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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2849627
05/18/19 12:05 PM
05/18/19 12:05 PM
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One time, I brought back several of the same model headphones from work to test out on my CP50. None of them sounded the same, in quality or volume. That was quite surprising to me. It's possible that one or more were blown out at some point, but they all functioned well independently, but required drastically different volume/EQ settings from the instrument.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2849836
05/19/19 05:25 AM
05/19/19 05:25 AM
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I ordered a N1X after comparing the N1X and NV10 at a local store. I liked both action and the sound better on the N1X.

Did anyone pay attention to the smell right after the delivery?
The N1X will be placed close to my bed, but if it smells a lot it might be better to set it up in another room first.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2849839
05/19/19 05:34 AM
05/19/19 05:34 AM
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Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
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Congrats and welcome to the club.

I still sense some processed wood smell from time to time but it’s kind of pleasant to me smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: nax] #2849845
05/19/19 06:01 AM
05/19/19 06:01 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by nax
I liked both action and the sound better on the N1X.

Same. Side by side, I was actually shocked how much I preferred the sound of the N1X. Before my A-B comparison, I thought both would be comparable with pluses and minuses, with regard to sound. But it turned out I was wrong and it wasn't a toss up after all. For me, the N1X sound was clearly superior using headphones.

Didn't you say something like that yourself CyberGene after listening to the CA96 or 98?

However, with respect to action, it was comparable for me. I guess I'm just not an advanced enough pianist to tell which action is better.

I did note that for me, the pedal behavior on the N1X was vastly superior than the NV10. I found that to half-pedal on the NV10 took far greater precision/fine motor control in my right foot than I possess. It seems the half-pedal point was precisely at one point in the pedal travel, while the N1X pedal was more forgiving.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2849851
05/19/19 06:07 AM
05/19/19 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Didn't you say something like that yourself CyberGene after listening to the CA96 or 98?

After I returned the NU1X and wondered between N1X and NV10 and no way to test either of them, the closest I get to the sound of NV10 was to play a CA78, which according to James is exactly the same sound engine. It was not the first time I played it but was the first time after I had played the NU1X for a month. It was a shocking difference to me and I was convinced I like the CFX sound much more than the SK-EX rendering engine.

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/19/19 06:09 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2849861
05/19/19 06:39 AM
05/19/19 06:39 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Didn't you say something like that yourself CyberGene after listening to the CA96 or 98?

After I returned the NU1X and wondered between N1X and NV10 and no way to test either of them, the closest I get to the sound of NV10 was to play a CA78, which according to James is exactly the same sound engine. It was not the first time I played it but was the first time after I had played the NU1X for a month. It was a shocking difference to me and I was convinced I like the CFX sound much more than the SK-EX rendering engine.

BTW, I don't know if anyone else who had a chance to try the NV10 itself (and not the CA series) and compare it directly to the N1X noticed this, but the NV10 does have what appears to be a better set of speakers than the N1X. They seemed to be more powerful, possibly with greater dynamic range. (Unfortunately, I was running short on time, so I didn't have the chance to really shake this aspect out.) However, for me, the speakers reproduce their audio signal input. And the audio signal input into the N1X speakers was clearly better to my ears than that going into the NV10 speakers, so the fact the speakers seemed better just didn't move the needle much for me, especially as I really can't use speakers at the 2-4am that I typically play my piano. If I had been compare the same VST being played back through those speakers though, say Pianoteq, I might have found the NV10 had a better sound through speakers. This is purely speculation however as I haven't tried Pianoteq, or any VST for that matter, through either the N1X or NV10's speakers.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: CyberGene] #2849862
05/19/19 06:43 AM
05/19/19 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Congrats and welcome to the club.

I still sense some processed wood smell from time to time but it’s kind of pleasant to me smile


Thanks for the feedback. As long as the smell is not too artificial, I will not mind it too much.

