dumb question. It’s all just new to me. Thank you everyone.
I tried the CA78/98 and there was just something about the sound that I didn't care for. It wasn't bad and it could be related to my having tinnitus but it just didn't sound as good. If you hang out here long enough you will see the endless debates on what tech or DP sounds better or worse. I think they have the same "discussions" in the acoustic piano forum as well. You need to get what sounds best to you. Also I didn't care for the touch screen interface. I am probably one of the only people here who will praise the simplicity of the NU1X interface. I play it pretty much with the defaults and use the Smart Pianist app for any adjustments and recordings so I like that the controls don't get in the way.
BTW I also tested the Roland LX708 and checked into the MPSE11 and other slab options thinking of building the Franken DP. When I first started looking I went to a Yamaha dealer outside of Philly to check out the CLP685. The dealer let me play it by myself and after 5 minutes I wasn't thrilled. When I was getting ready to walk out the sales person asked what I thought and I told him. He then directed me to the NU1X. I liked it a lot and was able to jump between that and the acoustic U1. The NU1X felt very close to an acoustic upright and sounded great on pianos. But based on the specs I spent probably the better part of 6 months trying to convince myself not to get the NU1X even though every time I tried it out it was the one that made me the happiest.
In the end I bought the NU1X knowing fully informed about the loud note issue and never regretted the choice I made. It is a joy to play.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Thank you. That inspires so much confidence in me choosing the Nu1x. For your interest when I was at the dealer another sales person who did not know what I was looking at, and I agreed with him 100%, said the Nu1x Rhodes sound sounded the best through the Nu1x Than other dp in their store. I heard it rightaway when I played it. I get most folks here play piano so wonderfully they probable don’t play the Rhodes sound but I do and it was clearly better on the Nu1x. I will look into the Smart pianist app as I don’t know anything about it. I do like simplicity and am aware of the bells and whistles trap. 98% of the 685 features I would not use. Splitting a keyboard has it’s appeal to me but certainly not of the expenses of a proper feeling action. When you have the time what features in the smart pianist app improve the Nu1x. Is it mostly for recordings? Thank you so much again. You have been a great help!
Thank you. That inspires so much confidence in me choosing the Nu1x. For your interest when I was at the dealer another sales person who did not know what I was looking at, and I agreed with him 100%, said the Nu1x Rhodes sound sounded the best through the Nu1x Than other dp in their store. I heard it rightaway when I played it. I get most folks here play piano so wonderfully they probable don’t play the Rhodes sound but I do and it was clearly better on the Nu1x. I will look into the Smart pianist app as I don’t know anything about it. I do like simplicity and am aware of the bells and whistles trap. 98% of the 685 features I would not use. Splitting a keyboard has it’s appeal to me but certainly not of the expenses of a proper feeling action. When you have the time what features in the smart pianist app improve the Nu1x. Is it mostly for recordings? Thank you so much again. You have been a great help!
I primarily use the Smart Pianist app for recordings and the metronome. (I really like the bell sound that it uses for measures. Can't find an app that does it yet.) On occasion I use it to play with some of the sounds but not that much. Even for recordings if I just want to play back something to critique it myself I use the controls on the NU1X. One button starts recording what you are playing. Great for quick feedback. I use the app when I want to do something else with the recording. You can upload to drop box right in the app. I find that easier than using a thumb drive to transfer files to the computer.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
That inspires so much confidence in me choosing the Nu1x.
NU1X is love, NU1X is life! Get it and be happy. I've never regretted my decision after my trip over several highend DPs.
Last edited by Tyr; 05/22/1904:49 AM.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
I will install the software shortly and report back. I typically have heard the "loud note" issue at least once or twice during my playing: let's see if it works!
Ok so, admittedly I haven't played as long as I usually do, but despite all of my attempts to re-create the "loud note" issue, I just could NOT!
I'm hoping this is the fix we've all been waiting for. I have to get ready for work (and then my lesson this evening), so I will have to use it a bit more to really see. Stay tuned!
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken. Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem? The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken. Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem? The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.
I feel your annoyance! But let's think of it this way. Acoustical upright actions don't allow key repetition at a frequency higher than 7 Hz apparently due to mechanical limitations. So one manufacturer added magnets to the action and another added springs, both intended to allow faster key repetition. Were these manufacturers fixing something that was broken? Or did they make an "improvement in playability?"
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.
But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.
But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.
Originally Posted by Pete14
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken. Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem? The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.
Call my cynical but I am not that concerned with the why Yamaha come out with the fix now or what their statements were in the past. I view most corporations as amoral sharks working in what they perceive to be their short term or long term best interests. I may not agree with their perceptions or directions but I don't think they expend resources on things like updates for virtuous reasons. I think Yamaha thought that the cost of the firmware update would be more than offset by an increase in sales or reduction in returns/service calls. Nothing more and nothing less. If they couldn't attach some perceived return on investment to the fix they probably wouldn't have done it.
All I care about is that they have taken a DP that I really liked and made it even better. (And it does reduce my N1X envy a little bit. )
So now that this issue that has it's own somewhat long thread appears to be resolved I think it's time to start a NU1X love fest thread like the N1X thread. The first topic should be the pros and cons of different waxes and polishing compounds. We need to let others know that we are just as obsessed with the gloss of our pianos as they are.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.
But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.
Originally Posted by Pete14
Let’s assume that the issue is gone. Initially Yamaha denies it and claims the instrument is supposed to behave that way; nothing was done for the NU1 and now, many years later, they ‘fix’ what was -according to them- not broken. Do we believe that the problem was so complex to correct that Yamaha opted to quietly attempt a fix whilst publicly denying the problem? The goal: if we can’t fix it, we never talk about it and the ‘loudness’ prevails; if we fix it, we quietly implement the fix for the piano that was never ‘broken’ in the first place, and we simply call the upgrade an ‘improvement in playability’.
Call my cynical but I am not that concerned with the why Yamaha come out with the fix now or what their statements were in the past. I view most corporations as amoral sharks working in what they perceive to be their short term or long term best interests. I may not agree with their perceptions or directions but I don't think they expend resources on things like updates for virtuous reasons. I think Yamaha thought that the cost of the firmware update would be more than offset by an increase in sales or reduction in returns/service calls. Nothing more and nothing less. If they couldn't attach some perceived return on investment to the fix they probably wouldn't have done it.
All I care about is that they have taken a DP that I really liked and made it even better. (And it does reduce my N1X envy a little bit. )
So now that this issue that has it's own somewhat long thread appears to be resolved I think it's time to start a NU1X love fest thread like the N1X thread. The first topic should be the pros and cons of different waxes and polishing compounds. We need to let others know that we are just as obsessed with the gloss of our pianos as they are.
The first topic should be the pros and cons of different waxes and polishing compounds. We need to let others know that we are just as obsessed with the gloss of our pianos as they are.
And the electrostatic/anti-static properties of the plastics comprising them!
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
I’ve applied the patch, and so far it seems to be an improvement. I was playing a passage where I could physically feel the keys in a no-resistance state, and the result was not an out of character loud note. I have tried anything rigorous, just playing as usual.
What’s most surprising to me is that, despite having my instrument registrations made online with my email address, and despite my signing up for various mailing lists for any announcements by Yamaha, there was no proactive messaging around this. Had I not been participating in this forum, I doubt I’d have discovered the update for another 6 months.
