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Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849065
05/17/19 12:20 AM
05/17/19 12:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 184
West Australia
Lostinidlewonder Offline OP
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Originally Posted by outo
If we are to discuss LiW online personality here, I must add that I have had my disagreements with him in the past. He's a stubborn one surely, but does not seem to be a kind that holds a grudge afterwards.

Sometimes this place (the forums I visit) shows a preference for similar minded people and also the discussion culture is more of the kind common in US. Since I come from a different background (as does LiW) I do not always feel like I belong. I just try to behave and not ruffle feathers too much... With more or less success wink


I don't hold grudges people can have a bad day and good days that is to be expected you can, Im sure all those who are complaining about my thread if they met me in person and talked piano with me would sing a different tune. This topic is very interesting to me and I want to share ideas that I have learned from over 2 decades of teaching, more people appreciate it than not. I freely give my information and really will not stop giving it away just because some minorities don't like the way I write. Maybe they can pay me and I will write it in a form that they approve of smile

I could post all the appreciation I've ever got and the people I have networked with who got appreciated my writing, there is some 15 years of that I could share but they pm me on purpose because they don't want to be in the public view and why should I boast with that? If people take their time to message me privately and then converse with me in private over several years about my posts then to me this is a good sign that what I am doing is useful for them and probably many others who are merely readers of forums. Even on this thread you will see people post appreciation, so it is not like these loud minorities who post continutally respresent the majority, post count certainly doesn't mean anything, content of writing does, we just have to test what people say and deal with their words to see the worth. Those who cry about my thread do they really assist people in learning more about music?

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/17/19 12:28 AM.

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Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849145
05/17/19 07:54 AM
05/17/19 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder

What are you doing doing on my thread if you disagree with it so?


It is not your thread. The whole forum has an owner and it isn't you.


Learner
Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: malkin] #2849164
05/17/19 09:19 AM
05/17/19 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder

What are you doing doing on my thread if you disagree with it so?


It is not your thread. The whole forum has an owner and it isn't you.

Semantics, it is my thread in the sense that if I wasn't born it would have never existed. The question still remains why anyone would be a part of my thread if it annoys them so and to a point where they have to start making up lies about how I interact here?

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/17/19 09:27 AM.

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Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849170
05/17/19 09:38 AM
05/17/19 09:38 AM
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Would you like it better if no one responded?


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Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849176
05/17/19 09:43 AM
05/17/19 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder
Originally Posted by TimR


My biggest complaint about his posts on this thread is neither the length of his posts nor the inchoate nature of them, but the contempt he shows for the knowledge and skills of the regular teachers here.

You have no evidence that I have contempt for the knowledge and skills of other teachers here, that is an absolutely false and rather rude accusation.


I will answer your objection in the hope you might read it.

There are two ways you show disrespect for your audience.

One is to be sloppy with your presentation. Your essays would not get a passing grade in even a high school writing class. When you are trying to impart knowledge, make the effort to write clearly and logically - anything less shows disrespect for the listeners/readers. If you were lecturing in a class on any subject, you could not get away with this free form spew of whatever pops into your mind - you would start with a thesis statement and an outline, and proceed from major points to lesser. Now, in a conversation on a forum nobody insists on spelling, grammar, even clear thought, because most of us are here for the interaction or for the solution of a discrete problem. But you're not interested in a conversation, you are interested only in educating us. But you don't make the effort to do a good job at it. Even your supporters admit they haven't been able to read all the way through your posts.

The second mode of disrespect is to come to a group of experienced successful teachers and assume they don't know even the simplest basics like "be nice to students." There are a very few regulars who hang out here who are not piano teachers, but the vast majority of members have more experience than you. Your experience on pianostreet might not prepare you for a forum as homogenous as this one, but it would not take much reading here to understand the make up of the members.

Last edited by TimR; 05/17/19 09:46 AM.

gotta go practice
Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849193
05/17/19 10:34 AM
05/17/19 10:34 AM
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I'm still in part sorting out / understanding the kerfuffle part of this thread. I just read the latest article that starts:
Originally Posted by LostinIdleWonder
What tools can we build up that are helpful for music development? Other than the relationship with the student which I have written about in detail several time.......

The style and content, as with many of the others, make me ask: Are you intending all this for novice teachers entering the profession?

Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: TimR] #2849196
05/17/19 10:41 AM
05/17/19 10:41 AM
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Lostinidlewonder Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TimR

There are two ways you show disrespect for your audience.

One is to be sloppy with your presentation. Your essays would not get a passing grade in even a high school writing class.

On pianoworld you cannot edit your posts however after a certain time so it will be left with errors. I am posting freely and writing in a relaxed style, I am not uploading to https://arxiv.org/ or writing a detailed document in perfect form. You still have not given any examples merely spewing forth more of your opinion.


Originally Posted by TimR

When you are trying to impart knowledge, make the effort to write clearly and logically - anything less shows disrespect for the listeners/readers.

I'm sorry it is impossible to write in a style that everyone will approve of. You already don't like long posts so the only way to make it relevant to you is to cut 90% of my writing down which I won't do. So I will miss the attention of people like yourself but that doesn't bother me at all. Those who have time to read will read. Those who don't understand will ask me questions all of which I will respond to and have thoughout this thread. Peoples interactions with me in these instances have not been met with confusion at all, there is evidence in the first few pages of this thread to prove that if you don't want to read through everything.

Originally Posted by TimR

If you were lecturing in a class on any subject, you could not get away with this free form spew of whatever pops into your mind - you would start with a thesis statement and an outline, and proceed from major points to lesser.

All my posts are relevant to the opening post which is quite an open issue as to how to build up a student without breaking them down. I am not talking about random issues that are popping into my mind, it is all about piano education and learning. Again you failed to quote me anywhere.

Originally Posted by TimR

Now, in a conversation on a forum nobody insists on spelling, grammar, even clear thought, because most of us are here for the interaction or for the solution of a discrete problem. But you're not interested in a conversation, you are interested only in educating us.

I am not posting to educate people or have a conversation or anything at all. I am a piano teacher with decades of experience and want to share my wisdom that I have got from teaching hundreds of students for some 40-50 hours every week 6 days a week. I am offering my insights for free and don't care what anyone does with is, whether they want to be educated, or in your case feel threatened and angry loloool, whatever they want to do with it is their responsbility. Why would I want to post with the sole purpose to educate people?? I educate people in the real world why would I need an outlet here to do it more? The manner of this thread encourages people to respond if they want or just say nothing and just read what I want to share. I have posted plenty of threads which actually ask people question and suggestions, just because this is not one of those threads doens't mean that this is all the types of threads that I post. If people are educated I am pleased, I have people who private message me saying how interesting my posts are and how they have found value in it, so I will continue posting because I know from the large mass of people reading many will be able to take something from it. I wonder how much they take from you constantly complaining on my thread? Do you think they are learning much about music? lol.


Originally Posted by TimR

But you don't make the effort to do a good job at it. Even your supporters admit they haven't been able to read all the way through your posts.

Lol now you think you know every single supporter and know exactly what they do? Goodness me you must have spent a lot of time chasing people up and asking them all, and are you a hacker?? You can see who has messaged me and followed them up on this all??? Goodness!!! I don't need supporters anyway, I don't post to gain attention or to gain followers or to whatever whatever, I am posting just because I want to share information on a pianoforum. I don't get paid for it so what motivation do I have? Come on please, you think you know exactly how I function?? I am posting because piano is a great interest to me, it is enjoyable for me to write about it and I will continue doing so. I also find it funny people like yourself have to be so negative about it all lol. You'd much prefer I delete my account and no longer post I am sure. Or would you prefer I go to the school of TimR and learn to write in TimR style? That sounds too judgemental for my tastes though.

Originally Posted by TimR

The second mode of disrespect is to come to a group of experienced successful teachers and assume they don't know even the simplest basics like "be nice to students." There are a very few regulars who hang out here who are not piano teachers, but the vast majority of members have more experience than you. Your experience on pianostreet might not prepare you for a forum as homogenous as this one, but it would not take much reading here to understand the make up of the members.

You seem to have an overly large opinion of yourself that you know exactly the demographics of who reads these threads. There are all sorts of people reading threads like this, your anti knowledge attempt doesn't help them at all. I will continue to post how I like and if you don't like it thats just too bad, I will not change to satisfy you, I don't intend my writing to be appreciated by 100% of people and I acknowledge there will be a small minority who feel threatened and angry and need to post rubbish on this thread.

Still waiting for you to quote me, all the evidence you give is your opinion. Oh well.

