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Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848130 05/14/19 03:31 PM
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ebonykawai Offline OP
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Do you mean the RX-1? I've never heard of a GX-1 made by Kawai.


Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
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Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848166 05/14/19 05:54 PM
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The GX-1 is the current generation and successor to the RX-1 (~1995 - 2017?).


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848187 05/14/19 07:02 PM
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ebonykawai Offline OP
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Sam,

That would be why I'm not familiar with them, lol. They are priced vastly above anything I could ever afford. 😊

The GL series is wonderfull, I like it a lot. I feel it's quite superior to the KG1E. Not sure why that's significant. I like many brand new pianos over this 30 year old Kawai, including the Bechsteins, Yamahas, and Steinways.

I do, however, find it very significant to try and determine a fair price for a used piano, as well as a fair price for a brand new one. These forums are here for that very reason, among others. I'm sure dealers reject some pianos. They also often pay scads below what the piano is worth to uninformed traders/buyers/sellers. We all have to make a living. But this isn't a war, buyers/sellers vs dealers. I'm simply trying to not be taken advantage of, just like everyone else on these boards.



Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848515 05/15/19 03:50 PM
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Despite the fact that the KG grands are good, this one sounds over priced. If you are reaching that budget, consider a new Kawai GL10 with MIII action

Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848526 05/15/19 04:54 PM
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I'm with you, Lisa. I asked about the GL because the best gauge for the value of used is the price of new equivalent. If the KG-1E is most similar to a GL30 (but with the GL having the advantage of being new) then the depreciated value of the KG-1E should be priced relative to that new model. That's how the depreciation guides work for most pianos in that large middle category of above average quality with the brand still in production. For decades, Kawai also made GE-series, below the KG/RX lines. The GL line is a mix of designs from the GM, GE, KG/RX series.

I know that if I ever quote someone a range estimate for a potential service, they only remember the bottom number. I know that the numbers that favor one side or the other are used. If you want to bring an offer to the seller, its their choice again. I'm not telling you the price is good or bad, I'm telling you that it's potentially in range, just in the same way that others are convinced it is high.

We recently delivered a 30 year old Yamaha C7 to a chamber music organization. Several members of their board had recently purchased smaller Yamaha grands for their home, and they were blown away by the condition and performance of the instrument we delivered. The price would have been high for one of good, but average condition, but for this piano, it became a great value because of the attention to many details. Those details made it good purchase for them piano.

A "comp" for the Kawai KG-1 would be Yamaha's G1. While Yamaha does command a modest premium, a pristine G1 from that age might command similar dollars. We sold a 1989 Yamaha G1 for ~$9k. We did install new bass strings and front key busthings on it, but otherwise, "refurbished, original" condition. We sold an original 1984 Yamaha G1 in mahogany, pristine, in the mid-$8ks. Due to unusual circumstances with a the first customer's hearing loss, we sold it twice for that price.

Yamaha's lower level GH1 commonly competed against Kawai's GE models. They frequently bring less. Another "comp" for the KG-1E would be the Boston GP163. The Boston's began production ~1991, so there are some that are close in age, and I would call them very comparable in quality at that time. Later KG-1E's were made with better components than some of the earlier KG-1's.

Based on what I can gather, Atlanta's piano market tends to be priced just a little below average of other large market cities in the US, not as aggressive as some West coast markets, but nowhere near the highest priced markets. Small market prices are truly unpredictable, in my experience. I hope that is helpful perspective and some concrete information.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848588 05/15/19 09:18 PM
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ebonykawai Offline OP
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Well, comparing a 30 year old KG to a GL30 isn't just to say that the GL is new, it's also completely redesigned. Apples and oranges, really, when it comes down to it. They are totally different pianos.


Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848592 05/15/19 09:34 PM
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LOL, I left the room for too long and now I can't edit the above. 🙄

Anyway, I was about to say that Yamaha G1s currently listed on Ebay are priced higher than the KG1s, anywhere from $3800 to $9500. Unlike the KG1s, however, none have actually sold. If you look under completed auctions, nothing comes up. It's interesting.

The issue with Bostons is that buyers are also paying a permiun for the brand because they're connected to Steinway. It's just not that easy to compare different pianos to each other that way. It's much more reasonable, imo, to compare them to each other and get an idea of relative asking price by seeing what they are listed at and where. Craigslist and Ebay are pretty helpful in that respect. At least, it's been helpful to me.


Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848605 05/15/19 11:14 PM
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I used to check out Craigslist and eBay daily for used pianos as a past-time/hobby; kind of like reading the newspaper every morning. But who reads the paper version of the morning newspaper anymore? smile

I saw the Howard/Kawai 550 (same as Kawai KG2, 5'10") on Craigslist in southeast Georgia near Augusta, about 300 miles away from my location. The seller started out asking like $3500. Craigslist is set up to view ads in certain cities/locals. I'd go down the list of areas all over Georgia, although Atlanta is the biggest local, I suppose. The Howard 550 did catch my eye for some reason, and the ad stated that they had built a new house and though the piano was more or less a family heirloom, she didn't want it in her new house.