All of that said, an instrument I already loved got better!
Indeed, that came as a surprise, first of all because Yamaha release new firmware updates once a century, and then because that wasn't communicated in any possible way. It's a shame an important update like that is currently discussed only here. I actually checked whether there's an update for N1X too because, you know... why not Maybe it's not just the loud note issue but a better interpretation of key sensors? Reminds me why I have ignored Yamaha for such a long time
Indeed, that came as a surprise, first of all because Yamaha release new firmware updates once a century, and then because that wasn't communicated in any possible way. It's a shame an important update like that is currently discussed only here. I actually checked whether there's an update for N1X too because, you know... why not Maybe it's not just the loud note issue but a better interpretation of key sensors? Reminds me why I have ignored Yamaha for such a long time
Sounds like we will only know of N1X updates in the future because one of us on the forum checks or is told to check.
BTW, this is not only an issue of Yamaha not telling their customers. They don't tell their dealers either. For example, my Yamaha dealer where I bought my N1X (due in two days! ) does a brisk business for Yamaha. They even have a Yamaha-certified technician. Yet their N3X floor model has the broken version of the TRS system and I had to be the to tell them that there is a service update to fix this. So Yamaha keeps their dealers in the dark too.
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Could this be linked to the well-known cultural characteristic of Japanese people to avoid admitting mistakes? Reminds me of the NV10 thread too and the buzzing issue. But admittedly Kawai are light years ahead in admitting mistakes and preparing firmware updates
If they fixed it with an algorithm, they probably used machine learning to get there, and this may be so far out of their regular ways that it took them years to realize that they needed to go down that path.
But of course they can't have it both ways, so in the past having denied there being a problem, they can't really announce now the new functionality with a great fanfare.
I'm a bit skeptical that they'd introduce machine learning if they weren't already using it for other things on this device. I bet the instrument is pretty constrained on CPU, memory, and storage.
It occurs to me, we missed an opportunity as a forum. Those of us with NU1Xs could have created a library of midi files with loud notes. Not just trills or repeats, but especially where they were present in the playing of actual compositions. We could have then reasonably easily labelled the bad notes and had a terrific training set to experiment with our own algorithms, even if it wasn't going to be possible to patch them to the instrument itself. Would have been fun. But hey, Yamaha did the job, so hey!
I suppose one way we may know what Yamaha did here is to watch their patent filings. Which brings up another possibility- perhaps the reason it took so long for a patch was because they did indeed have some IP filings to square away first.
I'm a bit skeptical that they'd introduce machine learning if they weren't already using it for other things on this device. I bet the instrument is pretty constrained on CPU, memory, and storage.
I believe QuasiUnaFantasia didn't mean that they are now running a machine learning algorithm on the DP, but only that the algorithm likely was developed using machine learning. This sort of thing is done all the time, and the resulting algorithms are often used on slow embedded controllers.
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Could anyone tell me if Im purchasing a new Nu1x when I could reasonable expect the piano to be already loaded with the v2.10 software. Not sure I can rely on a dealer knowing this information. Just wondering if recent purchasers of Nu1x had the 2.00 software update loaded on or did everyone have to do that update themselves ? Does it list in the manual or in the piano menus what software is loaded on the piano? Could I expect the dealer to do the update for me or is it really easy? Thanks again.
Just wondering if recent purchasers of Nu1x had the 2.00 software update loaded on or did everyone have to do that update themselves ? Does it list in the manual or in the piano menus what software is loaded on the piano? Could I expect the dealer to do the update for me or is it really easy? Thanks again.
Mine had 2.00 when it arrived. I recall seeing a manufacture date somewhere in my paperwork. I can check that when I get home and see how it compares to the publication of the 2.00 update (if the update is still available online).
My instrument was delivered to me boxed and bound, so I'm pretty sure my dealer did not do the update. The update was pretty easy, but there may be some gotchas if you are using a Mac.
I'm a bit skeptical that they'd introduce machine learning if they weren't already using it for other things on this device. I bet the instrument is pretty constrained on CPU, memory, and storage.
I believe QuasiUnaFantasia didn't mean that they are now running a machine learning algorithm on the DP, but only that the algorithm likely was developed using machine learning. This sort of thing is done all the time, and the resulting algorithms are often used on slow embedded controllers.
Precisely! If properly constructed the model could probably be contained in a few hundred bytes (or even less), and the execution of it would be very fast and undemanding in terms of RAM.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
Thank you. I do have Mac. 😢😱. I can always get someone e with a pc to do the download to a stick. Am I right in thinking after download is on stick I just turn piano on after inserted or insert stick after piano is turned on? Sorry I’m useless with tec. It’s embarrassing.😟
Thank you. I do have Mac. 😢😱. I can always get someone e with a pc to do the download to a stick. Am I right in thinking after download is on stick I just turn piano on after inserted or insert stick after piano is turned on? Sorry I’m useless with tec. It’s embarrassing.😟
There are instructions complete with pictures when you download the update. Basically you turn off the DP. Insert the flash drive into the USB port, turn it on holding down the Play/Pause key and follow the instructions. The whole thing takes less than 5 minutes.
BTW if you are getting the NU1X and want to use the Smart Pianist app you will need to get the WiFi adapter for it. It has an absurd US price of $150 but you should be able to negotiate that down quite a bit or get it thrown in for "free" when you purchase the piano.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Seriously, why is the white version out of stock everywhere? I have 11 different retailers on my list, one of them being Thomann, and none have the white version in stock. What’s up with that...
Mine came also with version 2.0, so chances are high a new bought instrument is updated with the newest version.
A manual update is done less than 2 minutes and easy to do (and thank you Yamaha for not stealing me 2 hours of playtime like Kawai ;))
@ iLogic: Where are you from?
Last edited by Tyr; 05/22/1902:31 PM.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
BTW if you are getting the NU1X and want to use the Smart Pianist app you will need to get the WiFi adapter for it. It has an absurd US price of $150 but you should be able to negotiate that down quite a bit or get it thrown in for "free" when you purchase the piano.
In the case of the Yamaha N1X that I just bought, I did get the dealer to "throw it in for free" (I put quotes around this, since of course, the dealer made enough money to cover the dealer-cost of the adapter, so "free" is not really free to me).
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Seriously, why is the white version out of stock everywhere? I have 11 different retailers on my list, one of them being Thomann, and none have the white version in stock. What’s up with that...
The white version is available on kirstein.de and a rather cheap delivery option for sweden available.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
Seriously, why is the white version out of stock everywhere? I have 11 different retailers on my list, one of them being Thomann, and none have the white version in stock. What’s up with that...
The white version is available on kirstein.de and a rather cheap delivery option for sweden available.
It depends on the store. Traditionally the white version is always a bit more expensive. On musicstore.de the white version costs 4555 € and the ebony version 4390 €. My local dealer holds a white version for 4595 €, the black one is also at 4390 €.
Last edited by Tyr; 05/22/1906:05 PM.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
Did we come to a conclusion: eradicated, improved, masked, not enough data, more testing required, etc...?
It's been 3 days a few hours of playing I'm calling it eradicated. What's amazing is that there appears to be no compromise on anything else. However they did it they removed the loud note issue with surgical precision.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
This is great. I wonder if Yamaha will update the user manual and edit out the part where it talks about the loud note issue and that ‘this is normal’.
