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Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help #2846979
05/10/19 08:44 AM
05/10/19 08:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
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Jordan
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Hi everyone. I'm working on this etude and it's going okay, but I ran into some trouble with regards to fingering in a couple of passages towards the end. I'll be referring to the measure numbers on this link for your convenience.

1) Measures 103 and 105 of the left hand. I didn't work on this for long but I can't find something that's comfortable and that would work at tempo.

2) Measures 107-109, any suggested fingering for the RH thirds passages? In measure 107, I tried using 45 on DF then starting at the next third I'm using 35 2 45 1 35. I have no idea how this works at tempo but I can't imagine it being really comfortable or reliable.

3) I know it's stupid and I haven't really experimented much, but any ideas on measure 113?

Bonus points if you can give me the fingering you'd use for the first 4 semiquavers of measures 102, 104, and 106. I'm using 5212, 5212, and 5121 respectively.

Appreciate all the help in advance!

By the way, practicing this piece on an upright is a killer. You have to be really really quick with your fingers or those repeated notes won't sound eek

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Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847077
05/10/19 12:53 PM
05/10/19 12:53 PM
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jon-nyc Offline
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I don't play the piece but I have the new Henle edition with Hamelin's fingerings. It doesn't answer all your questions but it should help:

[Linked Image]



I didn't include m113 as he has no markings there.


If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?
Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847309
05/11/19 09:30 AM
05/11/19 09:30 AM
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Jordan
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Thank you jon for that image!

Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847437
05/11/19 10:02 PM
05/11/19 10:02 PM
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MikeN Offline
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Careful though: Hamelin Interview

About half way through, Hamelin mentions how his input on fingerings is a bit limited in what he can write compared to what he'd actually do.

Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847563
05/12/19 02:16 PM
05/12/19 02:16 PM
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I felt the fingering recommendations were sparse, if I'm being honest. I guess because I can (should?) take more time on the thirds that my slightly uncomfortable fingering would work at that tempo. I enjoyed reading that interview and I went to watch more Hamelin videos, and as usual I'm astonished by this man's technical facility, it's really quite humbling.

Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847716
05/13/19 10:25 AM
05/13/19 10:25 AM
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Jordan
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Well since we're on the topic of Rach etudes, anyone wants to discuss them? I'm not intimately familiar with all of them but my favorites definitely include this one and op39/2,3,5,8 as well as op.33/4 (d minor),

Funnily enough this is my first Rach etude but I love it so I figured why wait. I'm finding it really fun to practice. Some passages require a lot of acrobatic maneuvering to get right, and there are a lot of passages with the hands over each other which could cause some problems when you first start working on it. The presto is a beast but a lot of fun to practice, a lot of times I have to make sure I'm not getting too excited and rush it because there's a lot of coordination going on between wrist/arm movements and finger movements, IMO. I still don't know how this whole piece is going to turn out at tempo though but so far it's very enjoyable.

Any experiences/thoughts you'd like to share on these etudes?

Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847724
05/13/19 10:48 AM
05/13/19 10:48 AM
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BruceD Offline
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I have played only two of the easier Etudes: the G minor, Op. 33, No. 8 and the posthumously published C minor, Op. 33, No. 3

This latter doesn't appear in some earlier editions and is (I think) published as an appendix in the new Henle edition fingered by Hamelin. My edition (MCA Music, ed. Mirovitch, dated 1950 and indicated as "the first complete edition") publishes this Etude "for the first time."
One benefits from a piano with a good treble sustain in this Etude. The meno mosso section in C major starting at measure 18 has a theme in the upper register of the keyboard over a beautifully rich and sonorous C major broken chord accompaniment in both hands. If that sustain is not there, the melody dies too soon. A nice warm bass helps, too, with those deep C's in the left hand. Such a gorgeous work where one "almost needs" a full concert grand to get the most out of it!

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847749
05/13/19 12:05 PM
05/13/19 12:05 PM
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I enjoy the Rach etudes quite a bit and even prefer them as a set over the more famous Chopin etudes. Currently my absolute favorites are Op 39 No 2 and Op 39 No 8, the former of which I've put on Youtube and the latter of which I'm currently working on now. I think they showcase how expressive and emotional his music can be even in the absence of "big tunes" like Rach 2, Symphony No 2, etc.


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Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847798
05/13/19 02:26 PM
05/13/19 02:26 PM
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Wow, Rachmaster, I just listened to your 39/2. That's just fantastic playing.


If you don't talk to your children about equal temperment, who will?
Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: rach3master] #2847832
05/13/19 04:26 PM
05/13/19 04:26 PM
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Jordan
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Originally Posted by BruceD
the G minor, Op. 33, No. 8


I love that one!

Originally Posted by rach3master
Currently my absolute favorites are Op 39 No 2 and Op 39 No 8


I really love the d minor! I feel like it is very underrated. I dabbled with it for a couple of days before settling on no.6, but my next Rach etude will definitely be 39/8. I just love all the harmonies and I feel like the writing is typical lush, beautiful Rachmaninoff. It's also a nice exercise for double notes. From the 2 pages I tried, the RH wasn't as difficult as I expected it to be, but I assume this depends a lot on the tempo you choose to play this at. I really like Volodos's version on youtube, check it out if you haven't already. I dislike fast performances for this particular work, to be honest. As far as technicalities go, there was this ascending passage somewhere in the 2nd - 3rd page that repeats in different keys that I felt would be difficult to find a good fingering for, but because of how good this piece sounds I fail to see how anyone would get bored working on it.

I echo jon's comments on your playing, and I urge you to post a recording of the 39/8 when you're done with it because your playing is wonderful smile

Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847836
05/13/19 04:49 PM
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Thanks for the kind words. I also agree that Volodos' 39/8 is probably the best version I've ever heard of that piece. In fact, I'm actively trying to avoid listening to it too much so I don't just end up copying his interpretation.

Technically speaking, it's really not bad at all. Even though the entire piece consists of double notes, they aren't of the "fast" variety that give most pianists trouble. Probably the toughest part technically for me seems to be the scherzo section where the main theme returns but in all staccato chords and 9th stretches while the left hand does some leaping. But for the most part it fits under the hand pretty nicely.

And also props for undertaking 39/6 as your Rach etude. My teacher once had to learn all of Op 39 in a month for a performance and he singled out some of the 39/6 chromatic chords in the right hand as some of the toughest passages he had to get under his fingers.

Last edited by rach3master; 05/13/19 04:55 PM.

Youtube piano recordings (classical music/video games/anime): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCh9N3Xirs86USDQXE1WiwXg
Kawai Novus NV-10 / Yamaha Avantgrand N1 with Garritan CFX VST
Re: Rachmaninoff etude op.39/6 fingering help [Re: Pover] #2847954
05/14/19 12:56 AM
05/14/19 12:56 AM
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Jordan
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See, I purposefully didn't get into the scherzo section because I very intelligently put the piece down before trying that out - didn't want to find a reason not to learn it later hahaha.

And I'd say hold onto your props until I can actually play it! I don't wanna be a disappointment smile I''m getting into such an etude-heavy period lately, but I'm really enjoying it. Problem is, I can't stop! Next year I'm basically moving to another continent and 'starting' my career so the first few years of that I won't have time basically at all (80 hour weeks smile ), so I think the reason I'm going through all this repertoire is because I feel like I only have 1 proper year of piano left before I get to play it seriously in like, what, 8 years or something. But by doing this I'm finding out that it's actually amazing what can happen if you actually try to work on a piece before deciding that it's absolutely inappropriate.


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