About the NV10 comparison. Regarding the action it is probably mostly preference as both are good.
I played the NV10 at two different stores. At the first one the higher keys sounded too loud, almost distorted via the speakers. At the second store, however, it was basically the opposite. Very muffled like when you have a cold and your ear canal is blocked. Maybe it saves the old settings and if a lot of people fiddle with them, it can be difficult to get back to the default settings. Maybe it is also less consistent between individual instruments.
Still I liked the N1X better in both cases (and also better than the sound of the N3X).

Last edited by nax; 05/19/19 06:51 AM.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: nax] #2849864
05/19/19 06:52 AM
05/19/19 06:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,870
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by nax
Still I liked the N1X better in both cases (and also better than the sound of the N3X).

Now that is interesting since the N3X has the same sound generation as the N1X but a soundboard and supposedly better speakers. The piano store where I bought my N1X had an N3X and I did try it a bit, but couldn't turn the volume up so high (the kiddies showed up after school to pound on piano keyboards with their parents... LOL) and so I didn't get a proper test. However I did sense that when not using headphones, the sound was fuller and perhaps more "natural" on the N3X. This was just an impression though since it was obtained through trying the N3X for maybe only about 3 minutes total just to see if there was any reason at all for me to consider the N3X (my use-case being 95% headphone use), and there was not.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2849868
05/19/19 07:07 AM
05/19/19 07:07 AM
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I’m also curious about how Pianoteq sounds through the N1X’s speakers and how it compares to the on-board (CFX) sound.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2849871
05/19/19 07:29 AM
05/19/19 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by nax
At the first one the higher keys sounded too loud, almost distorted via the speakers.


When that happens, I would bet that the "Wall EQ" function was turned on. What I can see is that it really boosts the treble output unrealistically (plus the nv10 doesn't have wall-facing speakers, so it's a bit odd why they're would be a wall EQ control).

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Now that is interesting since the N3X has the same sound generation as the N1X but a soundboard and supposedly better speakers.


This is actually a common refrain that's been applied to the original N1/N2/N3 effort nearly a decade. Because the n1 and particularly n2 have forward facing speakers (or lid positions), many have stated that the n2 sounds better for playing at the pianist position, whereas the n3 sounds (much) better in a larger room or when heard by the audience. Kind of the same effect as playing an upright versus grand (the bench is the "worst seat in the house").


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Gombessa] #2849891
05/19/19 08:20 AM
05/19/19 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Gombessa

This is actually a common refrain that's been applied to the original N1/N2/N3 effort nearly a decade. Because the n1 and particularly n2 have forward facing speakers (or lid positions), many have stated that the n2 sounds better for playing at the pianist position, whereas the n3 sounds (much) better in a larger room or when heard by the audience. Kind of the same effect as playing an upright versus grand (the bench is the "worst seat in the house").


This explains it well. The N3X really sounded less direct/clear as if the sound is directed somewhere else, which it probably is considering the open lid and the position of the spreakers.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Pete14] #2849895
05/19/19 08:25 AM
05/19/19 08:25 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,870
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Pete14
I’m also curious about how Pianoteq sounds through the N1X’s speakers and how it compares to the on-board (CFX) sound.

I will be certainly trying this at some point when I get my N1X. But David B already can try this for us, if he hasn't already done that, since he has Pianoteq too.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2849898
05/19/19 08:32 AM
05/19/19 08:32 AM
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I am planning to upgrade to the N1X, but little bit concerned if it can be installed at my place, e.g. I have some tight corners to get into my piano room.

Is it possible to transport the main unit upright in order to get around a tight corner? the manual advises to transport the instrument horizontally.

also, is it necessary to leave the instrument 15 cm away from the wall?

Last edited by Peter 512; 05/19/19 08:34 AM.

Yamaha CLP 170
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Peter 512] #2849901
05/19/19 08:35 AM
05/19/19 08:35 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,327
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
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Originally Posted by Peter 512
I am planning to upgrade to the N1X, but little bit concerned if it can be installed at my place, e.g. I have some tight corners to get into my piano room.

Is it possible to transport the main unit upright in order to get around a tight corner? the manual advises to transport the instrument horizontally.