This is great. I wonder if Yamaha will update the user manual and edit out the part where it talks about the loud note issue and that ‘this is normal’.
They would have to edit it out - otherwise if your piano doesn't do it, there's something wrong!
Have you tried to reproduce the issue in the way I demonstrated in my video: press a key and then release it slightly below top position, hold it there and then press again. You should be able to feel the key is very light (not pushing the hammer) which allows for you to accelerate it to very high velocities, i.e. loud notes. You need to experiment a little to learn where that position is. If you feel the hammer, you’ve released it too high. If you haven’t released it enough the system knows the key is still slightly pressed and won’t be fooled which was there even before the fix. So you need to find a narrow window where the system thinks the key is released but at the same time it’s not and the hammer is not engaged.
It depends on the store. Traditionally the white version is always a bit more expensive. On musicstore.de the white version costs 4555 € and the ebony version 4390 €. My local dealer holds a white version for 4595 €, the black one is also at 4390 €.
Thanks for the link but the white version was rather pricey there, over 5000€. I’ve contacted a few retailers and asked for when they have them back in stock, but one already replied something in line with “God only knows when Yamaha supplies it againâ€
Maybe white is harder to sell. When I bought my DP, the price was dropped on sale at Thomann, but white had its price reduced a couple of weeks earlier. Maybe they'd just ordered to many though...
Have you tried to reproduce the issue in the way I demonstrated in my video: press a key and then release it slightly below top position, hold it there and then press again. You should be able to feel the key is very light (not pushing the hammer) which allows for you to accelerate it to very high velocities, i.e. loud notes. You need to experiment a little to learn where that position is. If you feel the hammer, you’ve released it too high. If you haven’t released it enough the system knows the key is still slightly pressed and won’t be fooled which was there even before the fix. So you need to find a narrow window where the system thinks the key is released but at the same time it’s not and the hammer is not engaged.
I tried your method on several keys for around 20 minutes with no success. It's the same method i used before the update where a sudden lout note appeared 2 - 3 times.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
It depends on the store. Traditionally the white version is always a bit more expensive. On musicstore.de the white version costs 4555 € and the ebony version 4390 €. My local dealer holds a white version for 4595 €, the black one is also at 4390 €.
Thanks for the link but the white version was rather pricey there, over 5000€. I’ve contacted a few retailers and asked for when they have them back in stock, but one already replied something in line with “God only knows when Yamaha supplies it againâ€
In Denmark, www.digitalpiano.dk claim that expected delivery is 2-3 days longer (but they don't directly say what they compare it to!) However the white version is 13% more expensive than the black version.
EDIT: Kirstein in Germany have it in stock (expensively):
Last edited by QuasiUnaFantasia; 05/23/1904:54 AM.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?
I don't know what your question is, but the NU1X Speaker System is one of the best on the market.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
I don't know what your question is, but the NU1X Speaker System is one of the best on the market.
I am mostly thinking if NU1-X will have any better version as N3 is to N1 ( for which the most relevant change is the speaker system ) . I would like an upright action, but with a powerul multichannel speaker setup. As far as I've read, NU1-X has 2 45W speakers. In a bigger cabinet, they could place more, and have the sound being more immersive for the player and fill the room up better.
I would suggest try it by yourself. The NU1X has a total 180W speaker setup:
Amplifiers: (45 W + 45 W) x 2 Speakers: (16 cm + 1.9 cm) x 2
Last edited by Tyr; 05/23/1905:19 AM.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
I would suggest try it by yourself. The NU1X has a total 180W speaker setup:
Amplifiers: (45 W + 45 W) x 2 Speakers: (16 cm + 1.9 cm) x 2
I will try to search for one out of curiosity, but I tested the Yamaha CLP 685 and I wasn't that impressed about how the sound was projecting, so I doubt the NU1-X will be better.
I'm looking for a sophisticated setup similar to what Roland is currently offering, so that you get the impression you are enveloped by sound(I think Yamaha N2 was in the same boat). Taken from Roland's speakers specs page:
Cabinet Speakers: 25 cm (9-7/8 inches) x 2 (with Speaker Box) Near-field Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 (with Speaker Box) Spatial Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 Spatial Speakers: 2.5 cm (1 inches) x 2 (Dome type)
Have you tried to reproduce the issue in the way I demonstrated in my video: press a key and then release it slightly below top position, hold it there and then press again. You should be able to feel the key is very light (not pushing the hammer) which allows for you to accelerate it to very high velocities, i.e. loud notes. You need to experiment a little to learn where that position is. If you feel the hammer, you’ve released it too high. If you haven’t released it enough the system knows the key is still slightly pressed and won’t be fooled which was there even before the fix. So you need to find a narrow window where the system thinks the key is released but at the same time it’s not and the hammer is not engaged.
I tried your method on several keys for around 20 minutes with no success. It's the same method i used before the update where a sudden lout note appeared 2 - 3 times.
That's promising. I think we need some time for people to confirm it has been fixed and I will start recommending NU1X to people again because IMO it's the best hybrid for the money right now
[quote=Tyr]I will try to search for one out of curiosity, but I tested the Yamaha CLP 685 and I wasn't that impressed about how the sound was projecting, so I doubt the NU1-X will be better.
Trust me, the NU1X sounds nowhere near as the CLP-685.
As i said, you should try it on yourself.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
Have you tried to reproduce the issue in the way I demonstrated in my video: press a key and then release it slightly below top position, hold it there and then press again. You should be able to feel the key is very light (not pushing the hammer) which allows for you to accelerate it to very high velocities, i.e. loud notes. You need to experiment a little to learn where that position is. If you feel the hammer, you’ve released it too high. If you haven’t released it enough the system knows the key is still slightly pressed and won’t be fooled which was there even before the fix. So you need to find a narrow window where the system thinks the key is released but at the same time it’s not and the hammer is not engaged.
I tried your method on several keys for around 20 minutes with no success. It's the same method i used before the update where a sudden lout note appeared 2 - 3 times.
That's promising. I think we need some time for people to confirm it has been fixed and I will start recommending NU1X to people again because IMO it's the best hybrid for the money right now
I just spent another 10 minutes trying to recreate it using that method and was unable to. The only thing I get is once or twice there was a slightly louder note but I think that was more my playing and that I was actively looking for something. When I am not trying to recreate it and just playing normally I don't notice anything. Usually I would get it at least once or twice during a practice session.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
I will try to search for one out of curiosity, but I tested the Yamaha CLP 685 and I wasn't that impressed about how the sound was projecting, so I doubt the NU1-X will be better.
I'm looking for a sophisticated setup similar to what Roland is currently offering, so that you get the impression you are enveloped by sound(I think Yamaha N2 was in the same boat). Taken from Roland's speakers specs page:
Cabinet Speakers: 25 cm (9-7/8 inches) x 2 (with Speaker Box) Near-field Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 (with Speaker Box) Spatial Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 Spatial Speakers: 2.5 cm (1 inches) x 2 (Dome type)
Don't fall into the spec trap. Here is a link to a thread I started on that topic regarding the NU1X and others that you are looking at. You really need to try it out for yourself and see what you think. From my perspective the NU1X was the most immersive experience.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?