After a few weeks, I noticed the price started to come down in the CL ad. $3000, then $2500, then $2000 over a period of several weeks. And, although I really didn't need another piano, per-se, the lure of a good buy/bargain on a nice baby grand piano of that caliber was a big temptation. I called the lady and talked to her about the piano. She said her parents bought if for her new when she was 16 years old and taking piano lessons. Since it was a 1969 model, that is a long time to own a piano. She said the lessons never really help her to develop the skill to play the piano much and it remained unplayed most of its life, although she did say it was tuned occasionally. She also said it was still on its side on the mover's skid-board wrapped in quilts under her carport.

I explained to her that I was more or less a piano enthusiast and liked pianos and really didn't need another piano. Next, I swallowed hard and got the lump of fear out of my throat and asked if she would consider an offer of $1500 cash for the piano. Oddly enough, she didn't think about it long at all and agreed to sell it for $1500. Now, I know this goes against all sound piano wisdom and logic, but I bought the piano sight unseen and unplayed. I knew it was a gamble, but $1500 for a piano of that caliber and reputation was worth the gamble, based on the information I was given by the seller. She was ready to get rid of it and out of her garage.

So, I made arrangements for the move, and had it delivered to my home, which was another $300, but that was a good deal as well. I was nervous and excited all at the same time, but after I got the piano home and checked it over good, and played it a little, I knew my big gamble had paid off. It was everything I had hoped it would be. The first time I tuned it, it held its tuning like a rock, and didn't need tuning again for months. The bass strings were a little weak sounding from age itself, and I tired twisting them a couple of turns to get a better tone, which may have helped some. But it still could use new bass strings. The plain-wire strings sounded very good to me with no rust and the hammers had very little wear; almost no string grooves at all.

It cleaned up very well, and I removed the action and lubricated the knuckles with powdered teflon and used ProTeK CLP on all the flanged joints. The action is still a tad heavy, but many older Kawai grand piano actions are. But I like a firm feeling action to an extent. The key bushings were very tight, like a new piano. I've enjoyed playing it a lot. And, I know that my granddaughter will enjoy it as well, whenever my son can find room for it in his house.

I'm not sure why I'm telling this story when I know that some here would disagree with me and criticize me for some of the decisions I made, but, oh well, you can't please everyone. smile

Sometimes a gamble pays off and sometimes it doesn't. But it was another fun piano adventure that I can share on Piano World. smile

Moral of the story? The bargain pianos are rare and don't come up for sale often. You have to search for them diligently and be willing to take risks. It's less risky to buy from a reputable dealer, at a fair price, of course.

Heck, I should write a book about my piano adventures... or not. smile

Wishing you all the best in your piano adventures as well, Ebonykawai!!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848674 05/16/19 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Thanks so much for all the input, everyone! I'll have to pass on this, just because I can't see any possible negotiation that would work. This starting price is just too high, and my 1 year old upright is probably worth about what this 30 year old grand is worth, so it's just a no-go from the start, unfortunately. A fair trade would be impossible.

Ah well, I've been looking for the right grand for about 10 years now. Some day it will come....


And here, I thought the 3 years I took to find my perfect grand was a long time. Wishing you all the best luck in your search.

Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848705 05/16/19 08:24 AM
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Great story, Rick, congrats on that lovely grand! You definitely should write a book!!! Thanks everyone for the input! I'm passing on the Kawai.


Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: BigIslandGuy] #2848706 05/16/19 08:28 AM
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ebonykawai Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BigIslandGuy


And here, I thought the 3 years I took to find my perfect grand was a long time. Wishing you all the best luck in your search.


I did have a very nice Baldwin R for a time, but my music room is small and it overwhelmed the room. That's really why it's taking me so long. I need a 5'5" or thereabouts and I'm really picky, LOL. 😊


Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848785 05/16/19 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Well, comparing a 30 year old KG to a GL30 isn't just to say that the GL is new, it's also completely redesigned. Apples and oranges, really, when it comes down to it. They are totally different pianos.
There are significant changes, but no, not completely redesigned, not apples to oranges. The lineage of the current grand models and the specs of the GL line in comparison with the KG-1E make such comparisons reasonable.

If the instruments don't at least remind you of each other, then perhaps the older one needs some attention.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: Rickster] #2848986 05/16/19 06:52 PM
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NobleHouse Online Content
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Originally Posted by Rickster
I used to check out Craigslist and eBay daily for used pianos as a past-time/hobby; kind of like reading the newspaper every morning. But who reads the paper version of the morning newspaper anymore? smile

I saw the Howard/Kawai 550 (same as Kawai KG2, 5'10") on Craigslist in southeast Georgia near Augusta, about 300 miles away from my location. The seller started out asking like $3500. Craigslist is set up to view ads in certain cities/locals. I'd go down the list of areas all over Georgia, although Atlanta is the biggest local, I suppose. The Howard 550 did catch my eye for some reason, and the ad stated that they had built a new house and though the piano was more or less a family heirloom, she didn't want it in her new house.

