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N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq #2848739
05/16/19 10:39 AM
05/16/19 10:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,073
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content OP
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content OP
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,073
Sofia, Bulgaria
There was a very old thread in the past where I recorded the Chopin Prelude in Em with various VST-s and I also posted the MIDI file for people to compare.

I didn't have time to look for it again and I prefer always playing the pianos live to have the aural feedback than use a MIDI file, so created a quick comparison today with N1X vs Garritan CFX Full and Pianoteq 6.5 (released yesterday).

I was in a hurry and couldn't show my best, and also my daughter went in the middle of recording the last one (Bechstein DG) and I was barely able to hear how I will finish it but anyway smile

Yamaha N1X binaural

Garritan CFX Full

Pianoteq 6.5 - Steinway D ("Prelude" preset)

Pianoteq 6.5 - Bechstein DG ("Prelude" preset)

All are WAV files. In Pianoteq when exporting I selected high quality and normalization. For the Garritan and the N1X I normalized the wav files in Oceanaudio on my Mac to -1dB. No other changes are done.

P.S. Pianoteq is a trial version, so a few black keys at the end are silent

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/16/19 10:42 AM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
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Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848746
05/16/19 11:06 AM
05/16/19 11:06 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 267
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pold Offline
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you know the drill...garritan and pianoteq sound both good, and yamaha sounds like a piano toy from 1980.

Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848761
05/16/19 11:32 AM
05/16/19 11:32 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,744
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Pete14 Offline
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I think the last chord says it all: N1X is simply a set of notes piled up together. Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered. wink
Garritan is okay.

Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: Pete14] #2848772
05/16/19 11:45 AM
05/16/19 11:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,243
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by Pete14
Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered. wink

See my forum signature. You have just been memorialized! thumb


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848780
05/16/19 12:06 PM
05/16/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
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Pete14 Offline
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blush

Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848781
05/16/19 12:06 PM
05/16/19 12:06 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,164
Dublin
johnstaf Online crying
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Dublin
The new version of Pianoteq is a big improvement. The binaural recording of the CFX reminds me of sitting in a small studio with a big piano -as it should, I suppose. I like it.

Last edited by johnstaf; 05/16/19 12:07 PM.
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848783
05/16/19 12:09 PM
05/16/19 12:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 534
Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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Greater Chicago Metro Area
Thanks for posting the Wave files to Dropbox CyberGene. I have to say Pianoteq is getting there. I'm glad I brought it several years ago. I still have to buy one of the more recent add-on instrument packs.


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848786
05/16/19 12:15 PM
05/16/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,073
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content OP
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content OP
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The Steinway D is a nasty affair which is obvious in the repeating chords but I can admit the Bechstein DG is a really good patch. Maybe I can still detect the typical modeling sound I don’t like but it’s the best from Pianoteq I’ve heard so far smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848789
05/16/19 12:17 PM
05/16/19 12:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 127
Portugal
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MarioPf Offline
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After hearing these recordings several times, I've reached the following conclusions:

1. Yamaha N1X binaural - In the first round it was my least favourit piano sound, because it feels too dry. But in the third round this impression was inverted and the N1X seems to me to have the best overall sound. I think I can play with this sound for hours without becoming tired but I can't say I love these piano sound.

2. Garritan CFX Full - The best in the first round but in the other rounds the reverberation feells annoying.

3. Pianoteq 6.5 - Steinway D - The high and low notes seemed ok but the chords in the left hand don't sound to me like a Steinway D. If feels like it was another person playing these chords in another piano.

4. Pianoteq 6.5 - Bechstein DG - Ok but not great.

Thank you for these experience!

Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848792
05/16/19 12:19 PM
05/16/19 12:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,243
Tyrone Slothrop Online content
Tyrone Slothrop  Online Content

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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Tbut I can admit the Bechstein DG is a really good patch. Maybe I can still detect the typical modeling sound I don’t like but it’s the best from Pianoteq I’ve heard so far smile

C. Bechstein DG is my current favorite from Pianoteq. I've been using it as my go to for my FP30. It's the one I used for this ABF recital submission of a few days ago.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848793
05/16/19 12:23 PM
05/16/19 12:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 614
UK
thickfingers Offline
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thickfingers  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2018
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UK
Originally Posted by CyberGene
but it’s the best from Pianoteq I’ve heard so far smile

Still gaaaarbage, though? You didn't say. Which was unusual...grin

Thanks for the update heads up, btw. Downloaded and being evaluated as we speak, to see just how much better it is than an N1X. cool

Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848794
05/16/19 12:23 PM
05/16/19 12:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 166
Moscow, Russia
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Max_Forte Offline
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Moscow, Russia
Originally Posted by CyberGene
The Steinway D is a nasty affair which is obvious in the repeating chords but I can admit the Bechstein DG is a really good patch. Maybe I can still detect the typical modeling sound I don’t like but it’s the best from Pianoteq I’ve heard so far smile


Is it because we all know Steinway sound very well? Bluethner, Grotrian, Petrof, Bechstein: All of them are more pleasant to my ear...


Casio PX-350
Komplete 12 Ult: UVI - Falcon; Vilabs - Ravenscroft; Pianoteq - 6 Std (Bluthner, Steinway D, K2); Galaxy - Vintage D, Vienna Grand; Production Voices - All Kontakt libs; Lounge Lizard EP-4; Neo-Soul Keys; AS - C7 Grand; Addictive Keys- All
Zoom UAC-2; Beyers DT-880 PRO; JBL - LSR305
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: Pete14] #2848806
05/16/19 12:41 PM
05/16/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 844
N
Nordomus Online content
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Nordomus  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Pete14
I think the last chord says it all: N1X is simply a set of notes piled up together. Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered. wink
Garritan is okay.

This... this is beautiful smile

Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848810
05/16/19 12:45 PM
05/16/19 12:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,449
Lampedusa
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newer player Offline
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Lampedusa
Nice playing CyberGene. And thank you for taking the time to put these recordings together for a quick "shootout".

The N1X sound is quite impressive.

The Garrian CFX sometimes exhibits a cohesiveness. Alas, the ambient room & the noise floor probably contribute to that cohesiveness and get slightly irritating. I turn down the ambient mics and that helps a bit.

The PianoTeq is improving but still has some non-natural sounds to my ears, although I prefer the Bechstein over the Steinway.

I suppose the player's live "experience" is not really captured by the wav files, which is most relevant for some of us. Do you feel the playing experience (ignoring sound quality) is significantly better on one of the platforms?


Last edited by newer player; 05/16/19 12:50 PM.
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: Nordomus] #2848811
05/16/19 12:48 PM
05/16/19 12:48 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 534
Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 534
Greater Chicago Metro Area
Originally Posted by Nordomus
Originally Posted by Pete14
I think the last chord says it all: N1X is simply a set of notes piled up together. Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered. wink
Garritan is okay.

This... this is beautiful smile


LOL It is nice that Pianoteq is keeps improving and does give an alternative to sampled pianos. I think Pianoteq is wonderful myself. YMMV smile


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848813
05/16/19 12:51 PM
05/16/19 12:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,073
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content OP
4000 Post Club Member
CyberGene  Online Content OP
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,073
Sofia, Bulgaria
I went through the files now with my headphones and while I like the N1X best, I can also understand why people may not be impressed. It shows nothing about its playability that puts it miles ahead of the other three. Maybe that can also be achieved with a note by note editing in Pianoteq but as of now the N1X expectedly is the only one which feels like a real piano, and an excellent one at that, when played. The others have slight discrepancies, would need voicing here and there, maybe brightening some notes, darkening others, changing velocity not just globally but in regions or even per key, etc.

P.S. That Steinway is such a shame... It epitomizes everything I used to hate about Pianoteq. But the Bechstein makes up for it and is a promising step towards the hope modeled pianos can actually compete with sampled ones. Not a giant leap, but not a small step either smile

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/16/19 12:55 PM.