Sorry if I am offtopic!
You realize that the LX708 has a simulated grand piano action and not an upright action?
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
I will try to search for one out of curiosity, but I tested the Yamaha CLP 685 and I wasn't that impressed about how the sound was projecting, so I doubt the NU1-X will be better.
I'm looking for a sophisticated setup similar to what Roland is currently offering, so that you get the impression you are enveloped by sound(I think Yamaha N2 was in the same boat). Taken from Roland's speakers specs page:
Cabinet Speakers: 25 cm (9-7/8 inches) x 2 (with Speaker Box) Near-field Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 (with Speaker Box) Spatial Speakers: (12 cm (4-3/4 inches) x 8 cm (3-3/16 inches)) x 2 Spatial Speakers: 2.5 cm (1 inches) x 2 (Dome type)
Don't fall into the spec trap. Here is a link to a thread I started on that topic regarding the NU1X and others that you are looking at. You really need to try it out for yourself and see what you think. From my perspective the NU1X was the most immersive experience.
Thanks for pointing me to the thread. I hope I will be able to find one NU1X close, and if I will get the chance to play one, I will try to summarize what I felt
Amazing news!! Now i have something to think about. I initially wanted a nu1x, but i won't spend such an amount of money on any piano with a flaw like that. So instead i bought a nice used U3, and while i love it more and more everyday as i get better at playing it, i still can't play it enough because of neighbours.
The Nu1x is now an option again. It's nice, still not as nice as an acoustic, and i would not like to trade in my U3 if it wasn't for my neighbour problem, but being able to always play it is so important that i might consider it.
So, only the Nu1x gets the update? No love for the older Nu1? That would suck for Nu1 owners.
It would be good for you to test the NU1X thoroughly at the dealer. Some members have indicated that it has been completely eradicated -and we all want that to be the case- but this is still a preliminary state. Once the instrument has been played for days (not just hours) by different people with different musical backgrounds we’ll have a more ‘conclusive’ report. For example, one member indicated that the issue was not as prominent/frequent but to some extent the issue was still there. Fingers crossed, it’s gone for good.
Oh im definitely in no hurry. I actually really want to keep my acoustic, and i have yet to look into options like sound isolation. Maybe the neighbour problem is (partly) fixable. But it's nice to know now the Nu1x option is there, and i will be testing it more at the dealer.
In my opinion the Nu1x is the best digital piano out there in a somewhat reasonable price range. (I don't care for the looks of all digital grands)
It would be good for you to test the NU1X thoroughly at the dealer. Some members have indicated that it has been completely eradicated -and we all want that to be the case- but this is still a preliminary state. Once the instrument has been played for days (not just hours) by different people with different musical backgrounds we’ll have a more ‘conclusive’ report. For example, one member indicated that the issue was not as prominent/frequent but to some extent the issue was still there. Fingers crossed, it’s gone for good.
It depends on the store. Traditionally the white version is always a bit more expensive. On musicstore.de the white version costs 4555 € and the ebony version 4390 €. My local dealer holds a white version for 4595 €, the black one is also at 4390 €.
Thanks for the link but the white version was rather pricey there, over 5000€. I’ve contacted a few retailers and asked for when they have them back in stock, but one already replied something in line with “God only knows when Yamaha supplies it againâ€
In Denmark, www.digitalpiano.dk claim that expected delivery is 2-3 days longer (but they don't directly say what they compare it to!) However the white version is 13% more expensive than the black version.
EDIT: Kirstein in Germany have it in stock (expensively):
The neighbor might be thinking of how to fix the "piano" problem next door!
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Neighbours, a flawed invention. When will an update with a fix be released for this problem...
One way to fix the neighbour problem is of course to bluntly murder them. But I would advise caution before taking this step; murder is illegal in many jurisdictions, and although murdering people unappreciative of piano playing would obviously leave you on the moral high ground, there could be issues. Certainly it would be sensible to cover your tracks, should you pursue this option.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
Neighbours, a flawed invention. When will an update with a fix be released for this problem...
LOL. I am totally intimidated by the skill level displayed by my neighbor. She was hammering out some Rachmaninoff yesterday, she is an excellent player. Now that the weather is warmer, her windows are open, and our apartments are almost on the same level, but she’s in another building across an open courtyard.
When you live in a neighborhood in New York that’s full of musicians, this is what you get. I hope my classical guitar playing does not reach her ears. As for the piano, I’ll stick to headphones for a few more years.
Hi Tyr. Noticed you’ve owned and no longer own th clp 685 and CA98. Clp 685 was on my list as was the cs11 which is basically the same as a CA98. Can you tell me what it was about the 685 and CA98 that did not work for you. Was it the sound through speakers or the action. Could you just give me a quick run down of what you did and didn’t like about them and why you chose the Nu1x ultimately. Thank you for your time.
Hi Tyr. Noticed you’ve owned and no longer own th clp 685 and CA98. Clp 685 was on my list as was the cs11 which is basically the same as a CA98. Can you tell me what it was about the 685 and CA98 that did not work for you. Was it the sound through speakers or the action. Could you just give me a quick run down of what you did and didn’t like about them and why you chose the Nu1x ultimately. Thank you for your time.
The CA-98 wasn't just for me. The soundboard didn't produced the sound i expected. There was no pressure in bass and the overall sound was boxy like using a tin can phone. Due to the soundboard, it isn't designed to play at low volume. The transducers need some power to get the soundboard swinging. Also the look wasn't very pleasant to me, but that's a minor issue. The key action was good. Later, after the purchase of the NV10 i realized, that the Kawai and their sound is simply not for me. There are several other issues like managing favorites etc. that bothered me but essentially , i wasn't happy with the sound production.
The CLP-685 is a different Story. The speaker setup is nice (better than CA98 or Novus imho) but it sounds not like its advertised (marketing blah blah). In comparison with the NU1X it sounds more digital and brighter. The key action is way heavier than the Grand Feel 2 in the CS11/CA98. It feels a little binary and uncomfortable. After a while it gets better when used to it but there is something strange in the feeling that will never go away. As i teased above, i wanted an NV10 and sold the CLP for it. Later i came back to Yamaha and had to choose between the NU1X and the CLP-685 again. I played both side by side and it was a no brainer which one i will buy (even with the loud note issue).
I don't needed a 16 track recorder or an led screen, layering voices or having dozens of voices i'll never use.
So it's up to you which features are a must.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
This is great thank you so much. I was feeling the same. Was kinda thinking the 685 was warmer sounding but I think the action will bother me. Kawai gets such great reviews but it just wasn’t for me. It felt and sounded like I was sitting at a digital more Thani was expecting. I’m going to buy the Nu1x. Thank you so much.
If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.
Before I bought my FP-30 I tried both the 685 and the NU1X. First I played the 685 for a while, feeling like I needed to use a sledge hammer to actually get the keys to move, and then I turned to the NU1X; that felt like being released from prison. What a difference! I seem to concur with others here: these two instruments, despite being priced somewhat similarly, cannot possibly aim at the same people. The NU1X is a joy, the 685 is a punishment.
Last edited by QuasiUnaFantasia; 05/23/1910:12 AM.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.
It seems like you still have feelings for the NU1X; an affair is a risky proposition at this junction because it could lead to a separation from the N1X and a reunion with your first true love: NU1X!
