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Kawai KG1E #2847823
05/13/19 04:08 PM
05/13/19 04:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Offline OP
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Hi everyone,

Just looking for an opinion of a decent asking price for a 1989 KG1E in stunning mahogany high gloss. It's a gorgeous piano, 5'4", and I like the action very much. It's in great shape, honestly looks close to excellent condition, hammers are lightly used, action is smooth and even, no marks on the case. Definitely a 1989, I checked the serial number. I'm in western NY. Just curious what a good asking price might be as it seems overpriced at $8400, but I have no idea how much the mahogany finish adds to the original price when new. I've read that the E designation means it was made a bit brighter than the previous D. Do any of the Kawai dealers here know if anything else is different? What action is this? I'm not sure when the Millenium action came into being, but this one is really smooth and lighter than other KGs I've played.

Thanks for any info!


Lisa

Currently working on Bach 2 part inventions, Satie Gnossiennes, and some Keith Snell Level 5 stuffs, lol. smile
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
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Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2847844
05/13/19 05:25 PM
05/13/19 05:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,162
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Offline
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,162
New Hampshire
Even though the KG series of pianos was quite good, I would say that it is significantly overpriced for today's market. Many people can't stand the idea of "losing money" on their piano "investment".

Have you talked with the seller? It can be instructive to find out just how they arrived at the price. Some are simply ignorant, whereas some are arrogant. Try to find out.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2847847
05/13/19 05:33 PM
05/13/19 05:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Offline OP
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ebonykawai  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2015
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Niagara Falls NY
It's being sold by a piano rebuilder, but it was a trade-in, it wasn't rebuilt by this shop. They do tend to be kind of higher in their pricing of their used pianos. I was thinking of trading in my upright, but it wouldn't be worth it at this price point.


Lisa

Currently working on Bach 2 part inventions, Satie Gnossiennes, and some Keith Snell Level 5 stuffs, lol. smile
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2847866
05/13/19 06:16 PM
05/13/19 06:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,392
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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I agree with Peter, ebonykawai, the price seems unreasonably high to me. Though the KG series were great pianos, it is an older, discontinued model. If the seller is in the piano business, he/she likely knows the market and is out to make as much profit as they can possibly make. That is not a criticism, it is just an opinion.

And, you are right, at that price for the KG1, you'd be pretty much giving away your upright if you traded. But that is how it works in the piano sales business, I suppose.

I have an older Howard/Kawai 550 from 1969 (same as Kawai KG2) that I like a lot. It has a very nice tone, though it could use some new bass strings due to age alone. I've promised to give it to my 15 year old granddaughter, whenever my son can make room for it in his house. The Howard/Kawai 550 (5'10") was in excellent condition and rarely played by the original owner I purchased it from. Granted, it is an older model, but still in fantastic condition.

Maybe you can negotiate a good bit on the price/trade if you really like the piano.

Good luck!!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2847868
05/13/19 06:20 PM
05/13/19 06:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Offline OP
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ebonykawai  Offline OP
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Niagara Falls NY
Agreed, Rick! I can't see doing anything at that price, though it's a lovely piano and SO beautiful. At that price, I doubt very much that I could negotiate anything reasonable. Kind of like that Kawai 350 that had a huge pricetag at the other local shop. They closed, BTW. Last month. I wasn't very surprised.


Lisa

Currently working on Bach 2 part inventions, Satie Gnossiennes, and some Keith Snell Level 5 stuffs, lol. smile
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2847872
05/13/19 06:25 PM
05/13/19 06:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 174
USA
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Lotus1 Offline
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USA
Lisa, I agree with Peter and Rick that it is severely overpriced. I rejected KG1s at half that price while looking for a piano recently. They may not have been in as great a condition, but were well maintained.

The Millennium III action was phased in beginning in 2004. It is a carbon-infused version of the previous all-ABS Styran action, which had a carbon jack, that was introduced in 1996. A 1989 piano would have some ABS Styran parts, but not all, and probably a carbon jack.

A unique finish like mahogany limits the set of potential buyers, as most prefer polished ebony. So while it would have been more expensive than PE originally, you should not pay a premium.

Remember, it is still a 30-year old piano. You can buy a new Kawai grand for less than $10,000 and a quality new Chinese-made grand for even less than that.