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/17/19 10:47 AM.

"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all"
Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: keystring] #2849197
05/17/19 10:42 AM
05/17/19 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by keystring
I'm still in part sorting out / understanding the kerfuffle part of this thread. I just read the latest article that starts:
Originally Posted by LostinIdleWonder
What tools can we build up that are helpful for music development? Other than the relationship with the student which I have written about in detail several time.......

The style and content, as with many of the others, make me ask: Are you intending all this for novice teachers entering the profession?

There are all sorts of people occasioning threads like this, so of course I will write for all sorts of people, I dont intend my writing to be interesting for all experience levels simultaneously at all times. Sometimes it is handy to list out common sense ideas because from them deeper ideas can be found.

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/17/19 10:44 AM.

"The biggest risk in life is to take no risk at all"
Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849199
05/17/19 10:49 AM
05/17/19 10:49 AM
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Building up nervous students:

A good teacher cares about how comfortable their students are while playing in lessons. I have met so many students from all ability levels from the beginner to advanced who can quite scared to play for a teacher or anyone else. In our first lesson if I sense I have a nervous student I make it a number one priority to ensure that they feel that our interaction is very casual and relaxed, no judgment and pressure to perform at a high level, always offer reassurance and commend these students efforts no matter how they play and don't start correcting them. As time goes on never relate these students playing to a perfect top class model but instead relate it to how they have improved themselves this offers much more comfort and constructive comparisons to insecure students and encourages confidence in their playing as they will notice how they have improved. They already compare themselves with others and defeat themselves with that, we need to help build a path away from those type of comparisons.

I will come back to comparisons but would like to describe one way I see how nervous students can react in lessons. Some students who are extremely nervous try to do everything correct and make changes on the spot immediately so it all sounds right. You find that they apologize every time they make a inaccuracy and are super critical of themselves, they cannot relax. This clouds their thinking while playing for the teacher and stresses them out which limits the amount of correctives that the teacher can successfully work with.

Some nervous students often prefer to be given in the lesson the method as to how how to improve a passage then they would only like to use that to solve the problem on their own away from the lesson. Only once they have worked on it in private do they want to then come back to the teacher. They dread making mistakes in front of the teacher and reveal their rough process of improvement. We should encourage them to feel safe during the process of solving their challenges with the teacher and get a result in the lesson. We need to desensitize them to feel ok to make mistakes in front of others. This also is very relevant to students who are petrified with stage fright. They often have a lot of fear making a mistake in public as well as all the eyes/ears that are on them. This idea of perfection and that everything has to be perfect or you will be judged negatively needs to be dismantled, we are humans and we are full of errors. All great performers have had experience with errors on stage.

A teacher always has to be on the look out for these nervous student and ensure they are comfortable, notice every sigh, negative facial expression, body mannerism, uncomfortable shifting etc etc. It is different for everyone but a good teacher will get to know their students and know when/how to help them feel more confident.

So back to comparisons, consider when you see a young child on youtube play something at an incredibly high level (something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UzeHEW2I0EY) Some of us are impressed, entertained, astounded and very inspired to see such things but others feel extremely negative and it actually can depresses them to see a young virtuoso do so well because it diminishes their own capabilities. It is quite therapeutic to watch these kind of videos together with students who think little of themselves and who compare themselves with others especially those who mention to you the amazing examples they have seen online. From my investigation doing this with some students it helps them open up about their insecurities and have someone to safely talk to them about it. Some videos we have watched they ask me to play exactly the same so I do and they are amazed to see it in person but I encourage them that the amount of work that goes behind it all makes it look like it might happen naturally but really it isn't. Some of these videos these kids practice a huge amount and are pushed hard by their parents. So digging into the reality of it all is important.

This pushes me to a point of "showing off for students" sometimes I get asked to play something impressive from my students to which I always oblige. One student who comes from Chile, in her mid 50's and a distant cousin of Claudio Arrau, plays piano wonderfully however she has health problems which limits her potential progress. She gets depressed almost when she hears me play, sits back reserved and says things like "I could never achieve that etc etc". I have to stop playing and tell her the reality of the situation, I practice every day and my work and private life revolves around piano. She plays beautifully what she can physically play, but when she observes the acrobatics you can do on the piano that she physically would not be able to achieve she seems to think that what she does is so much lesser musically which is totally wrong of course.