If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.
It seems like you still have feelings for the NU1X; an affair is a risky proposition at this junction because it could lead to a separation from the N1X and a reunion with your first true love: NU1X!
Meetings with old flames are always dangerous. This happened to me once when I was invited for a coffee... Only to have my then girlfriend, now wife find out, post facto...
I recommend CyberGene put all thoughts of the NU1X firmly out of his mind for domestic peace of mind!
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.
It seems like you still have feelings for the NU1X; an affair is a risky proposition at this junction because it could lead to a separation from the N1X and a reunion with your first true love: NU1X!
Well, yes and no N1X is almost twice as expensive as NU1X and it's not twice better Which is why the NU1X is better value. However N1X is better than NU1X in every other respect. I think if the loud note issue was fixed while I still had the NU1X and I mean *really* fixed, I would have kept it. Yet, for one reason or another, I ended up with the N1X and it is the better instrument, I love it in every way, I can't find a single fault with it and it didn't break my account. I simply see no reason to downgrade. The only possible reason would eventually be a financial one. If I have to start all over again, I would purchase the N1X, straight But if I am on a tight budget and can stretch only to the NU1X, I wouldn't hesitate and would not feel bad about not spending more for the N1X. Hope that makes it clear
P.S. Well, I realize even NU1X isn't exactly what people "on a tight budget" purchase... But you know what I meant by that
If we're talking about choosing between a a NU1X and any other non-hybrid digital piano (loud note issue aside), there's simply no contest here. The immediate impression from NU1 and NU1X after playing any Clavinova, or any other digital piano for that matter, was for me a WOW moment.
My friend, a musical genius with a degree in composition from Columbia University, loves his NU1 and says that he’s used to playing upright actions because that’s all he’s ever played on, for the most part. When he got to grands, he said he liked the Baldwins. He says that after I’ve been practicing for five or six hours, for years, I can think about upgrading, lol. He also said I should put aside anything to do with numbers when sitting down at a piano.
Well, I've said that many times but I've grown playing an upright. Maybe I'm too used to upright actions but a NU1/X immediately feels like a real piano unlike other (non-hybrid) digital pianos. The control, the feel, the sound! It may not have the grand-piano repetition but so many people all over the world play upright pianos, some of them real virtuoso players, and many of them love their pianos
Cybergene, im curious to know what makes the N1x a better piano to the Nu1x, could you explain?
I understand of course it has the better action, that's the obvious part.
Then, i read it also has hammer sensors, i wonder what does this improve, and if the loud note issue is truely fixed on the nu1x, do you think the extra sensors are a noticable improvement somehow compared to the nu1x's keyboard only sensors?
How about the speaker system/sound projection? That's probably better on the N1x? And if yes, how much better would you say it is?
I'm guessing headphone sound is the same.
You seem like the person with the knowledge and experience to be able to answer all these questions.
So, only the Nu1x gets the update? No love for the older Nu1? That would suck for Nu1 owners.
I’m an NU1 owner but have not experienced the problem. Probably my level of play or choice of music. Anyway I asked Yamaha about the firmware upgrade, and they said no plans at this time for the NU1. I don’t have GAS for an upgrade, except perhaps a cheaper N2 or the mythical N2X, but maybe the NU1X with it’s new playability (!), extra voices, audio interface, app integration would be an option. Anything else? I have to find and play one in a store. I know Bonners do p/x.
Well, I've said that many times but I've grown playing an upright. Maybe I'm too used to upright actions but a NU1/X immediately feels like a real piano unlike other (non-hybrid) digital pianos. The control, the feel, the sound! It may not have the grand-piano repetition but so many people all over the world play upright pianos, some of them real virtuoso players, and many of them love their pianos
Of course this is the problem with all of the videos out there. Whatever digital piano you have someone will have posted some amazing videos and you have to fess up that it isn't the equipment that was the problem... When I was playing my 50+ year old Baldwin spinet I could at least pretend that it was the piano and not me.
BTW speaking of the spinet I finally got around to taking it apart for disposal this weekend. Looking at Craig's list for while all the postings I saw were people trying to give away pianos that were nicer than mine and the posts were out there for a long time. So I got a wrench, loosened up the strings on the harp and went at it. The parts I could take of with just removing some screws or panels that were supposed to come off did and then out came the sludge hammer. When that wasn't enough the demolition saw did the rest. Most of the innards went out in two large garbage cans. The harp is going to the scrap metal yard, I was going to keep some of the wood panels for woodworking purposes, maybe make something to store music in but now that I have looked at them closer I can see they are plywood veneer so I'll cut them up and put them out with next weeks garbage. I did this on Sunday and then that night I learned of the upgrade for the NU1X. Some good karma there.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
I just think yamaha should update the original Nu1 too, since it's really just a fix for a design flaw. But im guessing they won't, as that could hurt Nu1x sales. Good thing you never had the problem, and don't need any fix!
Cybergene, im curious to know what makes the N1x a better piano to the Nu1x, could you explain?
I understand of course it has the better action, that's the obvious part.
Then, i read it also has hammer sensors, i wonder what does this improve, and if the loud note issue is truely fixed on the nu1x, do you think the extra sensors are a noticable improvement somehow compared to the nu1x's keyboard only sensors?
How about the speaker system/sound projection? That's probably better on the N1x? And if yes, how much better would you say it is?
I'm guessing headphone sound is the same.
Well, as you may have read in my thread about NU1X, the real reason for me to return it was a little bit inconsistent velocity between some keys. Whether that was a malfunction/defect or was a normal thing I don't know, however a procedure for calibration of keys is included in NU1X and not in the N-series (OTOH they say key calibration is automatic, probably linked to the hammers, so it's always very consistent due to the double sensors). So, it's probably a subjective feeling but I think the N1X is slightly more consistent in velocity control and very predictable. That being said, every acoustic piano will have some inconsistencies between keys and only a recent and high quality regulation by a trained technician would bring it back to being smooth and consistent. Anyway, N1X gives me a peace of mind because all seems very predictable. Maybe unnecessarily so but still it feels better in that regard. Then it's the slightly better sound system, and of course the grand piano action which has better repetition. All that is only a slight advantage over NU1X as I said but nevertheless makes it a better instrument in every respect besides price And arguably besides form-factor and appearance.
Well, I've said that many times but I've grown playing an upright. Maybe I'm too used to upright actions but a NU1/X immediately feels like a real piano unlike other (non-hybrid) digital pianos. The control, the feel, the sound! It may not have the grand-piano repetition but so many people all over the world play upright pianos, some of them real virtuoso players, and many of them love their pianos
Of course this is the problem with all of the videos out there. Whatever digital piano you have someone will have posted some amazing videos and you have to fess up that it isn't the equipment that was the problem... When I was playing my 50+ year old Baldwin spinet I could at least pretend that it was the piano and not me.
BTW speaking of the spinet I finally got around to taking it apart for disposal this weekend. Looking at Craig's list for while all the postings I saw were people trying to give away pianos that were nicer than mine and the posts were out there for a long time. So I got a wrench, loosened up the strings on the harp and went at it. The parts I could take of with just removing some screws or panels that were supposed to come off did and then out came the sludge hammer. When that wasn't enough the demolition saw did the rest. Most of the innards went out in two large garbage cans. The harp is going to the scrap metal yard, I was going to keep some of the wood panels for woodworking purposes, maybe make something to store music in but now that I have looked at them closer I can see they are plywood veneer so I'll cut them up and put them out with next weeks garbage. I did this on Sunday and then that night I learned of the upgrade for the NU1X. Some good karma there.
