Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
110 registered members (AZNpiano, Aimer, Arty Movie, anotherscott, AaronSF, b3maniac, astrotoy, Avalanch, 24 invisible), 3,494 guests, and 5 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Benjamin Grosvenor Blüthner [Re: joe80] #2848665
05/16/19 06:24 AM
05/16/19 06:24 AM
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 441
D
DiarmuidD Offline
Full Member
DiarmuidD  Offline
Full Member
D

Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 441

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Benjamin Grosvenor Blüthner [Re: DiarmuidD] #2848690
05/16/19 08:30 AM
05/16/19 08:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 839
K
Karl Watson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Karl Watson  Offline
500 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 839
Friends:

It's distressing to find oneself in agreement with BDB on any subject at all, be it the time of day or the weather. And now, here I am, agreeing with him TWICE in two years. This is undeniable proof of the decline of civilisation.
The extremely semipro tech is correct about the model of Gould's Yamaha concert grand. I once met the man who sold him that piano, in NYC. He insisted that there was absolutely NOTHING unusual about it, that it was a very unexceptional instrument. But, as BDB opines, I'm sure that the action underwent SERIOUS regulation after GG took delivery.

Karl Watson,
Staten Island, NY

Last edited by Karl Watson; 05/16/19 08:31 AM.
Re: Benjamin Grosvenor Blüthner [Re: joe80] #2848756
05/16/19 11:22 AM
05/16/19 11:22 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,142
J
joe80 Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,142
It actually kind of makes sense that Gould would opt for an unexceptional instrument. His Steinway was by all accounts not that great, being 40 years old and battered by the time he bought it. His Chickering was absolutely terrible, if one listens to the recordings, and the Yamaha CF of that time was most probably not a patch on the CFIII or CFX of later years. Gould was looking for a particular quality that didn't necessarily equate to what the rest of us would regard as good tone.

...and it's OK to agree with BDB if he's telling the truth.

Re: Benjamin Grosvenor Blüthner [Re: joe80] #2848877
05/16/19 03:02 PM
05/16/19 03:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 137
Vienna, Austria
O
OE1FEU Offline
Full Member
OE1FEU  Offline
Full Member
O

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 137
Vienna, Austria
OK, I'll add some more mystery to the whole Yamaha thing. I actually found the contract for buying my Yamaha concert grand and it not only had the model listed, but also the serial number. The model was a CFII (2) 275 with the serial number 3340100 which translates to a manufacturing date of 1981.

Funnily enough, I couldn't find any further information on the instrument with regards to differences between a CF and a CFIII. However, I found that obviously Glenn Gould's 'Goldberg' piano was a CFII as well, so at least with regard to my ears I was right, because my piano sounded just like Gould's.

I apologize for any misinformation I gave; I was convinced I had a CFIII(S) and I can only assume that difference between a CFII and a CFIII isn't that big. I still remember this piano very fondly and given different circumstances (I now have an old Steinway B), I would probably try to buy a similar instrument. The action was just stunningly precise and a pleasure to play.

As to Gould: I listened to the Goldbergs from 1981 last night and what you can hear is that some notes have a double hammerstrike, something that almost kills the fun in listening to his recordings of the Bach partitas and Inventions. Obviously he had the action regulated in a really weird way, which was obviously more important than the sound of the instrument itself. Isn't his concert teechnician still alive and can enlighten on that?

Re: Benjamin Grosvenor Blüthner [Re: joe80] #2848919
05/16/19 04:45 PM
05/16/19 04:45 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,659
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,659
Oakland
The biggest difference I have seen is between the CFIII and the CFIIIs, but I have only seen the transition between those and the CFX. The CFIII had a webbed plate, and the CFIIIs had round holes.

I think Yamaha would retire their concert instruments by refurbishing them and selling them to colleges. Last I looked, there was a CFIII at Holy Names and a CFIIIs at Mills.


Semipro Tech
Re: Benjamin Grosvenor Blüthner [Re: joe80] #2848950
05/16/19 06:27 PM
05/16/19 06:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,142
J
joe80 Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,142
It's true some Yamaha CFIII had a webbed plate, but some did have round holes on the plate too. There was a CFIII in the RCS in Glasgow that had round holes, and a CFIIIS that also had round holes.

I know that Yamaha have always used the concert grands as a kind of laboratory, and there will be certain years where no two are identical (well, even more so than usual), but it might not be immediately obvious by looking at the pianos.

Re: Benjamin Grosvenor Blüthner [Re: joe80] #2848996
05/16/19 08:09 PM
05/16/19 08:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 137
Vienna, Austria
O
OE1FEU Offline
Full Member
OE1FEU  Offline
Full Member
O

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 137
Vienna, Austria
Originally Posted by joe80

I know that Yamaha have always used the concert grands as a kind of laboratory, and there will be certain years where no two are identical (well, even more so than usual), but it might not be immediately obvious by looking at the pianos.


That is incredibly fascinating.

Since I now know that I have obviously had such a laboratory intrument, I am really very intrigued to learn more about its provenience. I first played it in 1991 and was told that it has been a concert intrument in the Hamburg Conservatory of music. It was well played in and it has been refurbished with new hammerheads, but strings left original.

Could you give us some more backgrund on why the concert grands have been kind of a laboratory, how you've learned about this and how one can get some more details on what's actually been worked on with those experimental things?

Re: Benjamin Grosvenor Blüthner [Re: joe80] #2849249
05/17/19 12:31 PM
05/17/19 12:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,142
J
joe80 Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
joe80  Offline OP
3000 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,142
First of all I can't give you specific details, but when Artur Pizarro was using Yamaha concert grands a lot (perhaps he still is?) he took me to Yamaha London, and Kumi who was the concert and artist manager there at that time (we're talking about 2008) showed me a concert grand with the CFIIIS designation, but much of it had what became the scale design of the CFX, it was one on the way to being the CFX. It wasn't obvious from the plate or the external appearance but it had different hammer heads, slightly different bridge set up, different soundboard set up, etc. It just sang more.

I can't tell you much more than that, but I was told there in the Yamaha showroom by Kumi that Yamaha operated like this, and that when Yamaha introduced the CFIIIS, it was the best they made at the time and so they made it available, but that they were even in 1992 planning and developing the next model. I can't tell you more than that because I don't know.

Really, all makers do this. A Steinway D from 2019 is not the same as a Steinway D from 1998, nor 1978, etc, but in Steinways case they don't advertise the changes in the same way, nor do they put out a different model designation. I know that the Hamburg Steinway action from 1970 is quite a bit different to the present one, because technicians have told me so, but what the differences are exactly, I have no idea. It's nothing to do with teflon, since Hamburg never went there.

Re: Benjamin Grosvenor Blüthner [Re: joe80] #2849257
05/17/19 12:40 PM
05/17/19 12:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,659
Oakland
B
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
B

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 27,659
Oakland
I have been posting measurements of keyboard widths, which show the variation in Steinways from 1920 to the 1950s.

Yamaha tends to signify changes with a stamped letter before the serial number when it does not signify a different plant. That was the case of the CFIII versus the CFIIIs, even though, as I said, the change was much greater than any other change that I have seen in Yamaha pianos.


Semipro Tech
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Brass lick
by fatar760. 09/15/19 05:59 PM
Was Rachmaninov really a "triple threat"?
by pianoloverus. 09/15/19 05:31 PM
In ear headphones
by KevinM. 09/15/19 04:16 PM
Using an Institutional Piano at Home?
by navindra. 09/15/19 04:12 PM
Yohan Kim
by pianoloverus. 09/15/19 03:54 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,055
Posts2,869,751
Members94,421
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1