Yes, you can! I think David B made pictures of his own N1X packages stored vertically in the store where he bought it. Technically speaking it’s a grand piano action which is secured firmly and won’t get affected by whatever orientation it’s put.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2849961
05/19/19 10:57 AM
05/19/19 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by nax
Still I liked the N1X better in both cases (and also better than the sound of the N3X).


Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
This was just an impression though since it was obtained through trying the N3X for maybe only about 3 minutes total just to see if there was any reason at all for me to consider the N3X (my use-case being 95% headphone use), and there was not.

Did you all notice much difference in the feel of the keytops between the N1X and N3X?


Yamaha N1X, P-515. Garritan CFX. Genelec 8331 monitors.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: JJHLH] #2849963
05/19/19 11:05 AM
05/19/19 11:05 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by JJHLH
Originally Posted by nax
Still I liked the N1X better in both cases (and also better than the sound of the N3X).


Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
This was just an impression though since it was obtained through trying the N3X for maybe only about 3 minutes total just to see if there was any reason at all for me to consider the N3X (my use-case being 95% headphone use), and there was not.

Did you all notice much difference in the feel of the keytops between the N1X and N3X?

I really wanted to. I thought I wanted the Ivorite keytops. But when I played them both, I really didn't feel much of a practical difference. It was possible that the Ivorite on the N3X was less slick than the acrylic resin on the N1X, but if so, it was still pretty close.

Again, I don't want to read too much into a 3-min test of the N3X. When I wasn't wow'ed by the sound w/o headphones on the N3X, I was pretty much done.

BTW, the store hadn't upgraded the N3X's TRS system and it could barely be felt in the keys. Really shocked that Yamaha didn't catch this issue in their QA/QC. I told the salesperson they should have their Yamaha technician upgrade their floor model with the board with the TRS fixed.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: JJHLH] #2849966
05/19/19 11:11 AM
05/19/19 11:11 AM
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I did not pay enough attention to the keytops to notice a difference between N1X and N3X. But compared to the NV10 I noticed a difference and I liked the yamaha better as the NV10 somehow felt more slippery to me. But that is probably just personal preference. A friend who tested it in the same store preferred the NV10 action+keytops.

Last edited by nax; 05/19/19 11:19 AM.
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: nax] #2849967
05/19/19 11:15 AM
05/19/19 11:15 AM
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David B Offline OP
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Originally Posted by nax
I ordered a N1X after comparing the N1X and NV10 at a local store. I liked both action and the sound better on the N1X.



thumb


Quote
Did anyone pay attention to the smell right after the delivery?
The N1X will be placed close to my bed, but if it smells a lot it might be better to set it up in another room first.


Currently, if I place my nose close to mine it smells like Meguiars Wax, which I think has a lovely smell. The N1X did have some type of industrial smell when I first received it, but it didn't bother me. I don't remember how long the smell lasted.

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
Mac mini 2018/Focusrite Scarlett 2i4/KRK Rokit 6 G3 Studio Monitors
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2849969
05/19/19 11:19 AM
05/19/19 11:19 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,870
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by David B
Currently, if I place my nose close to mine it smells like Meguiars Wax, which I think has a lovely smell. The N1X did have some type of industrial smell when I first received it, but it didn't bother me. I don't remember how long the smell lasted.

God Bless,
David

All of your talk about Meguiars Wax is making me want to order some and try it when my piano arrives this week. But I've never as much waxed a car and don't know how to do it. Is there a website or something about what to do with the wax once you have it?

BTW, I could care less how shiny the piano is. I'm sure I will make it un-shiny in short order. LOL. I just hate how much dust it seems to suck up. They look like real dust magnets. If waxing is too complicated, I might also consider some antistatic spray too.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On [Re: David B] #2849972
05/19/19 11:23 AM
05/19/19 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by David B

Currently, if I place my nose close to mine it smells like Meguiars Wax, which I think has a lovely smell. The N1X did have some type of industrial smell when I first received it, but it didn't bother me. I don't remember how long the smell lasted.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I would not mind at all if it was placed in the basement. wink
But the optimal position is only 1-2m from my bed, so I thought it could be an issue the first few days/weeks.

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