2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Free Trial
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

Who's Online Now
31 registered members (barbaram, AYS, CognitaP, Beemer, Animisha, ChrisGoesPiano, 7 invisible), 271 guests, and 376 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #1743143 08/30/11 08:53 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 783
S
Steve Jackson Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
S
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 783

My experience with the window UV coverings is not positive, and
I had to rebuild a Bechstein because the owner believed the sales
hype. After an expensive restoration, they were then able to
find another place for the piano.

Cover the windows if you can't move the piano with an
opaque thick material during the sunny times.

Take care,

Steve

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #1743149 08/30/11 09:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 824
M
MU51C JP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 824
Hi Doug : I find that pianos placed where direct sunlight is able to stream onto them are constantly in danger of being seriously affected both tuning wise and in some cases, structurally. I don't even like tuning a clients piano when direct sunlight is playing on the strings! It takes surprisingly little time to have an effect. The suggestion of covering your piano with a cloth would indeed help, but in my experience I would always advise using a white cloth so that the maximum amount of sunlight is reflected away from the instrument. Another popular method (here in the UK) is to fit verticle blinds to the window. When closed this type of blind stops the direct sunlight dead in it's tracks, but allows plenty of diffused light into the room. The ONLY positive effect of sunlight as far as pianos are concerned, is when it falls onto Ivory keys ... it bleaches the natural ivory keeping it looking beautifully white .... a word of warning though .... anything other than natural ivory will be turned yellow! Whatever method you decide to use will make a difference ... but the white cloth or window blinds will make a huge difference, and your piano will need far less attention from your tuner.


Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 52 years in the United Kingdom
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #1743275 08/30/11 01:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,365
P
Pianolance Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,365
Years ago I was the pianist for a large church in suburban Maryland. The sanctuary was minimally heated and cooled during the week and was brought to temperature only when people were going to be in it. In the winter, when there was a pretty cool ambient temperature during the week, the piano would go out of tune when the sanctuary was warmed up and the stage lighting hit the piano. After a few months I finally figured our that the 7' Schimmel was too pure and sensative of an instrument to take that kind of swing and still sound good. I learned to turn on the heat or air and lights about an hour before the tuner arrived. The piano sounded bad during the week, but on Sunday morning it came back to life and sounded great. I say this as an illustration on how much changing temperatures can affect a piano. If you touch your piano and if feels warm when the sunlight is streaming through the windows then it is stressing the piano. I think that UV blocking film is an excellent idea, and the more you can diffuse the sunlight the better. Trees, shades, awning?, the less swing your piano experiences in temperature the better.


Knabe 5'2" Louis XV Walnut circa 1927
Very part time piano broker.
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #1743878 08/31/11 01:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 348
B
Brent B Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 348
I didn't realize you had picked out your Steinway B already. Just a couple weeks ago you said you'd be picking one out at the Steinway Factory in "a couple of months."

Congratulations! How was your experience at the Steinway Factory?



Estonia 190
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: Steve Jackson] #1743947 08/31/11 03:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,983
lilylady Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 4,983
Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

My experience with the window UV coverings is not positive, and
I had to rebuild a Bechstein because the owner believed the sales
hype. After an expensive restoration, they were then able to
find another place for the piano.

Cover the windows if you can't move the piano with an
opaque thick material during the sunny times.

Take care,

Steve


This is alarming. Could you share further information? Some of us are still thinking this would be a good way to go.

Are you saying that it is not the UV that is causing the problem? Does the UV not stop the heat as well as the strong light? As you can see, I am rather clueless. Please be patient and tell us more why the piano failed with this type of window film.

Thank you.


"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and life to everything."
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #1743957 08/31/11 03:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 824
M
MU51C JP Offline
500 Post Club Member
Offline
500 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 824
UV film only arrests the UV, not the heat. It's like when you apply UV suncream .... You don't get burnt as much but you still experience the sun's heat.The main reason UV film is used on windows is to stop colours fading. If you need to protect your piano from sunlight damage, it should only ever be subjected to defused sunlight as per window blinds or a light coloured ( white is best) piano cover. We're pretty lucky here in the UK though ..... sadly not much sun to worry about frown But when it does shine onto a piano .... boy does it have a dramatic effect!


