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Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: jamiecw] #2849382
05/17/19 07:05 PM
05/17/19 07:05 PM
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Posts: 6,935
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by jamiecw
Okay - just removed and re-installed mine and all my saved presets etc. all gone (no biggie here for me as I tinker around with PTQ) - here's what I did:

1) Applications/Pianoteq 6/Uninstall (followed the step by step wizard and once finished I emptied out the trash, logically smile

2) In Terminal I used the: defaults write com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles true and then the killall Finder commands to enable all system hidden folders...(not sure why this is but in my case I had to run the above commands twice in order to see the hidden folders/files)

3) In my home folder I deleted the Modartt folder under Library/Application Support/Modartt

4) Re-installed and activated PTQ 6.5 - et voila!

Optional steps (if you want to not display system hidden files/folders):
In terminal run (again twice as it does not work the first time around for me):
defaults write com.apple.Finder AppleShowAllFiles false
killall Finder

Thanks Jamie! It was deleting the Library/Application Support/Modartt that did it! Reinstalled and it asked me to reactivate. Now everything looks normal. Don't know how it became corrupted but it's uncorrupted now smile


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849537
05/18/19 09:25 AM
05/18/19 09:25 AM
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Nordomus Offline
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I've tested Pianoteq a bit and I think I'm near the point when I'd want to get the full version. Are there any discounts avaible from time to time? Where to look?

Suprisingly I think I like Petrof and Bechstein most but it's hard to tell without being able to actually play something without "blank" notes. I'm a bit puzzled why dynamic range is set so low by default. By logic it should be around 90-100 db? Yet it is 40 db on most pianos.

Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849557
05/18/19 10:13 AM
05/18/19 10:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,137
France
Frédéric L Online content
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Frédéric L  Online Content
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The main Pianoteq discounts I remember is when a new piano is modeled, we can buy it bundled with one other piano. The second is 50% less expensive (25€ instead of 49€)


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849584
05/18/19 11:33 AM
05/18/19 11:33 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 582
Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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They have run a sale of 30% off in the summertime for the last several years. That is when I brought my license.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849585
05/18/19 11:34 AM
05/18/19 11:34 AM
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Nordomus Offline
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Well that's too bad. BTW I have a general question about Pianoteq, I'm kind of new to the topic and one thing caught my attention. Does USB midi allows for only 127 velocity levels? If so- is there a way to increase that?

Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849596
05/18/19 11:51 AM
05/18/19 11:51 AM
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Posts: 1,477
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newer player Online content
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You can send HD MIDI via USB.

I think PianoTeq is the only popular VI that uses HD MIDI.

There are very few digital pianos that transmit HD MIDI so that makes the "feature" DOA for most of us. Casio has released the most models that do HD MIDI out.

Also, there are periodic sales on PianoTeq. I posted one recently here.

Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849605
05/18/19 12:16 PM
05/18/19 12:16 PM
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Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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My Casio PX5S that is five years old does HD MIDI or is it called Hi-Res MIDI?


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849606
05/18/19 12:18 PM
05/18/19 12:18 PM
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Nordomus Offline
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Thank you, I don't see anywhere if Kawai CA 98 has this HD MIDI feature. What pianos for example have this? Honestly I'm trying to google it and I can't find single piano that has this thing mentioned.

Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: newer player] #2849608
05/18/19 12:21 PM
05/18/19 12:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 177
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Tom Fort Offline
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Originally Posted by newer player
You can send HD MIDI via USB.

I think PianoTeq is the only popular VI that uses HD MIDI.

There are very few digital pianos that transmit HD MIDI so that makes the "feature" DOA for most of us. Casio has released the most models that do HD MIDI out.


MIDI 2.0 has been announced and is in final steps before being released. When it is included in new keyboards (late this year or next spring/summer?), it will be much more common to feature the expanded range of velocity values.

Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849613
05/18/19 12:29 PM
05/18/19 12:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,137
France
Frédéric L Online content
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Frédéric L  Online Content
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France
MIDI on USB is like plain MIDI. It is just exchanged faster. Then 127 levels.

An extension, Hi-Res MIDI Velocity transfer velocity on 14bits instead of 7, but it doesn’t imply the resolution is such high (it depends how the velocity is measured), but it enable transferring more than 127 levels. Very few digital pianos have this extension.

A note-on with 7bits velocity needs 1ms to be tranferred on a plain MIDI link. Using 14bits will need 2ms. Then a 3 notes chords could need 6ms. With USB, all the data could be sent quickly on the same packet, then the latency could be reduced to 1ms (USB1 pooling period) or less.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: newer player] #2849615
05/18/19 12:31 PM
05/18/19 12:31 PM
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Posts: 865
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Nordomus Offline
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So the sale should be near? Summertime like June or something? smile

Getting back to those velocity values I'm surprised I've discovered this just now. I would consider it a flaw at this moment because digital pianos in general have much bigger velocity variable. I'm not sure about Kawai but Roland has 16000 or something like that. And of course acoustics have infinite smile

Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849620
05/18/19 12:47 PM
05/18/19 12:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2,137
France
Frédéric L Online content
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Frédéric L  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2013
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France
We can get the MIDI impkementation of the RD800

https://static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/RD-800_MIDI_Imple_e02_W.pdf

On the last page, the CC88 (high resolution velocity) is sent and recognised.

To be sure it has 16000 levels, we would have to record a set of notes roughly at the same velocity. If the levels 63.0, 63.3, 63.6... are sent but no levels between, this would mean we don’t have 16000.

The levels is (modulo an hardness curve), 1 divided by (measured time between two sensors). Then we could have an excellent resolution at low velocity, but a worse resolution at high velocity.

The Piano Phoenix (Adele H), an high grade foldable piano is claimed to permit 1300 levels, number determined by professional needs.

