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Bach's 18 short preludes #2848688
05/16/19 08:28 AM
05/16/19 08:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2018
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oneilt130 Online content OP
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Hi all,

Once again I am hitting up the ABF for some advice. Last time I asked for suggestions based on my experience level for the next pieces I should try one of the suggestion was to continue with the Clementi Sonatinas in order as the progress in difficulty. Also Bach's short preludes, in particular No 2., were recommended. I am working my way through Clementi's Op 36 No 2 and have gotten Bach's Short Prelude No 2 just about complete. (That trill at the end is going to take time to get up to speed.) So now I am looking for my next short piece. I have the Alfred Masterwork Edition of J.S. Bach 18 Short Preludes for the keyboard and really like the explanations and annotations it provides. Is there an order of difficulty or preference for learning these preludes? FYI I am currently not taking lessons and for now my schedule doesn't let me allocate a set amount of time daily to practice so I am content to stay at this level for the summer.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.


Yamaha NU1X
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Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2848740
05/16/19 10:43 AM
05/16/19 10:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
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Niagara Falls NY
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Lisa

Currently working at RCM grade 5
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

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Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2849383
05/17/19 07:06 PM
05/17/19 07:06 PM
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impendia Offline
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I love Prelude No. 8, the one in F major. I studied that (on my teacher's recommendation) shortly after I finished No. 2.

Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2849500
05/18/19 07:00 AM
05/18/19 07:00 AM
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oneilt130 Online content OP
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Thanks for the book recommendation, that looks like a good resource to use when browsing for new music. Thanks also for the next little prelude suggestion, No. 8 is up next! smile


Yamaha NU1X
Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2849516
05/18/19 08:21 AM
05/18/19 08:21 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,497
Florida
cmb13 Online content
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cmb13  Online Content
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These are the Little Preludes? I recently bought them, but haven’t yet started them in earnest. They’re tougher than I expected. But then, they’re Bach!


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Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2849532
05/18/19 09:12 AM
05/18/19 09:12 AM
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Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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The F major is good, but it's difficult. I wouldn't' start with that one. Don't let the name fool you, they may be "little" but they're tricky! There's a C major one that is probably more accessible to start (the No. 13 one).


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Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2849576
05/18/19 11:11 AM
05/18/19 11:11 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,497
Florida
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Florida
My book, Henle, seems to have a strange order and I can’t figure out what’s what. Can you help me sort it out? Is this a bizarre order? There is no table of contents - maybe I should print the page linked.

Henle Kleine Praludien und Fughetten

Is there a recommended order for these? They are not in numerical order by BWV. I don’t understand why.

Thanks


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Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: cmb13] #2849610
05/18/19 12:24 PM
05/18/19 12:24 PM
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Posts: 243
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The Henle description says “these pieces (which gradually become more challenging)...” so I would guess they are in somebody’s recommended order. I have only worked on the first one, BWV 924. Maybe it is time for more ...


”Mister Upright,” Yamaha YUS5.
Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: cmb13] #2849616
05/18/19 12:31 PM
05/18/19 12:31 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,525
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Originally Posted by cmb13
My book, Henle, seems to have a strange order and I can’t figure out what’s what. Can you help me sort it out? Is this a bizarre order? There is no table of contents - maybe I should print the page linked.

Henle Kleine Praludien und Fughetten

Is there a recommended order for these? They are not in numerical order by BWV. I don’t understand why.

Thanks


The Preface to your Henle edition states: "... were probably arranged by Bach himself in systematic order according to key and difficulty: C major, c minor, d minor, D major, E major, e minor, (II, 1-6)." i.e., the second set in the Henle. I don't know if this applies to the other two sets in Henle's edition, but it might be the case which would explain the somewhat random order you mention.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2849639
05/18/19 01:28 PM
05/18/19 01:28 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,497
Florida
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Okay so now I feel a little stupid for not noticing that. I did buy several books at once and didn’t read all the prefaces. But the numbering is odd and the pieces are not well labeled, although they do have the BWV number.

Thanks


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: cmb13] #2849658
05/18/19 02:09 PM
05/18/19 02:09 PM
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Sidokar Offline
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Okay so now I feel a little stupid for not noticing that. I did buy several books at once and didn’t read all the prefaces. But the numbering is odd and the pieces are not well labeled, although they do have the BWV number.

Thanks


The little preludes and fugues are not a set made by Bach. It is a compilation of various sources, some of them being of doubtfull authenticity. Henle has published and grouped them by source. The first group comes from the Wilhelm Friedmann KlavierBuchlein; this set of autograph documents actually contained many compositions of which the first full version of the Inventions and Sinfonias and some futur WTC preludes. What is published here is what remains after the rest has been extracted. The last one BWV 931 is not formerly authenticated. These are part of what is sometimes called the group of 12.

The second group and the comment in Henle only applies to this second group not to the rest is known as the group of six, from various sources. Ordered by key.

The third group is the remaining of the group of 12 and comes from the P804 source. The BWV 939-BWV942 are of doubtfull authenticity.

The last group is made of various compositions and various manuscripts.

Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2849701
05/18/19 04:58 PM
05/18/19 04:58 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,497
Florida
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Thanks for the detailed info, Sidokar, that’s really helpful. I hope it didn’t say all that in the preface also!


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Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2849994
05/19/19 12:54 PM
05/19/19 12:54 PM
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I'm also interested in these preludes, however I just began to learn them, so I cannot answer to the question regarding the difficulty of them comparing to each other.
I have just finished BWV 999, but as far as I know it doesn't belong to the "little preludes" collection. It's not difficult to play, it has an easy pattern, there is no challanging fingering in it, but one can learn a lot about chords while learning (the most time-consuming part is the memorization - it can be tough).
My second piece is BWV 940, it is literally a little prelude (one page), the fingering is more demanding, but also have a cute melody. Personally I like this one better, because it's more challenging and melodic.

Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: cmb13] #2850016
05/19/19 02:00 PM
05/19/19 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Thanks for the detailed info, Sidokar, that’s really helpful. I hope it didn’t say all that in the preface also!


No it did not. The preface is not very clear to be honest for once. Also many other editions do publish the group of 12 ordered by key as if it was a set done by Bach, thats why the Henle grouping does not match with the numbering referred to by other people

Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: cmb13] #2850019
05/19/19 02:17 PM
05/19/19 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Thanks for the detailed info, Sidokar, that’s really helpful. I hope it didn’t say all that in the preface also!


No it did not, at least not completely. The preface is not very clear to be honest for once. Also many other editions do publish the group of 12 ordered by key as if it was a set done by Bach, thats why the Henle grouping does not match with the numbering referred to by other people.

Re: Bach's 18 short preludes [Re: oneilt130] #2850220
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I've learned simplified version of C Major one - BWV 939 (with 16 notes in mordents) and it was very rewarding to play. Felt like foretaste of Bach's greater pieces. Can't recommend that one enough.
I'm now polishing F Major one - BWV 927 and must admit this was great challange for me. I don't think I will be able to play it at expected tempo at this point of my learning journey. The piece is very fun to play regardless (I especially enjoy fragment when both hands start to play arpeggios - very empowering).
Before F Major my teacher considered c minor (BWV 999), but hesitated as it requires quite some endurance and stamina from a beginner (and my hands are not in best condition for such pieces), so we went for F one instead.
Maybe I will tackle c minor now...


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