Concert Tuner & Technician for the past 52 years in the United Kingdom
www.jphillipspianoservices.freeindex.co.uk : E-mail jophillips06@aol.com
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #1743962 08/31/11 04:05 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 242
B
bessel Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 242

FYI, they do make infrared (IR) blocking films too - modern windows often incorporate IR blocking for energy savings. I believe the IR blocking ones often block UV too, so you'd get both features at once. Of course neither works as well as an opaque blind... but the IR blocking can keep the room itself from cycling hot/cold too much.

(BTW, just joined the forum after weeks of enjoyable lurking... cheers!)


Started playing: February 2011. Still having fun.
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #1744307 09/01/11 05:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Mark R. Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 2,265
Bessel:
Welcome to the forum!

All:
I've posted this in another thread, but will repeat it here: I believe that even if you've taken care of UV radiation, temperature cycling can still be quite detrimental to a piano's finish. The previous owner of my 1970 Ibach console had it standing with its left side (almost) against an exterior wall that received noon and afternoon sun. The piano received no direct sunlight, and even the indirect sunlight was very muted.

While the finish on the rest of the piano shows only occasional cracking or minor crazing, the left side panel looks like this:
[Linked Image]

In places, the varnish is actually flaking off.


Autodidact interested in piano technology.
LinkedIn profile
1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #1744449 09/01/11 10:51 AM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,751
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,751
I have neighbors with an eastern facing set of windows in their sun room. They have good windows - but in the morning, the heat really poors in.

I concur with folks that there are at least 2 issues - one being the fading on the finish - but the more significant one is the heat and temperature fluctuations that you will experience on the piano. For a fine piano like you have - this is very bad.

My suggestion - have you seen those screens people put in their car windshields that protect the interior of their car from excessive heat? There are blankets made of a similar, sun reflecting material. You might need more than one. I would probably put a normal padded cover on the piano and then cover the piano with a heat reflecting blanket. The padded piano cover would act as insulation - and the heat reflecting blanket would keep the heat hitting the piano to a minimum.

Some of the "heat" your experiencing from people on the forum is that having a piano in the window is considered about the worst thing one can do to a piano. Lots of people with more money than judgment like to show their "class" by cooking their grand piano in their picture window. I don't sense that is what you're doing. In some homes, there really is only one option, and one has to make the best of it. Really good windows, film and a cover system like I'm suggesting should help.

Mind you, I keep my piano covered by a padded piano cover when I'm not playing. It doesn't show off the piano - but I'm not for showing off the piano. One can always demonstrate one's good taste to guests with fine art, good wine and some appropriate quotes from Gertrude Stein or Charlie Brown.

Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: lilylady] #1744498 09/01/11 12:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Sparky McBiff Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Originally Posted by lilylady


This is alarming. Could you share further information? Some of us are still thinking this would be a good way to go.

Are you saying that it is not the UV that is causing the problem? Does the UV not stop the heat as well as the strong light? As you can see, I am rather clueless. Please be patient and tell us more why the piano failed with this type of window film.

Thank you.

It is actually the infrared which carries most of the heat and that is at the complete other end of the visible light spectrum.
Of the range of visible light that we see (although we don't really "see" IR or UV), ultraviolet is at one end (the blue end) whereas Infrared is at the other end (the red end) and something that is designed to block the shorter wavelengths of UV will probably not block the longer wavelengths of infrared.

Last edited by Sparky McBiff; 09/01/11 12:09 PM.
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: Sparky McBiff] #1744559 09/01/11 01:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 242
B
bessel Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 242
Originally Posted by Sparky McBiff

It is actually the infrared which carries most of the heat and that is at the complete other end of the visible light spectrum.
Of the range of visible light that we see (although we don't really "see" IR or UV), ultraviolet is at one end (the blue end) whereas Infrared is at the other end (the red end) and something that is designed to block the shorter wavelengths of UV will probably not block the longer wavelengths of infrared.


I just did some quick googling, and it appears that you can get films that block 30-80% or so of the sun's "heat" (infrared) while at the same time blocking almost all (say 99%) of the UV. Example:
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...un_Control_Window_Films/Prestige_Series/

I think modern E-glass windows have similar properties. I had a window installer come demo a window with E-glass vs regular, and the difference in how much heat you could feel through it (with a bright floodlight on the other side) was remarkable.

You can also get films that block the UV and don't block the infrared much at all, so you'd have to be careful.

Blocking a factor of 2 or 3 of the heat is a win, but given that the sun is about 1 kilowatt per square meter, and you've got a couple square meters of piano, I wouldn't rely on just a film to stop the heat unless you test it and find it's okay.