When I play for my students some start to put up barriers. They see a product of almost 35 years of piano practice and because it might be so far from where they are now they get overwhelmed by the distance they still have to go or whether they could even achieve that level themselves in their lifetime. Some of them who like piano very much listen to advanced music and aspire to learn it but when they see it played before they own eyes on a piano they start to understand how much they have to still go before even considering doing it themselves. Most students however I have found benefit from seeing their teacher perform for them, it might inspire them and open their ears to what the piano is capable of, but I have always had tongue in cheek when people draw motivation from the feats of other people rather than from their own personal endeavors (it is not to say that they can't develop their own personal path after initially wanting to aspire to what someone else has achieved).

This all helps students who negatively compare themselves with others by exposing them directly to comparison situations whether watching videos or watching the teacher or one of their top students perform, this is a very important lesson since it has a large effect on their psychology and energy to do work and their self worth.

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/17/19 10:56 AM.

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Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: TimR] #2849202
05/17/19 10:53 AM
05/17/19 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by TimR

Even your supporters admit they haven't been able to read all the way through your posts.


If you are referring to me, it's only because I am too busy to follow lengthy discussions at the moment, not because I am unable to read long texts...I do read books smile

I don't read other long posts either if they are not directed to me. Also I do not consider myself anyone's "supporter" here. I only ask for tolerance of diversity and good manners.

Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849203
05/17/19 10:54 AM
05/17/19 10:54 AM
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On the common OT of this thread:
I've been part of both sites - P.World and Street - from the onset. There is a slightly different discussion culture there. You will have more posts that are long-winded, general, lecture-style. it doesn't happen that often, but does happen. In fact, one reason I have visited both sites is because you get different types of things from both. The great majority, however, is where a teacher or a student or performer is asking a "how to" or "why" question. These questions might well be answered in a manner that is more long-winded and perhaps more intellectual there, than here.

What always seems to get a response on either side is a question posed in the teacher forum by a teacher, or in the student forum by a student. I'd like to point out that in recent times a teacher showed up who was trying to figure out communication styles in order to bring across his ideas, and deliberately adopted the "ask a question" style. You will probably remember the ones where we were to help figure out which of two students sounded better, or compare which of two performances by a student was better, and why. Responses came readily to begin with, because there is a culture of "teachers help other teachers". If LiW had come in asking for help with things, the initial reaction, by teachers, would have been better. However, this other example fell flat, because that teacher was not really asking for help, but instead was trying to present his teaching ideas; the dishonesty of that pose ruffled a lot of feathers, and there was some reaction since teachers saw other aspects of teaching (the idea was too one-sided) and there seemed to be the feeling (I think) that the teachers were all learners rather than aso contributors. I will propose that in the least, LiW is not putting on any kind of pose. He intends to present the info / ideas that he wants to present, and does exactly that with no poses or posturing.

Just some worked-late /woke-late still having coffee kick in - thoughts.

Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: keystring] #2849212
05/17/19 11:18 AM
05/17/19 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by keystring
On the common OT of this thread:
If LiW had come in asking for help with things, the initial reaction, by teachers, would have been better. However, this other example fell flat, because that teacher was not really asking for help, but instead was trying to present his teaching ideas; the dishonesty of that pose ruffled a lot of feathers, and there was some reaction since teachers saw other aspects of teaching (the idea was too one-sided) and there seemed to be the feeling (I think) that the teachers were all learners rather than aso contributors. I will propose that in the least, LiW is not putting on any kind of pose. He intends to present the info / ideas that he wants to present, and does exactly that with no poses or posturing.

Personally I don't see why me sharing my insights into teaching should be taken as "dishonest" or cause feathers to be ruffled. I guess there are insecure people who feel threatened by my large posts and need to complain rather than deal with ideas I have written. When I offer ideas I do so freely and without any strings attached, I don't need people to follow me and become my disciplines I don't require responses. Even though I don't need it I do welcome peoples questions though and their own constructive input whether they agree or disagree with me. First and foremost I want to share my ideas and let people use it or abuse it however they seem fit that is up to them. If there is debate I think that is good so long it is about the topics.