I came very close to buying a new grand, when a used Kawai gem still under warranty dropped into my lap at an excellent price. The private seller listed the piano at double ($2,000) what a dealer offered over the phone ($1,000), which should give you a sense for what dealer markups* can be.

Now, all this sounds very negative, but you may have found your gem if you can get it for a reasonable price. You obviously love the action and the appearance, and that means a lot. Best wishes, Lotus

*This is not meant to disparage professionals who sell used pianos, either as their main business or as a side line. One explained to me that he gets many calls from people wanting to sell their pianos, and he does not have the time, capital or space in his shop to consider "flipping" one, unless the profit margin is substantial.

Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2847887
05/13/19 07:31 PM
05/13/19 07:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,392
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by Lotus1
I came very close to buying a new grand, when a used Kawai gem still under warranty dropped into my lap at an excellent price. The private seller listed the piano at double ($2,000) what a dealer offered over the phone ($1,000), which should give you a sense for what dealer markups* can be.

I don't usually like to divulge what I paid for my pianos (for various reasons:-) but in this case I'll make an exception, since I've given the Howard/Kawai 550 to my beautiful 15 year old granddaughter. I paid $1500 for it and felt like it was a real bargain, which it was.

But bargain prices on nice grand/baby grand pianos in good condition are not necessarily plentiful and you have to look hard or wait for them to come along.

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2847890
05/13/19 07:44 PM
05/13/19 07:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,392
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Georgia, USA
Edit time had expired in my last post but here is a pic of the Howard/Kawai 550. It sounds and plays as good as it looks...

[Linked Image]


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2847912
05/13/19 09:05 PM
05/13/19 09:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
ebonykawai  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
Thanks, everyone! I don't know why it's so challening to find a nice used grand here. Even Craigslist pianos are vastly overpriced. Many never sell, but owners never want to bargain either. It's weird! I do enjoy the shop where this piano is. I bought my very piano from them 25 years ago! That was just a little Kimble upright, but it was very endearing to me to, as I'd wanted to play since childhood, but my parents insisted I play the violin instead (it was basically free; school lessons, not that I regret it in any way, but...it wasn't piano).

Anyway, yeah, it's too bad. What do you even think a reasonable offer would be? I don't want to insult them in any way. Thanks for the great input, everyone! 😊❤️


Lisa

Currently working on Bach 2 part inventions, Satie Gnossiennes, and some Keith Snell Level 5 stuffs, lol. smile
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2847916
05/13/19 09:42 PM
05/13/19 09:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,392
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Thanks, everyone! I don't know why it's so challening to find a nice used grand here. Even Craigslist pianos are vastly overpriced. Many never sell, but owners never want to bargain either. It's weird! I do enjoy the shop where this piano is. I bought my very piano from them 25 years ago! That was just a little Kimble upright, but it was very endearing to me to, as I'd wanted to play since childhood, but my parents insisted I play the violin instead (it was basically free; school lessons, not that I regret it in any way, but...it wasn't piano).

Anyway, yeah, it's too bad. What do you even think a reasonable offer would be? I don't want to insult them in any way. Thanks for the great input, everyone! 😊❤️

Ebonykawai, I'm sure location has a lot to do with used piano prices. And, I'm certainly no kind of authority on the subject. But I've seen the Kawai KG1s and 2s for sale in my area anywhere from $3K to $6K. It sounds like you really like the KG1E and the dealer who has it for sale. If I were you I don't think it would be insulting to offer them half their asking price or $4.5K cash; maybe something different if you are trading your Kawai upright. Worse they could say is no (right?:-). To me that would still be a price on the high end, but there are certainly variables that play a role in the pricing equation.

On the other hand, if you really like the piano and want it and can afford it, $8.9K would not be too high a price to pay. smile

Good luck!

Rick



Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848009
05/14/19 08:16 AM
05/14/19 08:16 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,373
Philadelphia/South Jersey
Rich Galassini Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 11,373
Philadelphia/South Jersey
I would like to inject a little balance here. If this piano is at a rebuilder then they may have put a significant amount of work into this piano for resale.

Of course, this would depend on their expectation of quality for anything they sell. I can tell you that Cunningham Piano Company recently had a KG-2E that we installed new tuning pins, new Heller bass strings, new Roslau treble strings, refinished and redressed the frame, installed new dampers, new damper guide rail bushings, rebushed and reconditioned the keys, regulated the action, and touched up and buffed the finish. The piano was in nice shape for its age when we got it but we wanted it to perform at its best. It went out the door with a 10 year warranty. We sold this piano for way more than what these people are asking and I feel it was a significant value.