Started playing: February 2011. Still having fun.
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: Brent B] #1744699 09/01/11 05:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 111
N
NFexec Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 111
I actually have an appointment with a sales rep next week to come out and give me a quote on that 3M Prestige product!

Originally Posted by Brent B
I didn't realize you had picked out your Steinway B already. Just a couple weeks ago you said you'd be picking one out at the Steinway Factory in "a couple of months."

Congratulations! How was your experience at the Steinway Factory?

Hi Brent,

No - I have not yet gone to the factory. The "B" WILL be in that spot in about a month. I travel to NYC on 9/14. I'll definitely report about my experience!

And it is true that I am not spending a fortune (in my world) on a piano to impress others. I'm doing it because I want to advance my playing on a piano that I've wanted for a long, long time. Others might be happy for me that I have this beautiful instrument, but they know I'm not showing off. I'm rewarding myself (for a lot of reasons - including surviving a heart attack and re-adjusting quite a lot of my life priorities, too). It was either a Steinway or a Corvette! Methinks the piano will be worth a lot more in 20 years - and will give year-round enjoyment rather than warm weather only smiles! And as far as location choices, this piano just has to go in this location.

The more I think about this, the more I am inclined to get a folding room divider/screen that will have the greatest effect on blocking heat and the UH/IR rays that will attack my baby. If it doesn't cost an arm & leg, I may do the 3M film too. I am grateful for the many helpful responses here - now I just have to find a nice screen that my better half will be happy with too!

Doug

Last edited by NFexec; 09/01/11 05:22 PM.

Anyone know about the 1920's "Mighty Wurlitzer" theatre pipe organs? Click here: www.wrtos.org or here: www.atos.org
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #1744709 09/01/11 05:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 348
B
Brent B Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
B
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 348
Originally Posted by NFexec

Hi Brent,

No - I have not yet gone to the factory. The "B" WILL be in that spot in about a month. I travel to NYC on 9/14. I'll definitely report about my experience!


Very exciting! Can't wait to hear about it and see pictures (will they let you take pictures?).

Originally Posted by NFexec

It was either a Steinway or a Corvette!

You made the right choice!


As for the 3M window film, my wife and I had this applied to the windows in our family room. Be careful with the level of tint that you choose. I kind of wish we had gone a shade or two lighter.

Brent

Last edited by Brent B; 09/01/11 05:36 PM.

Estonia 190
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: Brent B] #1744734 09/01/11 06:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 111
N
NFexec Offline OP
Full Member
OP Offline
Full Member
N
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by Brent B


Very exciting! Can't wait to hear about it and see pictures (will they let you take pictures?).

I can take whatever still or video shots of the selection room I want. Factory pics might be restricted, but from what I've heard, I think I can get at least a couple. We shall see!

Doug


Anyone know about the 1920's "Mighty Wurlitzer" theatre pipe organs? Click here: www.wrtos.org or here: www.atos.org
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: bessel] #1744999 09/02/11 09:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Sparky McBiff Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,112
Originally Posted by bessel


I just did some quick googling, and it appears that you can get films that block 30-80% or so of the sun's "heat" (infrared) while at the same time blocking almost all (say 99%) of the UV. Example:
http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/...un_Control_Window_Films/Prestige_Series/

I think modern E-glass windows have similar properties. I had a window installer come demo a window with E-glass vs regular, and the difference in how much heat you could feel through it (with a bright floodlight on the other side) was remarkable.

You can also get films that block the UV and don't block the infrared much at all, so you'd have to be careful.


Some good info, thanks bessel.

Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #2847834 05/13/19 03:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 118
J
Jt2nd Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 118
Well after surveying the various piano in window themes and dates of the topics which seem to be in a higgledy piggledy order I may as well just take a stab at this one . Yesterday I was reading about positioning a piano --grand or Upright in music room .Observant readers may have noticed I play an Upright , hence the Capital letter .
The best site to advise about positioning a piano in whatever room you have does not mention placing the piano anywhere near a window .(Don`t forget draughty windows ).
See Acoustic and digital Piano Buyer -----How to make a Piano Room Sound Grand by Lewis Lipnick . This article is an education and you may need a notebook and tape measure to derive the most benefit from it .
The object of placing the piano accurately in a room is to get it to sound it`s best .Forget the neighbours (how many times will they be impressed anyway ), or resale price in 50 years .Put the thing where it will work best . It`s not a pot full of flowers . It`s for the sound , not the appearance .
If you have just bought a house with a Piano in the middle of a large window facing South you may be lucky and live in Australia . Otherwise It`s vertical blinds all round . (Question to an esatate agent--"Is it South Facing?" Answer --"It is in the morning ".)
Definitely check out that Piano Room article .

Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #2847862 05/13/19 05:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,057
AaronSF Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,057
Screens might be a good solution, and attractive, too. Here's what I did in a similar situation.

My 7-foot August Förster is in a 500-sq-ft room with a wall of windows facing southwest. The windows give out onto beautiful mountain scenery. However, the room gets quite hot in the summer (it's pretty great in winter!) I have lined drapes along this entire window wall as well as sun screening shades behind the drapes that filter out all but 15% of the light. That means I can close just the screens, just the drapes, or both...depending on the time of year.

The windows are double pane with argon (or some such gas) between the panes, so they are already filtering out a lot of the UV. Still with all that, I had to apply heat (IR) repelling film to the glass to get the room temp down in the summer. The film is Gila Heat Control Platinum. It is supposed to reduce UV by 97% and IR by 70%, and it's working well.

Even with all this...when the sun gets into position where the light falls directly on my piano, I immediately close the drapes on that section of the windows to offer my piano maximum protection. Since the UV is all but eliminated, I worry more about the heat causing the soundboard and bridges to swell when the light is directly on the piano, which causes tuning problems.

I would also note that the piano has a Dampp Chaser system keeping the soundboard at about 42% relative humidity, as well as a room humidifier keeping the immediate environment around the piano at 35%-45%. Plus I have a felt wool string cover that I put over the strings and tuning pins after every practice session (from Dawson String Covers).

I'm a little obsessive about my piano I guess!


August Förster 215
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #2847899 05/13/19 07:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
R
RogerRL Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
R
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 64
I bought UV film from Amazon. It has a sticky surface, and you are supposed to peel away the protective layer. When you do that it immediately and catastrophically sticks to itself. You apparently need helpers and experience to apply it f. Or do you?

I just sprayed the window with water so it was uniformly wet, and put the film on the window without removing the protective layer that isolates the sticky part. Use a squeegee to remove any bubbles. Water dries eventually and the film stays on the window.

With this I can still see out of the windows fine, but the surface of the piano in full sunlight is as cool as the piano not in sunlight, indicating the vast majority of the UV is filtered out.

From the outside the windows now have a mirrored look during the day.


Shigaru Kawai SK-2, Kawai MP11SE
Re: Protecting Piano Finish From Sunlight [Re: NFexec] #2848146 05/14/19 04:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 62
J
Jack Knuckle Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
J
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 62
I found the film thing very confusing with so many different types. In the end I got a company to visit my house to explain what product would work best. The 3M film was several times more expensive than other brands and seems its main advantage is cutting out around half the heat without much reduction in light through. But I decided that wasn't good enough.

Another constraint is that the windows I needed to cover are double glazed, and there are films that can applied to the outside and films that can go on the inside. But to prevent damage to double glazed windows I was advised I couldn't reduce too much heat if I put the film inside (as it would reflect heat into the inside cavity of the window.

Final constraint was that the really dark films offer a range of tints, gold and silver being the most effective at keeping out heart, but they looked to me to be quite unsightly.

The perfect compromise was a dark grey or graphite-coloured film. Whilst it cuts out around 80% of light and heat, the human eye is very insensitive to light above a certain amount and as the window in front of my piano is already in a dark corner of the room, you would be hard pressed to tell there was a tinted film when looking from inside out as it just makes things look a bit more overcast. Conversely, during the daytime when looking into the house, rooms generally appear dark grey inside (especially against the white painted brickwork of my house) so having one window that is slightly darker grey is barely noticably darker.

When the sun is shining directly onto the piano, it is about 0.4 degrees C hotter at the bass end (which is close to the window) than the keyboard end (which sticks out into the room). Whether that makes much difference I don't know but I do know that the temperature of the room changes by about 1.5 degrees C over 24 hours.

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our January 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
Free Piano Newsletter
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Alicia Keys - Moonlight Sonata
by Pathetique1 - 02/25/20 03:09 AM
Int/Midi button on Kawai MP11
by giu - 02/25/20 02:56 AM
New bass strings sound hollow
by Emery Wang - 02/25/20 01:01 AM
About Yamaha cx
by Fer15 - 02/24/20 11:48 PM
grades of pieces
by Kaori Miyamoto - 02/24/20 05:40 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics197,177
Posts2,929,711
Members96,104
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3