I can’t see shedding any tears over a Baldwin spinet. I lived with one for a while and did not miss it after I left. I found out recently that the person still has the thing, I don’t know why, sentimental reasons, I suppose. I have to believe a NU1X is better than that spinet.
Cybergene thanks for the explanation, and i wish for you many years of peaceful, predictable playing on the N1x, well that doesn't sound nice somehow, but in a positive way.
And of course its also unlikely to go down that way, since it's predictable you will trade in the N1x when the N2x is released.
Well, I've said that many times but I've grown playing an upright. Maybe I'm too used to upright actions but a NU1/X immediately feels like a real piano unlike other (non-hybrid) digital pianos. The control, the feel, the sound! It may not have the grand-piano repetition but so many people all over the world play upright pianos, some of them real virtuoso players, and many of them love their pianos
Thanks for this explanation. My friend says he’s addicted to his NU1 and plays it every day. He’s an advanced player. The NU1X is a viable upgrade path for me from the P-515 if I lose the battle with my wife over getting rid of the credenza, which holds her scarves, in order to bring in an acoustic upright. :-) The NU1X does not take up a lot of room and will fit in the space I have in the bedroom for the P-515. Interesting.
Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?
Sorry if I am offtopic!
You realize that the LX708 has a simulated grand piano action and not an upright action?
Sorry, I missed your comment. Of course I know about it, however I'd like to try an acoustic action without breaking the bank. As far as I know, the big downside of upright actions is only the repetition of notes. Myself, being an amateur, I am playing mostly Yann Tiersen / Einaudi kind of music, struggling with Debussy's reverie ( which is not from the complcated ones ) , so I don't think I'm going to hit the repetition limit of the action! at least I get this benefit from being just an amateur player.
Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?
Sorry if I am offtopic!
You realize that the LX708 has a simulated grand piano action and not an upright action?
Sorry, I missed your comment. Of course I know about it, however I'd like to try an acoustic action without breaking the bank. As far as I know, the big downside of upright actions is only the repetition of notes. Myself, being an amateur, I am playing mostly Yann Tiersen / Einaudi kind of music, struggling with Debussy's reverie ( which is not from the complcated ones ) , so I don't think I'm going to hit the repetition limit of the action! at least I get this benefit from being just an amateur player.
My music major friend kind of laughed at me with regards to the repetition limit and said that he hadn’t known anyone to hit it in all the years he studied piano and attended recitals.
I’m seeing Yann Tiersen on May 28th at the Beacon in New York! Woohoo! Have you seen him live? I hope he’s not too loud, I’m in the front. No worries, I have my 15dB cut plugs.
So, I just took a quick glance of the specs comparing the NU1X with the 685 on the Yamaha website (I know, specs doesn’t tell the whole story) and for some reason they list a gazillion specs for the 685 and like 10 specs for the NU1X, as if it’s lacking a bunch of stuff... whatever.
Something I noticed though, is that the NU1X has VRM (Virtual Resonance Modelling) as compared to Improved VRM on the 685. What’s that about?
NU1X also has the improved VRM with aliquot and body resonances added, compared to regular VRM with only damper and string resonance. BTW N1X uses the regular VRM
From the CLP-685 page that describes the old/new VRM:
Quote
The original VRM calculates the various states of the strings for each of the 88 notes on the keyboard, from one instant to the next, and timing and depth of damper pedals pressed. The enhanced VRM now also calculates aliquot resonance in the upper octaves, and the full resonance of the soundboard, rim, and frame.
From the CLP-685 page that describes the old/new VRM:
Quote
The original VRM calculates the various states of the strings for each of the 88 notes on the keyboard, from one instant to the next, and timing and depth of damper pedals pressed. The enhanced VRM now also calculates aliquot resonance in the upper octaves, and the full resonance of the soundboard, rim, and frame.
Does anyone know if we could hope getting a Yamaha NU3-X with a full upright cabinet? I'm in love with my Roland LX708, and I was thinking that as an amateur, I might like to settle on an upright action for many years to come, but I don't want to spare brilliant sound. I'm currently used with Roland's setup of 8 speakers and with some nice woofers, so does anyone know some updates about Yamaha releasing something like that?
Sorry if I am offtopic!
You realize that the LX708 has a simulated grand piano action and not an upright action?
Sorry, I missed your comment. Of course I know about it, however I'd like to try an acoustic action without breaking the bank. As far as I know, the big downside of upright actions is only the repetition of notes. Myself, being an amateur, I am playing mostly Yann Tiersen / Einaudi kind of music, struggling with Debussy's reverie ( which is not from the complcated ones ) , so I don't think I'm going to hit the repetition limit of the action! at least I get this benefit from being just an amateur player.
My music major friend kind of laughed at me with regards to the repetition limit and said that he hadn’t known anyone to hit it in all the years he studied piano and attended recitals.
I’m seeing Yann Tiersen on May 28th at the Beacon in New York! Woohoo! Have you seen him live? I hope he’s not too loud, I’m in the front. No worries, I have my 15dB cut plugs.
Well, I've had the chance of seeing him live twice! I don't want to spoil anything to you, but to be honest, I liked the first encounter with him a little bit more, since he was playing EUSA back then and a couple of other pieces. (I was a little biased since I'm a sucker for all of his piano pieces, and that concert was 70% solo piano. He's such a master at playing the piano, no one can sound the way he does). On the other hand, the representation you re going to see it's linked with his latest album, which is called All. I love how he plays the piano in this concert as well, although the main male vocalist may sound a little bit odd if you re not used to him!
Anyway, make sure to drink a glass of wine before, I'm sure you'll enjoy. You ll get to hear all the master pieces from the latest album, plus some nice bonus additions, linked to Amelie, which he didn't play usually. I'm sure you'll be impressed with the lighting show as well, and he also has a DJ like person who mixes up synths and things which sound awesome. Please share your oppinion as well after you get the chance to see him. I saw him in Berlin in March, so I think the concert only got better over time.
PS: sorry for the long response, but I needed to say a lot about Yann, since he's the reason why I started taking piano lessons years ago and after all this time, I am still guided by his style.
My music major friend kind of laughed at me with regards to the repetition limit and said that he hadn’t known anyone to hit it in all the years he studied piano and attended recitals.
Am I wrong in thinking that hitting the repetition limit is exactly what is going on when the action blocks and, prior to the recent patch, a loud note occurs?
Am I wrong in thinking that hitting the repetition limit is exactly what is going on when the action blocks and, prior to the recent patch, a loud note occurs?
It's not repetition speed that triggers it, it's the position of the key when you strike a repeated note.
I hit the loud note issue frequently when I play the NU1, and it's because I don't always lift my finger off the key completely when I go to strike it again. Most of the time, I hit the issue with slow/relaxed repetitions rather than quick ones.
I think the ability to reliably restrike a note without fully lifting the key is double-escapement, which is another general difference between grands and uprights, but not directly related to repetition speed.
So, i guess while i didn't understand why Yamaha would release a successor to the Nu1 with the same loud note issue, they were already busy working to fix it.
