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Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Rash] #2849206 05/17/19 09:58 AM
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j&j Online Content
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Originally Posted by Rash
Originally Posted by j&j
Unfortunately it takes a lot more person hours and higher end materials to do it right. Also, it takes more time to do proper factory final prep before shipping to do it right. There is a market for new crappy pianos and some manufacturers will meet that demand.


There is no problem selling crappy pianos for low price to meet the demand in that market. However, these manufacturers and dealers try to play the German/Japanese name game to cheat and sell their products at higher prices and position themselves in the upper market!

I needed to add “unscrupulous manufacturers” to the statement. Sadly, in every market there are liars, cheats, and thieves selling crap to the unwitting. If all potential piano buyers would read and research before walking into a piano store, they could probably spot and hear that it’s junk. I do think overall new piano buyers are much better informed than they were 30 years ago, with no Internet. But we still hear piano shopping horror stories. 😪


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Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Lady Bird] #2849221 05/17/19 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Yes one does not often hear Chinese makers using Japanese
names. It is usually German ?

True! Usually the names are German with MAN suffex like Hoffman, Helman, etc. and those who bought old names will have Since 18XX or 19XX like Ritmuller from Pearl River in China. This one is being creative!

Re: Takayama Piano [Re: j&j] #2849223 05/17/19 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Originally Posted by Rash
Originally Posted by j&j
Unfortunately it takes a lot more person hours and higher end materials to do it right. Also, it takes more time to do proper factory final prep before shipping to do it right. There is a market for new crappy pianos and some manufacturers will meet that demand.


There is no problem selling crappy pianos for low price to meet the demand in that market. However, these manufacturers and dealers try to play the German/Japanese name game to cheat and sell their products at higher prices and position themselves in the upper market!

I needed to add “unscrupulous manufacturers” to the statement. Sadly, in every market there are liars, cheats, and thieves selling crap to the unwitting. If all potential piano buyers would read and research before walking into a piano store, they could probably spot and hear that it’s junk. I do think overall new piano buyers are much better informed than they were 30 years ago, with no Internet. But we still hear piano shopping horror stories. 😪



Totally agree! Without the Internet, such dealers would have escaped with their stories easily. I am sure many were victims before that. Today, the would be successful only if the buyer doesn't do the home work.

Also these pianos come with unbelievable life-time and 15-20 years warranty. I wonder who would trust such a dealer of manufacturer to respect this long warranty while cheating to get the deal done!!

Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Rash] #2849254 05/17/19 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Rash
Totally agree! Without the Internet, such dealers would have escaped with their stories easily. I am sure many were victims before that. Today, the would be successful only if the buyer doesn't do the home work.

Also these pianos come with unbelievable life-time and 15-20 years warranty. I wonder who would trust such a dealer of manufacturer to respect this long warranty while cheating to get the deal done!!

Well, this is just my opinion, but we can't blame victims for being victims. And, we can't judge others too harshly who may not have been as research savvy when shopping for a piano, regardless of brand or unscrupulous marketing or tactics. In fact, in this day and age, consumers should expect a certain amount of deception in marketing practices of most companies.

There is a used piano dealer in the Atlanta area who has been in business in the area a long time and has thousands of used pianos for sale; he floods Craigslist with his piano ads. Some of the ads are worded to sound like he's a private seller. He also has lots of piano ads on eBay. He was selling a Chinese made brand a few years ago called "Steinlager". Yep, the first part of the name "Stein" what does that remind you of? Anyway, I have actually talked to him a few times about some of his pianos. We discussed the Steinlager brand. He said he owned the factory in China where they build the Steinlager.

The first thought that came to my mind is, Really? A used piano dealer from Atlanta (who also has roots in France because he's French) owns the factory in China where they build his Steinlager brand. I actually found that statement rather hard to believe. Knowing a little about the Chinese economy and their government, I doubted very seriously that he "owned" the factory in China that builds the Steinlager. He may well have "contracted" with the real owners of the factory in China, but I doubt very seriously he actually "owned" the factory. But it was a rather witty and clever slant of words on his part, I suppose.