After a few weeks, I noticed the price started to come down in the CL ad. $3000, then $2500, then $2000 over a period of several weeks. And, although I really didn't need another piano, per-se, the lure of a good buy/bargain on a nice baby grand piano of that caliber was a big temptation. I called the lady and talked to her about the piano. She said her parents bought if for her new when she was 16 years old and taking piano lessons. Since it was a 1969 model, that is a long time to own a piano. She said the lessons never really help her to develop the skill to play the piano much and it remained unplayed most of its life, although she did say it was tuned occasionally. She also said it was still on its side on the mover's skid-board wrapped in quilts under her carport.

I explained to her that I was more or less a piano enthusiast and liked pianos and really didn't need another piano. Next, I swallowed hard and got the lump of fear out of my throat and asked if she would consider an offer of $1500 cash for the piano. Oddly enough, she didn't think about it long at all and agreed to sell it for $1500. Now, I know this goes against all sound piano wisdom and logic, but I bought the piano sight unseen and unplayed. I knew it was a gamble, but $1500 for a piano of that caliber and reputation was worth the gamble, based on the information I was given by the seller. She was ready to get rid of it and out of her garage.

So, I made arrangements for the move, and had it delivered to my home, which was another $300, but that was a good deal as well. I was nervous and excited all at the same time, but after I got the piano home and checked it over good, and played it a little, I knew my big gamble had paid off. It was everything I had hoped it would be. The first time I tuned it, it held its tuning like a rock, and didn't need tuning again for months. The bass strings were a little weak sounding from age itself, and I tired twisting them a couple of turns to get a better tone, which may have helped some. But it still could use new bass strings. The plain-wire strings sounded very good to me with no rust and the hammers had very little wear; almost no string grooves at all.

It cleaned up very well, and I removed the action and lubricated the knuckles with powdered teflon and used ProTeK CLP on all the flanged joints. The action is still a tad heavy, but many older Kawai grand piano actions are. But I like a firm feeling action to an extent. The key bushings were very tight, like a new piano. I've enjoyed playing it a lot. And, I know that my granddaughter will enjoy it as well, whenever my son can find room for it in his house.

I'm not sure why I'm telling this story when I know that some here would disagree with me and criticize me for some of the decisions I made, but, oh well, you can't please everyone. smile

Sometimes a gamble pays off and sometimes it doesn't. But it was another fun piano adventure that I can share on Piano World. smile

Moral of the story? The bargain pianos are rare and don't come up for sale often. You have to search for them diligently and be willing to take risks. It's less risky to buy from a reputable dealer, at a fair price, of course.

Heck, I should write a book about my piano adventures... or not. smile

Wishing you all the best in your piano adventures as well, Ebonykawai!!

Rick


I loved your story! And it is true that sometimes you will end up lucky by taking a calculated risk.


[Linked Image]
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2849021 05/16/19 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by NobleHouse
I loved your story! And it is true that sometimes you will end up lucky by taking a calculated risk.

Thanks for the kind words, NobleHouse. I wish I was as lucky playing the lottery as I've been with the pianos I've bought. But I've come out on the losing end way more with the lottery than I have with pianos. smile

Fact is, I don't play the lottery anymore. Maybe I should, or not... smile

Wishing you all the best with your piano search, Ebonykawai!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2849038 05/16/19 09:19 PM
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ebonykawai Offline OP
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Thanks, guys! 😊


Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2849117 05/17/19 05:23 AM
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Since you liked the Baldwin R, have you considered the Baldwin M 5'2"? May be richer tone that the 5'4" Kawai, though they are likewise nice pianos.


Baldwin M
Casio PX-330
Casio AP-45
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2849218 05/17/19 10:28 AM
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ebonykawai Offline OP
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I've been looking for an M for a loooong time. That's actually been my 1st choice for years. They don't come up around here very often. The couple that have were extremely old and, as always, ridiculously overpriced.


Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2849238 05/17/19 11:14 AM
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Hi Lisa
Could you possibly travel to buy the piano and have it shipped to you? It would open up a whole range of possibilities as well as possibly lower your cost 😊


"Music, rich, full of feeling, not soulless, is like a crystal on which the sun falls and brings forth from it a whole rainbow" - F. Chopin
" I never dreamt with my own two hands I could touch the sky" - Sappho

It’s ok to be a Work In Progress
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2849370 05/17/19 05:12 PM
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ebonykawai Offline OP
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I'm not that desperate yet, LOL.


Lisa

Currently working on RCM 7 repertoire
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
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