We also have no idea of all the type of people who read threads, their background, their situations etc, we don't kow who we reach and who we help out there. I am sure my posts have helped people think a little bit about piano education and study and many of these people I will never heard from, that's great and fine! I am of course glad to hear from people who enjoy my posts, I love private pms and will discuss much in depth there also as you know personally keystring. My pms are often just as long as my posts online so I don't do this for attention seeking at all just for those few who might think so lol.

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/17/19 11:21 AM.

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Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849220
05/17/19 11:36 AM
05/17/19 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder
When I play for my students some start to put up barriers. They see a product of almost 35 years of piano practice


This is intriguing.

According to your profile you were born in 1981, so you are 38, and have been practicing piano for 35 years.

That would imply you started at age 3. That seems a bit earlier than is common in my country - do you currently start students that young?


gotta go practice
Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: TimR] #2849225
05/17/19 11:47 AM
05/17/19 11:47 AM
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Lostinidlewonder Offline OP
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Originally Posted by TimR
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder
When I play for my students some start to put up barriers. They see a product of almost 35 years of piano practice


This is intriguing.

According to your profile you were born in 1981, so you are 38, and have been practicing piano for 35 years.

That would imply you started at age 3. That seems a bit earlier than is common in my country - do you currently start students that young?

I was 3 and was taught first by my father who is an excellent pianist himself I didn't have lessons with another teacher until I was around 6 which I think is the average age for most young kids to be ready for lessons. I have taught as young as 4 and it really does depends on the individual, usually by 6 they are all ready. Younger ages tend to benefit more from group lessons where they can learn about rhythm and beat and singing and play simple insturments all in a fun way. I have taught some young kids around 4 for 15 minutes or so after I teach their older brothers or sisters and we can build from there the length of lessons. I also started teaching piano in my teens just incase you are wondering that also, around 13, after I performed many concerts and won competitions around my area for several years, I was approached by people wanting lessons from me, also people from my neighborhood would knock on my door asking for lessons as they heard me practicing, I took them on of course good pocket money for a kid :P. I learned a lot about teaching from experience (and also from the several teachers I worked with) and then later on furthered my studies under the esteemed Professor Roger Wodward as one of his private students, he is one of the biggest names in Australian classical music.

Last edited by Lostinidlewonder; 05/17/19 11:51 AM.

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Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: TimR] #2849235
05/17/19 12:10 PM
05/17/19 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TimR

That would imply you started at age 3. That seems a bit earlier than is common in my country - do you currently start students that young?


I can't speak for OP or OP's country, but here in the US, while perhaps rare, it is not unheard of. I started at age three, with my mother teaching me. At four I started with a dedicated piano teacher. I have taken on students as young as four - I had some that wound up reading music before they could read English! Whether or not a kid is ready at that age derives from a combination of factors including (but probably not limited to) desire to learn, suitable attention span, and parental support.


Austin Rogers, PhD
Music Teacher in Austin, TX
Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand "Kuroneko", Baldwin Upright, Yamaha P-255
Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849251
05/17/19 12:32 PM
05/17/19 12:32 PM
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Florida
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder
I thought I would share this post as something teachers of all disciplines should meditate upon when dealing with their students and something students can consider to help them measure the relationship they have with their teacher. The original post can be found here: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=65615.0


The best teachers I have come across not only in terms of music are those who have built me up first without breaking me down. This is the sign of the "good fruits" of a good teacher that they will build you up without dismantling your current abilities or make you feel a failure or that you have wasted your time in the past or that anything you learned in the past cannot help you in the future. They will meet you at your level and build you up.

A poor teacher will ignore your past and expect you to recreate yourself immediately and if you are unable you are left feeling a failure and it is all your fault. You feel guilty, stupid, useless, nothing is able to be built up because you are so distraught that what you had before is useless. The teacher will blame you for your inability to recreate yourself or keep up with their regieme, they are unbending in the way they teach if you cannot follow their method "to the t" then you simply are not worthy of improving. They ignore your personal journey, they have no sensitivity to connect with that.

A good teacher will appreciate your past and get to know you, they will be interested in how you function and what you do. They will not copy paste their ideas of mastery over the top of you. They actively work against your negative feelings about yourself, they build your morale up, they make you aware of your strenghts and use that to build you up further. They will not focus on your weaknesses and make you feel bad for having them, in the process of building you up and actually liking you for what you bring to the lesson, you will feel secure and relax into their advice and teaching.