However, I could be wrong and perhaps misjudging him. Since I would like to maintain my own integrity and character and wouldn't want to unfairly misjudge someone, my words can be taken with a grain of salt.

As far as the Takayama brand piano, like the Steinlager, it reminds me of two things right off the bat... "Taka" reminds me of the little-known Tokai brand of pianos once made in Hamamatsu Japan (no longer in business), and "yama" reminds me of Yamaha, a huge name in the piano industry. So, I suppose if you are going to build and market a new and different piano brand, using part of a name subtally of a more famous piano brand seems like a good strategy on their part. And, secondly, as has been mentioned already, it could be that they could make enough profit off of lesser-informed buyers looking for a nice piano at a lower price; hence, by the time they reach the end of their start-up and follow-through cycle and the piano sales they do make, they are ready to drop that name and move on to another cycle of riding the coattail of successful piano brands with another obscure and little known cross-bread brand-name with parts of common and well-know sounding piano brand names...

But you never know... the Takayama brand piano might be the best thing since Steinway & Sons (or not). smile

Just my .02.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Rash] #2849290 05/17/19 12:51 PM
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The world is full of products with trade names or trademarks that suggest a geographical origin other than the true origin. Sometimes it's undoubtedly to be deceptive, but I'm sure the advertising executives out there will say that other times it's simply to evoke a sales-friendly image or feeling about the product. Don't you think your perfume will sell better with a French name, even if it's made in New Jersey?

Which perfume are you going to pick off the shelf, "Eau de la Seine" or "Hudson River Water"?

Larry.

Re: Takayama Piano [Re: DPCK] #2849293 05/17/19 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by DPCK
Originally Posted by Lady Bird
Yes one does not often hear Chinese makers using Japanese
names. It is usually German ?

True! Usually the names are German with MAN suffex like Hoffman, Helman, etc. and those who bought old names will have Since 18XX or 19XX like Ritmuller from Pearl River in China. This one is being creative!

Just to clarify the W Hoffman piano by CBechstein is made by the
Bechstein factory in the Czech Republic.

Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Rash] #2849297 05/17/19 01:11 PM
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Lady Bird Offline
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I agree there are people new at buying pianos,and because
pianos with German sounding names are an easy sell ,especially
if the dealer is cunning.I always wonder whether some of these "dealers " end up with fraud charges.

Re: Takayama Piano [Re: iLaw] #2849309 05/17/19 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by iLaw
The world is full of products with trade names or trademarks that suggest a geographical origin other than the true origin. Sometimes it's undoubtedly to be deceptive, but I'm sure the advertising executives out there will say that other times it's simply to evoke a sales-friendly image or feeling about the product. Don't you think your perfume will sell better with a French name, even if it's made in New Jersey?

Which perfume are you going to pick off the shelf, "Eau de la Seine" or "Hudson River Water"?

Larry.



If Eau de la Seine smells like Hudson River water it would quickly teach the buyer to try a sample mist first before buying. The old stencil brand practice of selling a PSO at a higher price to a newbie, the newbie doesn’t yet have the ear to determine if it’s a quality piano or not. Of course there maybe folks who like the smell of Hudson River Water.


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Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Rash] #2849349 05/17/19 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
If Eau de la Seine smells like Hudson River water it would quickly teach the buyer to try a sample mist first before buying. The old stencil brand practice of selling a PSO at a higher price to a newbie, the newbie doesn’t yet have the ear to determine if it’s a quality piano or not. Of course there maybe folks who like the smell of Hudson River Water.

Okay, this is getting OT here, but the OT was already in motion... smile

When I was a technical college instructor I had a student who had just retired out of the military. He was originally from New Jersey but decided to stay in Georgia after he retired because this is where he was last stationed in the military and he liked living in Georgia.