My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848816
05/16/19 12:59 PM
05/16/19 12:59 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,428
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
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Doug M.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,428
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by CyberGene
There was a very old thread in the past where I recorded the Chopin Prelude in Em with various VST-s and I also posted the MIDI file for people to compare.

I didn't have time to look for it again and I prefer always playing the pianos live to have the aural feedback than use a MIDI file, so created a quick comparison today with N1X vs Garritan CFX Full and Pianoteq 6.5 (released yesterday).

I was in a hurry and couldn't show my best, and also my daughter went in the middle of recording the last one (Bechstein DG) and I was barely able to hear how I will finish it but anyway smile

Yamaha N1X binaural

Garritan CFX Full

Pianoteq 6.5 - Steinway D ("Prelude" preset)

Pianoteq 6.5 - Bechstein DG ("Prelude" preset)

All are WAV files. In Pianoteq when exporting I selected high quality and normalization. For the Garritan and the N1X I normalized the wav files in Oceanaudio on my Mac to -1dB. No other changes are done.

P.S. Pianoteq is a trial version, so a few black keys at the end are silent


Hi CyberGene,

Nice playing!

What would be cool would be an acoustic recording of the same by your hand. Do you have a spare CFX grand? 😉

Interesting, although I think that the Pianoteq needs more bass in the EQ or maybe just the mids seem too loud. Liked the Garritans most though.

Kind regards

Doug


Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: Doug M.] #2848819
05/16/19 01:10 PM
05/16/19 01:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,428
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Doug M.  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,428
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Originally Posted by Doug M.
Originally Posted by CyberGene
There was a very old thread in the past where I recorded the Chopin Prelude in Em with various VST-s and I also posted the MIDI file for people to compare.

I didn't have time to look for it again and I prefer always playing the pianos live to have the aural feedback than use a MIDI file, so created a quick comparison today with N1X vs Garritan CFX Full and Pianoteq 6.5 (released yesterday).

I was in a hurry and couldn't show my best, and also my daughter went in the middle of recording the last one (Bechstein DG) and I was barely able to hear how I will finish it but anyway smile

Yamaha N1X binaural

Garritan CFX Full

Pianoteq 6.5 - Steinway D ("Prelude" preset)

Pianoteq 6.5 - Bechstein DG ("Prelude" preset)

All are WAV files. In Pianoteq when exporting I selected high quality and normalization. For the Garritan and the N1X I normalized the wav files in Oceanaudio on my Mac to -1dB. No other changes are done.

P.S. Pianoteq is a trial version, so a few black keys at the end are silent


Hi CyberGene,

Nice playing!

What would be cool would be an acoustic recording of the same by your hand. Do you have a spare CFX grand? 😉

Interesting, although I think that the Pianoteq needs more bass in the EQ or maybe just the mids seem too loud. Liked the Garritans most though.

Kind regards

Doug

Just listened to a few other Pianoteq renditions and they are all similar in sound. Seems that bell like aftertaste is too prominent.

Last edited by Doug M.; 05/16/19 01:11 PM.

Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848821
05/16/19 01:16 PM
05/16/19 01:16 PM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,217
Moscow, Russia
I
Iaroslav Vasiliev Online content
1000 Post Club Member
Iaroslav Vasiliev  Online Content
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I

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,217
Moscow, Russia
Thank you very much, CyberGene! It's a comparison that I wanted to listen to.

Of that four I'd surely prefer Garritan, it has most rich, resonant sound in my opinion. I was negatively suprised by choppy chords on both Pianoteq plugins, it almost destroyed the prelude. N1X seems to lack resonance.

Re: N1X vs Garritan CFX vs Pianoteq [Re: CyberGene] #2848825
05/16/19 01:23 PM
05/16/19 01:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,428
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Doug M. Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Doug M.  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,428
Cheshire, United Kingdom
Hi guys,

This is a recording of the Rd2000 of the same piece: sound patch 0003 mellow concert.



Instruments: Current - Kawai MP7; Past - Yamaha PSR7000
Software: Sibelius 7; Neuratron Photoscore Pro 8
Stand: K&M 18953 Table-style Stage Piano Stand
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