As you relax into the relationship with your teacher you will be able to make changes and improve upon your weaknesses, not by smashing them down and forgetting about them, but by first building you up to such a point where then you are able to reevaluate your situation with more insight, more confidence, no more traps before you. You relax because they have built you up and you feel good, you have tasted the fruits of their good teaching and it has opened your mind in a kind, constructive manner with no sense of destruction or feelings of incompetance.


I haven’t read this entire thread, nor do I intend to, but I would offer an analogy to support the OP. I have taken tennis lessons intermittently over the years. Different instructors have different ideas as to what is correct. Differing opinions on grips, backhands, serving styles, strategies. When I take a lesson now, realizing I am the amalgamation of various teachers’ styles, it is counterproductive to start fresh with an entirely new style. I simply ask them to help me with what I’m having trouble with, or to tweak one or two things. I’m not interested in assuming their style; I don’t have the time or will and it would ruin my game for months, at which point I may be in a different location with a different pro.

Hope this helps support your position.


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Boston 118 PE

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Debussy Clair De Lune

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: Lostinidlewonder] #2849267
05/17/19 01:13 PM
05/17/19 01:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,898
Canada
keystring Offline
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keystring  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,898
Canada
Originally Posted by Lostinidlewonder
Personally I don't see why me sharing my insights into teaching should be taken as "dishonest" or cause feathers to be ruffled.....

Ok, this response suggests a problem that you are able to rectify if recognize it. You seem to have read my post in a hurry, and did not take time to understand it, and then taken on a defensive position of feeling attack. I was NOT writing about YOU, but about another teacher. You responded to what you thought I said, probably by skimming through and not checking. You took offensive to ruffled feathers, when the fact is that throughout this thread, feathers are being ruffled, whether or not they should be. The Notre Dame cathedral was on fire, whether or not it should be. Some problem is obviously happening in this thread. We cannot change others' behaviour, but if there is anything we ourselves can do, that is our control. It is possible that you are in "rapid send mode" and the receiving / hearing / listening mode isn't always where it should be. I don't know if that would improve things. But most factually, you just responded to something other than what was meant. That may be symptomatic.

Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: cmb13] #2849277
05/17/19 01:32 PM
05/17/19 01:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,278
Virginia, USA
T
TimR Offline
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TimR  Offline
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T

Joined: Aug 2004
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Virginia, USA
Originally Posted by cmb13

I haven’t read this entire thread,


Don't feel bad, nobody has.

Quote
I have taken tennis lessons intermittently over the years. Different instructors have different ideas as to what is correct. Differing opinions on grips, backhands, serving styles, strategies. When I take a lesson now, realizing I am the amalgamation of various teachers’ styles, it is counterproductive to start fresh with an entirely new style.


It's not a binary choice though is it? A transfer student can come in so badly damaged the only way to move forward is start all over and build correctly. That's at one end. But in the middle there are flaws that will limit the potential, but may be acceptable in terms of your goals, as with your tennis game.

Some years back I had to play in a celebrity golf tournament. (obligations at work) I took a lesson from the local pro, who turned out to be very knowledgable. He told me my self taught swing was a high hands variation of single axis, and it could be tweaked to make playing more enjoyable, but it had limitations and could never be competitive. If I needed to be good I would have to start over and learn the conventional swing - but knowing my goals he didn't recommend putting the effort in. So we agreed on a couple of basic improvements to use with my faulty but usable swing, and he gave me some sources for understanding my motions.

Fast forward to now. I no longer play ball golf at all, but I do play disc golf, and now I have faults that limit my enjoyments. I'm working on some boring and frustrating fundamentals, and progress is s.l.o.w. I really have to learn all over.


gotta go practice
Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: cmb13] #2849280
05/17/19 01:41 PM
05/17/19 01:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
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AZNpiano  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by cmb13
I haven’t read this entire thread, nor do I intend to

Oh, I love this disclaimer.

I don't think anybody intends to read 100,000 words of rubbish, written by somebody who thinks EVERYONE is dumber than a toaster, and thinks he "owns" the thread.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Re: Always build up, never break down. [Re: TimR] #2849287
05/17/19 01:49 PM
05/17/19 01:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
AZNpiano Offline
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AZNpiano  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,101
Orange County, CA
Originally Posted by TimR
There are two ways you show disrespect for your audience

Actually, there is a third mode of disrespect:

The OP thinks people who don't read his verbiage are illiterate.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
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