He said he had recently visited some of his relatives in New Jersey and one of his brothers began cracking jokes about him living in Georgia. He (the student) said he had enough of his brother's Georgia jokes and told his brother that, compared to Georgia, where they lived in New Jersey was basically a land-fill with garbage and trash all over the streets and it also smelled like a land-fill.

So, perhaps if the new Eau de la Seine perfume did indeed smell like water from the Hudson river, it may not be such a good seller after all, regardless of the fancy name, though some people may like it. smile

*No offense to anyone from New Jersey. I've rarely been out of the state of Georgia myself, and never visited New Jersey and was merely repeating what I heard someone else say...*

Now back to Takayama pianos... smile

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Rash] #2849353 05/17/19 04:21 PM
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Lady Bird Offline
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Perhaps one day they will spray pianos with the smell of freshly
cut cedar.Something like "Black Forest "perfume ?

Last edited by Lady Bird; 05/17/19 04:23 PM. Reason: Missing word
Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Rickster] #2849399 05/17/19 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Rickster
As far as the Takayama brand piano, like the Steinlager, it reminds me of two things right off the bat... "Taka" reminds me of the little-known Tokai brand of pianos once made in Hamamatsu Japan (no longer in business), and "yama" reminds me of Yamaha, a huge name in the piano industry.


Takayama is actually a city in the Gifu Prefecture, meaning "High Mountains." It's a popular tourist destination for the architecture of the region, particularly the architecture of farmhouses that are built to withstand the heavy snow in winter.

Use of foreign-sounding names were not uncommon in other places. In Japan, there were once poor-quality cheap PSOs with European sounding names. There were lots of brand names with "Stein" in the name.

Eventually, only Yamaha and Kawai survived as major players, because they were basically the only ones making quality pianos.

I predict that the majority of manufacturers in China, particularly those fly-by-night slapping on fake brand names will be out of business in 10 years or less. Those Chinese pianos with illegitimate, stolen brand names (think Mason&Hamlin, Stuart&Sons...) will be history soon. They are best forgotten quickly.

Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Ken Iisaka] #2849484 05/18/19 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Iisaka
Originally Posted by Rickster
As far as the Takayama brand piano, like the Steinlager, it reminds me of two things right off the bat... "Taka" reminds me of the little-known Tokai brand of pianos once made in Hamamatsu Japan (no longer in business), and "yama" reminds me of Yamaha, a huge name in the piano industry.


Takayama is actually a city in the Gifu Prefecture, meaning "High Mountains." It's a popular tourist destination for the architecture of the region, particularly the architecture of farmhouses that are built to withstand the heavy snow in winter.

Use of foreign-sounding names were not uncommon in other places. In Japan, there were once poor-quality cheap PSOs with European sounding names. There were lots of brand names with "Stein" in the name.

Eventually, only Yamaha and Kawai survived as major players, because they were basically the only ones making quality pianos.

I predict that the majority of manufacturers in China, particularly those fly-by-night slapping on fake brand names will be out of business in 10 years or less. Those Chinese pianos with illegitimate, stolen brand names (think Mason&Hamlin, Stuart&Sons...) will be history soon. They are best forgotten quickly.


Yes Takayama is a name of a city. They are trying to use it to make people believe it is a center of handcrafts etc. on the their website. While in reality, Hamamatsu is the city of musical instruments in Japan

Re: Takayama Piano [Re: Rash] #2849520 05/18/19 07:39 AM
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It’s sad. Between copyright infringement, trademark issues, and stealing intellectual property, I guess using the name of a Japanese city to sell crappy pianos made somewhere in China to people who don’t know better has been going on for quite awhile. Piano buyer beware!!! The good news to all of this is in most countries without search engine censorship, our research tool is our handy smartphones. New buyers don’t have to remain clueless. With this thread going that names Takayama pianos, right after the user types it into Google, they’ll get the phony website and then it will bring up this PianoWorld thread. So to our PianoWorld team and experts, you are fighting the good fight against the evil doers hawking crap to the uninformed! Yeah PianoWorld!


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