My music major friend kind of laughed at me with regards to the repetition limit and said that he hadn’t known anyone to hit it in all the years he studied piano and attended recitals.
Send this video to your friend. She can be seen pressing on keys that make no sound:
There are also missing notes here on this upright, but I think in this case the upright is completely broken so that can't be counted against an upright action.
She has this piece so wired, she almost never misses a note when she has played this on a grand:
I don't believe your friend is right. In fact, I'm sure he is wrong. (That doesn't mean you or I will play pieces that test the limits of an upright though, at least not soon.)
Consider that the maximum key repetition rate of an upright action is 7 Hz. So imagine a piece that is crochet/quarter-note = 120 BPM. so there are two beats a second. Now give the piece a single pair of 16th note that repeat (e.g., Ondine-like pieces). That already requires 8 Hz and exceeds the maximum of 7 Hz. Unless you use rubato on that measure, the second note of the pair will sometimes not make a sound.
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Ok, I sent the first video to him and asked him for his thoughts. His is just one opinion, I know other people have different opinions. I know I don’t have five or six hours a day to practice, for decades, to reach his level of playing, it’s just not going to happen for me, I have to be realistic. I just found it interesting that he had never run into this problem among the pianists he hung out with in music school.
I showed him the magnet repetition mechanism on the Seiler and he didn’t feel that it was necessary for me to buy a piano with that feature. I wanted to take him to a showroom to get his opinion playing one of those pianos but Seiler has no dealers in Manhattan, only way out in Long Island, and he is a busy guy.
My friend responded to the video and said, yes, he sees that happening and he thinks it’s cool that people are solving hardware problems like this, but I think it’s fair to say that he sticks by his assertion that this was not a problem he encountered in music school.
I think the more interesting topic is how adult musicians should be kind to themselves when, after ten years or more, they have not reached the level of a virtuoso on the instrument. Piano will be my third instrument where that will be true, after, first, violin, and, second, classical guitar.
My duo partner, on the classical guitar, has let other people’s virtuosity interfere with her ability to feel any joy in playing music. She has told me that she feels that every note she plays sounds like crap, based on how she has seen others play on YouTube. I disagree, and argue to contrary, to no avail.
I strive to maintain a child’s joy in being able to play any music, regardless of how poorly. I am like the students described in this video:
Samuel Beckett, the Irish playwright, used to say that it was “time to shift Mozart in his grave†whenever he sat down to play at the piano. I do not expect to reach a level where any composer will remain in quiet repose while I am at the keyboard. No repeating mechanism is going to change that.
I doubt many on this forum, me included, will be able to ever play the La Campanella, even on a grand piano Same for Ondine. One or two pieces, big deal. Not an argument against upright pianos IMO
I doubt many on this forum, me included, will be able to ever play the La Campanella, even on a grand piano Same for Ondine. One or two pieces, big deal. Not an argument against upright pianos IMO
Succinctly put, I agree.
I am going to shift my focus from the speed of the notes to the quality of the tone and will strive to find an upright that has a tone which is pleasing to my ear. That might be a hybrid or it might be an acoustic, I’m going to make that decision in five years.
EDIT: I hope I didn't just cause anyone to break into uncontrollable laughter while they were drinking something!
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
EDIT: I hope I didn't just cause anyone to break into uncontrollable laughter while they were drinking something!
Well, that’s all very moving I’m being serious.
Well to give some idea of the zero level I was at in 2018 when I bought this Roland FP-30 that is being replace today (yay!) - the absolute zero below which there is only an inverted Boltzmann distribution - I didn't know pianos all had 88 keys and I actually thought that La Campanella was a piece I would be able to self-teach myself to in two years. Well at the 15-month point, I am taking two piano lessons a week, and nowhere close to the goal. I've revised this goal now to seven years. (There may be those that still snorted out something they were drinking!)
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
They don't. 88 keys is a relatively modern invention, in earlier times 85 keys was the norm. The grand I grew up playing has 85. I don't know when the three extra keys came ind, but it must have been sometime in the early half of the 20th century.
Physical instruments: Roland FP-30, and E-28 Virtual instruments: "The Experience" piano collection, NI "The Maverick", Galaxy II Grand piano collection, Synthogy Ivory II Studio Grands, Production Voices Estate Grand, Garritan CFX Lite, Pianoteq 7.5.2 Focus: 1850±100 years
OK, Tyrone, its game time. I fully expect blow by blow postings on the delivery of the N1X after your extensive research. You know, pictures of the delivery, moving it into the room, first song played videos etc. Doesn't need to be done in real time, a 10 minute delay in postings would be acceptable.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
The thing about studying a musical instrument is that it is never a straight climb, there are many ups and downs, and times when you feel completely lost, and you feel that you’re making very little progress. I think this feeling becomes more pronounced as you become an intermediate player, because the incremental progress becomes smaller.
A friend of mine is working on a few measures in the Aria from Bach’s Goldberg Variations. The ornaments are driving him crazy. He’s spent hours on just a couple of measures. If you do the math and factor in a person’s lifespan, it doesn’t look good, but, I say, play on! Dream!
I’ve posted this many times but I always find people who haven’t read it. It’s an essay by Lynn Harrell, the cellist, and is full of advice for musicians who are about to embark on a career:
Status Update: The loud note issue has still not happened. Yesterday 3 hours of practice, today two hours.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
My friend finished up this discussion by saying that after fifty years of playing, he rarely finds a piece in which he is held back by the repetition of a single note. He says there are a zillion other musical challenges before that one, and that the music makes the playing worthwhile, not the hardware.
My friend finished up this discussion by saying that after fifty years of playing, he rarely finds a piece in which he is held back by the repetition of a single note. He says there are a zillion other musical challenges before that one, and that the music makes the playing worthwhile, not the hardware.
Well, and as mentioned above, forum member ando did come up with an innovative way to handle soft and fast note repetition in Ondine on an upright, so there may be workarounds for at least some cases where a problem occurs, even if the workarounds are not straight-forward or obvious.
Also note that Lisitsa was willing to give La Campanella a go on both of the uprights even though she was likely expecting that there would be missing notes - but in both cases, she wasn't playing a concert in a concert hall and expected the audience to be unlikely to even notice any missing notes. So it's really only a problem when you set your standards too high.
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
My friend finished up this discussion by saying that after fifty years of playing, he rarely finds a piece in which he is held back by the repetition of a single note. He says there are a zillion other musical challenges before that one, and that the music makes the playing worthwhile, not the hardware.
Well, and as mentioned above, forum member ando did come up with an innovative way to handle soft and fast note repetition in Ondine on an upright, so there may be workarounds for at least some cases where a problem occurs, even if the solutions are not straight-forward or obvious.
Yes, I saw that, I just don’t think I’ll ever play that piece.
Like I mentioned, I am going to seek refuge in tone. That refuge has served me well with my classical guitars. Having a lovely tone is worth far more to me than being able to repeat notes quickly. Even after ten years of studying the classical guitar, I regularly see professional players who will play faster than I will ever be able to play. It’s a hard truth that I have come to accept. My motor skills are not going to improve in that direction as I age.