We really have too little information on this and assuming the piano is being sold "as-is" is likely a mistake.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila, Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct line
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848021
05/14/19 08:45 AM
05/14/19 08:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Offline OP
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ebonykawai  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
Rich, it was a trade in. The shop didn't do any work on it, except maybe tuning it. They told me it was a trade in. An elderly couple traded it for a Yamaha U1 because they were moving to a retirement home. That's why it's in such great shape. They were the sole owners.


Lisa

Currently working on Bach 2 part inventions, Satie Gnossiennes, and some Keith Snell Level 5 stuffs, lol. smile
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848035
05/14/19 09:38 AM
05/14/19 09:38 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,392
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Georgia, USA
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Rich, it was a trade in. The shop didn't do any work on it, except maybe tuning it. They told me it was a trade in. An elderly couple traded it for a Yamaha U1 because they were moving to a retirement home. That's why it's in such great shape. They were the sole owners.

Well, knowing the history of a piano is worth something, it seems to me. smile

Why not have a talk with the dealer and see what you can work out, if you really like the KG1E, which I think you do. smile

Wishing you all the best, ebonykawai!

Rick


Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848044
05/14/19 10:42 AM
05/14/19 10:42 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 254
Toronto, Canada
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WeakLeftHand Offline
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Toronto, Canada
I was curious and did a quick Google search and found a 1989 KG1E in polished ebony sold. Asking was $11,750. Don’t know when or for how much it was actually sold for.

https://livingpianos.com/pianos/kawai-parlor-grand-piano-kg1e-1937858/

Here’s another one:

http://www.besbrodepianos.com/piano-sale/kawai-KG1E-grand-piano-1.htm

I think there are others on a Google search that could give you an idea of asking prices.

The prices are all over the place:

https://stilwellpianos.com/products/kawai-baby-grand-piano-model-kg-1e

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 05/14/19 10:48 AM.
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848075
05/14/19 12:34 PM
05/14/19 12:34 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 12,392
Georgia, USA
Rickster Offline
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Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I think there are others on a Google search that could give you an idea of asking prices.

The prices are all over the place:

https://stilwellpianos.com/products/kawai-baby-grand-piano-model-kg-1e

This is a very nice looking Kawai KG1E and the price seems more reasonable.

Again, this is not a criticism, but piano dealers are in business to make a profit, and as much as they can. It's just business, I suppose. But pianos are subject to market/economic forces like supply and demand as well as competition between dealers just like any other product/commodity.

Also, what someone may be looking for is not always available for sale on the private seller market at any given time.

Just a few thoughts...

Rick



Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: WeakLeftHand] #2848077
05/14/19 12:41 PM
05/14/19 12:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
ebonykawai  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2015
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Niagara Falls NY
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I was curious and did a quick Google search and found a 1989 KG1E in polished ebony sold. Asking was $11,750. Don’t know when or for how much it was actually sold for.

https://livingpianos.com/pianos/kawai-parlor-grand-piano-kg1e-1937858/

Here’s another one:

http://www.besbrodepianos.com/piano-sale/kawai-KG1E-grand-piano-1.htm

I think there are others on a Google search that could give you an idea of asking prices.

The prices are all over the place:

https://stilwellpianos.com/products/kawai-baby-grand-piano-model-kg-1e


Most of the KG1s listed on EBay are in the $5000 range. At least they are listed at that price. Haven't looked yet to see if any actually sold at those list prices. People can ask what they want, it doesn't mean anyone will buy, though.


Lisa

Currently working on Bach 2 part inventions, Satie Gnossiennes, and some Keith Snell Level 5 stuffs, lol. smile
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848089
05/14/19 01:47 PM
05/14/19 01:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 254
Toronto, Canada
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WeakLeftHand Offline
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WeakLeftHand  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2019
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Toronto, Canada
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I was curious and did a quick Google search and found a 1989 KG1E in polished ebony sold. Asking was $11,750. Don’t know when or for how much it was actually sold for.

https://livingpianos.com/pianos/kawai-parlor-grand-piano-kg1e-1937858/

Here’s another one:

http://www.besbrodepianos.com/piano-sale/kawai-KG1E-grand-piano-1.htm

I think there are others on a Google search that could give you an idea of asking prices.