Last edited by Frédéric L; 05/18/19 12:48 PM.

Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Nordomus] #2849623
05/18/19 12:51 PM
05/18/19 12:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,935
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

6000 Post Club Member

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Posts: 6,935
Originally Posted by Nordomus
Getting back to those velocity values I'm surprised I've discovered this just now. I would consider it a flaw at this moment because digital pianos in general have much bigger velocity variable. I'm not sure about Kawai but Roland has 16000 or something like that. And of course acoustics have infinite smile

You are talking about velocities which are initial key attack velocities. I don't believe this is an issue to worry about.

See @7:03:





across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849629
05/18/19 01:08 PM
05/18/19 01:08 PM
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Posts: 865
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Nordomus Offline
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Yes I've seen this video long time ago, I don't agree with it though, at least not with this part. When I do this "experiment" I can hear much more, even on digital. Maybe HE can hear only 10 or so levels, I can hear plenty more. And I'm talking about conscious hearing. I'm not gonna go into details, it's not topic for that smile

Last edited by Nordomus; 05/18/19 01:17 PM.
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Nordomus] #2849640
05/18/19 01:29 PM
05/18/19 01:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,935
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Posts: 6,935
Originally Posted by Nordomus
Yes I've seen this video long time ago, I don't agree with it though, at least not with this part. When I do this "experiment" I can hear much more, even on digital. Maybe HE can hear only 10 or so levels, I can hear plenty more. And I'm talking about conscious hearing. I'm not gonna go into details, it's not topic for that smile

He is not talking about hearing different levels. We all can distinguish way more levels then 10 when they are side-by-side comparisons. He is talking about using your fine motor controls to create levels. Do you have the fine motor control to consciously create more than 10 levels of dynamics? If so, your fine motor controls (in your fingers) are more precise than most concert pianists.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849644
05/18/19 01:37 PM
05/18/19 01:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 865
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Nordomus Offline
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Almost everyone can do that while doing cresc or dim during piece. It doesn't matter if you can do it on one note. In note progression we all do it. Also the problem is hearing this, not playing, because our brain likes those little differences, even if we have trouble perceiving them.

Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Nordomus] #2849655
05/18/19 02:03 PM
05/18/19 02:03 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,935
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Nordomus
Almost everyone can do that while doing cresc or dim during piece. It doesn't matter if you can do it on one note. In note progression we all do it.

Are you game for a little test of your fine motor control?

A two octave scale has 15 notes. Run a midi monitor on your PC and a USB cable from your keyboard. Now with one hand, play a two octave C major scale cresc. all the way up and dim. all the way down. Now check your MIDI monitor output. Did you get 15 steadily progressing velocities on the MIDI monitor?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Beakybird] #2849657
05/18/19 02:08 PM
05/18/19 02:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,063
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Online content
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Richmond, BC, Canada
"High-resolution MIDI velocity" doesn't have an appreciably larger _range_ than "low-res MIDI". As its name suggests, it has higher _resolution_ -- more steps between "f" and "ff".

I haven't seen anyone claim that he can play piano with enough consistency (or hear with enough finesse) that he can tell the difference between "hi-res" and "normal" MIDI, for MIDI velocity.

. . . I'm willing to be proven wrong, by a blind test.

The problem of limited _dynamic range_ -- the difference in dB between "pppp" and "ffff",-- and of how that range should map into the range of actual _key velocity_, are still important. Pianoteq (and, I think, some other VST's) lets you control that, better than most "all-in-one" DP's.

But if I were choosing a DP (or MIDI controller, like the VPC-1), I wouldn't use "high-resolution MIDI ?" as an important criterion.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2849662
05/18/19 02:21 PM
05/18/19 02:21 PM
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Nordomus Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Nordomus
Almost everyone can do that while doing cresc or dim during piece. It doesn't matter if you can do it on one note. In note progression we all do it.

Are you game for a little test of your fine motor control?

A two octave scale has 15 notes. Run a midi monitor on your PC and a USB cable from your keyboard. Now with one hand, play a two octave C major scale cresc. all the way up and dim. all the way down. Now check your MIDI monitor output. Did you get 15 steadily progressing velocities on the MIDI monitor?


I didn't say I can do that perfectly steady. I said that you have more than 10 different levels in such progression. Where did I claim I can do something like: 1-5-10-15 etc velocity progression? I might try that out of curiosity though to test myself smile Again it's about progression itself. I think Charles explained it well enough before me. I;ll to do that as well.

Most people can't control keys that well- true. But then again most musicians can hear those slight differences when they play and part of piano skill developement is improving control over sound and this is nothing different than controlling key velocity(as is said in video). And even if you can't play accurately certain velocity(which is obvious) like 25 for example then if you play 27 or 30 you will probably hear the difference, and that is my point. Brain doesn't want perfect sound and perfect dynamics and if in theory Pianoteq allows for very high velocity resolution(that's the best thing in modelling IMO) then it would be cool being able to use that. I don't know if I'm able to explain what I mean better smile

Last edited by Nordomus; 05/18/19 02:22 PM.
Re: Pianoteq 6.5 [Re: Nordomus] #2849668
05/18/19 02:44 PM
05/18/19 02:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,935
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Posts: 6,935
Originally Posted by Nordomus
I didn't say I can do that perfectly steady. I said that you have more than 10 different levels in such progression. Where did I claim I can do something like: 1-5-10-15 etc velocity progression? I might try that out of curiosity though to test myself smile Again it's about progression itself. I think Charles explained it well enough before me. I;ll to do that as well.

Forget that I used the word "steadily", did you even get 15 progressive levels? I tried this myself by the way. I did not get 15 progressive levels, steadily or not.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
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