I am a adult beginner. Only 6 months practicing every day and enjoying a lot the challenge. I have a Korg Grandstage that sounds really good with headphones and steinway sampling. Other pianos are average. I would even say that I find the korg sound more pleasing that the acoustic (basic) yamaha of the music school. I have not heard an acoustic upright that I liked (apart Bechstein 116). I would love to have a Steinway O180 one day ... in a house ... and be able to play something else than the lesson 56 of the Alfred book ...
What I don’t like : 1. The upright acoustic piano at school has a complete different touch, so it takes some time to adapt. Also it gives me the impression I will not learn well 2. Resonance is a bit too systematic / repetitive 3 pedal doesn’t sound very nartral
Therefore my question : what is the best instrument for a beginner ? - NU1x as it will take 5 yrs+ (Or forever) to reach its limits, and the touch will be very similar to the one at school. It is also more compact and will fit well in place of the korg. - N1x, as it is better, and I should benefit from it sooner that I believe. I don’t consider the budget gap as a criteria, better invest 3k more now than loosing more during the upgrade.
The easy - and obvious, and correct - answer is to get to a store and play both of these. And just because you're a "beginner" doesn't mean you won't have a meaningful reaction to the differences between the two models.
It's also easy to say that the N1X is "better" - particularly because of the grand action. So it's not going to be wrong to just go ahead and buy it, especially if you respond positively when you sit down and play it.
Having said the above, I smile whenever I sit down at an NU1X (or the previous NU1) at my local dealer. It's fun, I like it! And there's something to be said for its compact footprint.
I you don't consider the cost, I think the best instrument between those 2 is simply the N1X. My trusted sources told me it's better than the Nu1x, but not by alot.
That said, maybe it IS better to practice on a worse (more difficult) action? I don't know, to me there is logic in this way of thinking. Not that the Nu1(x) action is bad, it's great, but it is still an upright action.
Nevertheless if budget and esthetics are no issue I would personally just choose the better piano.
Well, I am trying to find a shop with both pianos but didn’t find yet n my region. I could only try the Kawai nv10 and must say I didn’t like the sound. Mid bass was not natural sounding and treble was too bright.
I have the feeling that it will take years before I play fast enough and before I am capable of playing the nuances that a grand action might enable. Maybe an upright action enables to deelop the fingers muscles better ??? (Sorry if this is a stupid idea).
Anyhow good to know that you still enjoy the NU1x even if you have the better one.
I wouldn't use the term "better" in this case. The most differences between the NU1X and the N1X are plain a matter of personal taste and budget. Both instruments are fine and a joy to play and have nearly the identical features. I for myself prefer a grand action but i won't trade in my NU1X for an N1X for that. The NU1X action is a bit heavier due to the fact it's an upright action, but very straight and offers a unique feel to play compared to the grand mimicking actions on the DP (non hybrid) market.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
Well, I am trying to find a shop with both pianos but didn’t find yet n my region. I could only try the Kawai nv10 and must say I didn’t like the sound. Mid bass was not natural sounding and treble was too bright.
I have the feeling that it will take years before I play fast enough and before I am capable of playing the nuances that a grand action might enable. Maybe an upright action enables to deelop the fingers muscles better ??? (Sorry if this is a stupid idea).
Anyhow good to know that you still enjoy the NU1x even if you have the better one.
Many thanks
Marc I had some of the same feelings as you. I was playing on a Roland FP-30 for about 9 months as a complete beginner. I found that I enjoyed playing and started taking lessons after a few months of doing an online course. When I went to one of our local piano dealers, I happened to sit down at the NU1X and instantly was blown away. However, I thought that I wasn't advanced enough to really "deserve" it. I purchased it anyway, and I'm really happy I did. The level of enjoyment I get from playing it is head and shoulders beyond what playing the Roland gives me--and don't get me wrong: the Roland is a great instrument, too.
My teacher was happy with my decision as well because (as he rightly pointed out) if you enjoy playing it, you'll practice more and become a better player.
Bottom line: don't let your lack of experience deter you from getting something that you will enjoy and grow into; I think you'll be glad you did.
Thank you all. Looks like the NU1x makes sense for me today. And if I deserve an upgrade in some years time, I will have the pleasure to go fot the N1z ! Next step is to confirm with a test, still need to find where.
We will see in the next weeks/months.But for now it seems that the issue is gone.
Kawai: NV5 | Yamaha: CLP-745R Pianoteq 7 Pro | Garritan CFX Full | Vienna Imperial | Keyscape Full | Ravenscroft 275 - Modern U - Model D - AG | Minigrand | The Oeser
We will see in the next weeks/months.But for now it seems that the issue is gone.
This is so awesome! I don't have a NU1X, but I'm so happy for all of you who do. I really think Yamaha should advertise this "improvement!"
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Wow, this is truly great. Just recently I watched an NU1X video on YouTube where most of the comments stated the superb quality of this instrument, ‘if not for that loud note’. I’m assuming all the returns, negative -loud note- reviews, and warranty calls eventually got to Yamaha!
Wow, this is truly great. Just recently I watched an NU1X video on YouTube where most of the comments stated the superb quality of this instrument, ‘if not for that loud note’. I’m assuming all the returns, negative -loud note- reviews, and warranty calls eventually got to Yamaha!
Well, good grief, finally! Maybe I can include it on my short list now.
Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-( I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...
Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-( I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...
You own a TransAcoustic, wow, which one?
I’m excited by the idea, if not the cost. Do you have trouble keeping the real strings in tune with the digital sounds?
What has been your experience with the piano? How long have you owned it? Are you happy you bought it?
The TransAcoustic is on my list if my wife will not agree to having both an acoustic piano and a digital piano in the apartment.
Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-( I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...
Might be worth directly asking Yamaha if they don’t already list any firmware updates on their website for the TA? I own an NU1 and there are no firmware updates listed at all, and yet I know they exist for service technicians. I did ask about the playability update for the NU1 but the answer was still no.
Didn’t get the best deal ever (man, these retailers are tough...) but I still feel somewhat happy, and thus, I will make up my mind when the last 2 guys get back to me. Then begins the waiting game. Apparently the NU1X would be mine late June/early July if I ordered it soon, since it was shipped to Europe in the end of May, and from there it took about a month for it to reach the retailers.
Unfortunately for Transacoustic owners, no patch is available on Yamaha website :-( I hope they will make an effort, but the number of Transacoustic owners is surely less than Nu1x ...
Might be worth directly asking Yamaha if they don’t already list any firmware updates on their website for the TA? I own an NU1 and there are no firmware updates listed at all, and yet I know they exist for service technicians. I did ask about the playability update for the NU1 but the answer was still no.
I also own a NU1 and started wondering the same. Now that we know the NU1X firmware update is effective, we should all open support tickets requesting the corresponding update for the NU1 (or TAs). I’m hoping it’s not too much of a development effort to port the NU1X solution to the NU1. He’s the email response I received from Yamaha when I opened a ticket:
“First off, according to my contacts in product development, a similar firmware update for the NU1 is being prepared for release. Look out for this fix within the next few months.â€
Maybe I’m being naive but I’m cautiously optimistic.
That being said, he also recommended working with a servicer to investige the condition of the action regulation, to see if any improvements can be made before the update is available, which in my opinion is not likely to yield any results, as I’ve had this problem since early on.
Last edited by Herq; 05/28/1911:40 PM. Reason: typo
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