The prices are all over the place:

https://stilwellpianos.com/products/kawai-baby-grand-piano-model-kg-1e


Most of the KG1s listed on EBay are in the $5000 range. At least they are listed at that price. Haven't looked yet to see if any actually sold at those list prices. People can ask what they want, it doesn't mean anyone will buy, though.


If they haven’t changed it, eBay has a reverse search type function where you can search for “sold” prices. Several years ago, I was into buying vintage toys and I used the reverse search to see how much people actually paid for certain items, so I could bid strategically.

Last edited by WeakLeftHand; 05/14/19 01:48 PM.
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: WeakLeftHand] #2848093
05/14/19 02:00 PM
05/14/19 02:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
ebonykawai  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
Originally Posted by ebonykawai
Originally Posted by WeakLeftHand
I was curious and did a quick Google search and found a 1989 KG1E in polished ebony sold. Asking was $11,750. Don’t know when or for how much it was actually sold for.

https://livingpianos.com/pianos/kawai-parlor-grand-piano-kg1e-1937858/

Here’s another one:

http://www.besbrodepianos.com/piano-sale/kawai-KG1E-grand-piano-1.htm

I think there are others on a Google search that could give you an idea of asking prices.

The prices are all over the place:

https://stilwellpianos.com/products/kawai-baby-grand-piano-model-kg-1e


Most of the KG1s listed on EBay are in the $5000 range. At least they are listed at that price. Haven't looked yet to see if any actually sold at those list prices. People can ask what they want, it doesn't mean anyone will buy, though.


If they haven’t changed it, eBay has a reverse search type function where you can search for “sold” prices. Several years ago, I was into buying vintage toys and I used the reverse search to see how much people actually paid for certain items, so I could bid strategically.


Yep, just did that now that I'm home (I hate doing stuff on my dinky phone, LOL). The closest I found was a KG3C for $1700 and a couple other Kawai grands that sold at "best offer accepted" (don't know what they went for, but obviously less than asking price.)


Lisa

Currently working on Bach 2 part inventions, Satie Gnossiennes, and some Keith Snell Level 5 stuffs, lol. smile
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848099
05/14/19 02:19 PM
05/14/19 02:19 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
ebonykawai Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
ebonykawai  Offline OP
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 883
Niagara Falls NY
Thanks so much for all the input, everyone! I'll have to pass on this, just because I can't see any possible negotiation that would work. This starting price is just too high, and my 1 year old upright is probably worth about what this 30 year old grand is worth, so it's just a no-go from the start, unfortunately. A fair trade would be impossible.

Ah well, I've been looking for the right grand for about 10 years now. Some day it will come....


Lisa

Currently working on Bach 2 part inventions, Satie Gnossiennes, and some Keith Snell Level 5 stuffs, lol. smile
Kawai UST-9, Yamaha CLP565GP, Kawai KDP110

"Sometimes I can only groan, and suffer, and pour out my despair at the piano!" - Frederic Chopin
Re: Kawai KG1E [Re: ebonykawai] #2848101
05/14/19 02:31 PM
05/14/19 02:31 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,741
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
3000 Post Club Member
PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,741
Atlanta, GA
We don't sell as many of the KG-1's, but we do see more of the KG-2's. The KG-2's of similar age, when truly pristine, generally sell for above your dealer's asking price. Looking through the few KG-1's of similar age, I saw one sold above (newer) and one below (1987) the asking price in the last 5 years.

There are a ton of average or below average ones on the market, and the KG models from that time were noticeably improved over the ones that are just slightly older. No harm in getting the best deal you can, but I do see harm in taking limited info from scattered private sales to try to determine "fair" pricing. Many private sales include pianos that were rejected by dealers, vastly skewing the numbers.

For useful comparison's sake, the relative quality level of the original build in 1989 is a predecessor to the current GX-1. While not as good, it was better than the GE-series that existed when new. Today, Kawai's second tier line is the GL line. To make parallels, the 1989 KG-1 (when original) has a build quality somewhere between the GX-1 and the GL30. Out of curiosity, how do you feel that instrument compares with a new GL30?


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
Bösendorfer, Estonia, Seiler, Grotrian, Hailun
Pre-Owned: Yamaha, Kawai, Steinway & other fine pianos
Full Restoration Shop
www.PianoWorks.com
www.youtube.com/PianoWorksAtlanta
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