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Acoustics hybrids let off limitations #2847824
05/13/19 04:09 PM
05/13/19 04:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 307
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Sanfrancisco Offline OP
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Sanfrancisco  Offline OP
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Is it true that most acoustic hybrids such as Kawai, (except Yamaha) have a discernable limitation on let off regulation when in the acoustic mode? If so would this make it impossible to get a true concert regulation on these pianos? I rarely hear this mentioned when members talk just about advantages of acoustic hybrids. I know setting the let off as close as possible (workable) on my pianos made a marked difference as to ease of playing pp and ppp.

Last edited by Sanfrancisco; 05/13/19 04:13 PM.
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Re: Acoustics hybrids let off limitations [Re: Sanfrancisco] #2848019
05/14/19 08:41 AM
05/14/19 08:41 AM
Joined: May 2013
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Beemer Offline
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Can't see how this would be more important than the poor midi sound.

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Acoustics hybrids let off limitations [Re: Sanfrancisco] #2849026
05/16/19 09:54 PM
05/16/19 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 123
Washington State
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AWilley Offline
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I don't have any hands-on experience with acoustic hybrids, but it makes sense to me that they would have a minimum let-off limitation because you have to get the blocking bar/mechanism to contact the hammer shanks while the hammers are between letoff and the string. If you're outside the tolerance the hammer will either "block" against the bar or lightly hit the string. I'm commenting in ignorance though, and I don't know if the Kawai hybrids you're talking about have found a more creative way to block the hammers than the "bar" I occasionally see on other hybrid pianos.

Re: Acoustics hybrids let off limitations [Re: Beemer] #2849070
05/17/19 12:30 AM
05/17/19 12:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,663
Hobart, Australia
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ando Offline
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Originally Posted by Beemer
Can't see how this would be more important than the poor midi sound.

Ian

The mere fact that you have described the sound engine of a modern sound engine as the "midi sound" shows that you are living in the deep dark past with respect to these instruments. You need to update your knowledge of them to be commenting so authoritatively.

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Re: Acoustics hybrids let off limitations [Re: ando] #2849504
05/18/19 07:35 AM
05/18/19 07:35 AM
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Beemer Offline
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Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Beemer
Can't see how this would be more important than the poor midi sound.

Ian

The mere fact that you have described the sound engine of a modern sound engine as the "midi sound" shows that you are living in the deep dark past with respect to these instruments. You need to update your knowledge of them to be commenting so authoritatively.

Being 72, I always live in the past. My first in 1987 was an 88 key Kurzweil but more recently I have a Yamaha Tyros 5, 76 key and use Pianoteq 6 Standard version with Steinway B and Blüthner Model One add-ons.
All of these were, and are good sounding instruments but are no match for my Blüthner acoustic instrument. I may be guilty in saying "midi sound", but if I had said "sampled or modeled sound" it would still mean that the sound is inferior to the native acoustic sound of the hybrid. So my opinion about the let-off being of lesser importance in achieving the best sound stays relevant at least to me.

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Blüthner Model A
Re: Acoustics hybrids let off limitations [Re: Beemer] #2849600
05/18/19 12:06 PM
05/18/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,663
Hobart, Australia
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ando Offline
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ando  Offline
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Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by Beemer
Originally Posted by ando
Originally Posted by Beemer
Can't see how this would be more important than the poor midi sound.

Ian

The mere fact that you have described the sound engine of a modern sound engine as the "midi sound" shows that you are living in the deep dark past with respect to these instruments. You need to update your knowledge of them to be commenting so authoritatively.

Being 72, I always live in the past. My first in 1987 was an 88 key Kurzweil but more recently I have a Yamaha Tyros 5, 76 key and use Pianoteq 6 Standard version with Steinway B and Blüthner Model One add-ons.
All of these were, and are good sounding instruments but are no match for my Blüthner acoustic instrument. I may be guilty in saying "midi sound", but if I had said "sampled or modeled sound" it would still mean that the sound is inferior to the native acoustic sound of the hybrid. So my opinion about the let-off being of lesser importance in achieving the best sound stays relevant at least to me.

Ian

I'd say it all adds up and every bit counts. Of course, I prefer a real acoustic grand myself over a hybrid, but I think we have to recognise how far the sound engines have come in these hybrids - Yamaha has 4 channel sampling now, more sophisticated resonance modelling and they even made a binaural sample set specifically for when using headphones. Whilst it might not be a grand piano yet, it is getting remarkably good and very musical. Some fine musicians are using them now and stating that they are very good pianos to practice with and they have minimal adjustments when switching over to a real grand.

With that in mind, I think even though the sound is not quite perfect yet, the predictability of the action and the comparison to the response of a real grand becomes a very salient matter, so parameters like let off become very relevant because it can determine just how authentic the action feels and how the sound engine is triggered - which has implications for pianists who use them as practice workhorses in preparation for recitals on acoustic grands. So, I do think that it is a relevant question regardless of whether the sound is perfect at this point in time.


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