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Clair De Lune #2847595
05/12/19 05:32 PM
05/12/19 05:32 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,806
Florida
cmb13 Offline OP
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My teacher has me starting on this beautiful piece. To tell the truth, I'm not sure I'm ready for it. In particular, the fast arpeggios are....well....fast! She has me learning certain measures, a few at a time, in various spots of the piece. I've been working at this for a few weeks now and surprisingly, they're coming together. In fact, I think I have covered about 30% of the piece and can get through these sections. I'm hoping the rest goes even faster, as the patterns are somewhat repetitive.

The sections I've covered up until now are:
M1-8 - part of the intro
M15-17.....hope to add up to 21 quickly
M29-36
M37-40
M66-73 ending (not that difficult but very beautiful)

Getting it up to speed, however, will be a different story. It's fairly long, and will require lots and lots of repetition. For now, I'm just working on getting fingering down, and playing it really slowly, possibly 50% of tempo.

Some interesting aspects of the piece:
The piece is in 9/8 time, and there are sixteenth notes in some areas, so one must count 1&...up to 9& which is 18 notes in some measures.

The key Db maj; I've played the Liszt Consolation 3, which is also in this key, so I'm okay with this.

The floating notes. Take the first bar, it starts on beat 2, which gives it an ethereal sound.

Just some initial comments.....


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune
Bach Inventions (in a not quite random order)

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847598
05/12/19 05:45 PM
05/12/19 05:45 PM
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Sheffield, UK
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Wow, sounds like you are doing well. It sounds like the direction your teacher provides is fantastic.

I understand completely your fear of am I up to tackling this yet, but the description of your progress says to me your teacher knows what she is talking about.

I am looking forward to you keeping us updated on your progress.


Mendelssohn Song without Words Op19,2 and 19,6, Jensen Sehnsucht Op8,5. Chopin Nocturne C# Minor. Schumann Hasche Mann from Kinderszenen Op15,3. https://soundcloud.com/sheffieldkevin
DP: Casio Celviano AP-470. HP: Superlux HD681 EVO
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847603
05/12/19 06:06 PM
05/12/19 06:06 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,267
Midwest USA
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A wonderful piece. Have a good time with it!

I will probably start on it this summer. My teacher suggested starting with picking some of the LH arpeggios and getting really comfortable with them. Meanwhile, I've started working on Jimbo's Lullaby. That piece has (to me) a somewhat awkward rhythm to it--like a lumbering elephant, I guess (no surprise).

Originally Posted by cmb13
....The piece is in 9/8 time, and there are sixteenth notes in some areas, so one must count 1&...up to 9& which is 18 notes in some measures.......
I've played a few pieces in 9/8 time, and my teacher had no trouble with me counting it 1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 2 & 3 & 1 & 2 & 3 &. Counting up to nine is HARD.


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In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847616
05/12/19 07:40 PM
05/12/19 07:40 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,804
Victoria, BC
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This piece presents several challenges, not the least of which is timing. It must have a languorous quality to the "A" section, yet it should never become static and stagnate; it has to keep moving but very gently.

While the piece is in 9/8 time, it should (eventually) be felt in a very gentle three beats to the bar. If one concentrates on counting to nine in each measure, there is a risk of losing the flow and the interpretation may becoming too "notey". I stress this because there are several measures where the three notes to the beat (triplets) become two notes to the beat (duplets), further complicated by the fact that some of these duplets are tied over the sixth beat, as in measure three, for example. This becomes a problem if you are counting nine to the bar when in measure three the F in the right hand comes halfway between beat five and six and the D-flat comes halfway between beats eight and nine. If you count three to the bar, then it's easier to feel three to the beat and then two to the beat.

A similar challenge arises in measures 19, 21, and 23, where the notation changes from nine to six to notes to the measure. Don't make the mistake that some do playing the measure as two groups of three (with an accent on the C octave in measure 19); it's still thee groups of two.

Starting at measure 37, one has to be careful to voice the melody clearly on beats 1, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9 (OK, so I'm counting in 9, now!). In measures 41 and 42 the fingering to get a legato line can be a bit awkward; I found it needed work but with the right fingering it does work.

In the un poco mosso section, the right hand has to sing above the left hand arpeggios, with the top voice in the right hand prominent. There are some bass lines that need to be gently brought out in measures 31, 32; 37 through 40, etc.

In the calmato at measure 43, the lower line in the right hand has to be heard as a rising voice, but it should not overpower the sustained line in the upper part of the right hand. That motif is echoed later in measures 47 and 48, an octave higher.

There's a lot going on in this piece, but it shouldn't sound like it! There's the challenge.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: BruceD] #2847617
05/12/19 07:45 PM
05/12/19 07:45 PM
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Victoria, BC
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Originally Posted by BruceD
[...]I stress this because there are several measures where the three notes to the beat (triplets) become two notes to the beat (duplets), further complicated by the fact that some of these duplets are tied over the sixth beat, as in measure three, for example. This becomes a problem if you are counting nine to the bar when in measure three the F in the right hand comes halfway between beat five and six and the D-flat comes halfway between beats eight and nine. If you count three to the bar, then it's easier to feel three to the beat and then two to the beat.
[...]


A good exercise to help master this change in flow, is to set the metronome to a comfortable tempo and play a scale, several octaves up and down, alternating between three notes to the beat and two notes to the beat. The alternating triplets and duplets should be absolutely even. One could vary this by playing the scales with two groups of three to the beat followed by two groups of two to the beat; two groups of three; two groups of two.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847623
05/12/19 08:15 PM
05/12/19 08:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 550
America
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I just learned this piece, I.m need to fine tune it , but this is hardest pieces I learned/ played thus far.

I found the hardest part to be when it goes into key if e, and the notes have to played consecutively like arrpegios but lots of shifts

I still need to work on some sections
Clair de lune

Though I just say it is very fun to play :)))!!

Last edited by Jitin; 05/12/19 08:15 PM.

Yamaha P155, Yamaha P515
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847627
05/12/19 08:57 PM
05/12/19 08:57 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,806
Florida
cmb13 Offline OP
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Thanks for the comments....it'll certainly pose challenges. I have worked on it by dividing the measures into three, mentally, but had not committed to this type of counting. I asked my teacher about this, and she thought this would be fine. Maybe I'll take this concept further.

Thanks for the detailed comments, Bruce, I'll have to study these comments further as I progress. Not tonight though...GOT is about to start!

Jilin, nice job no the piece. Seems you've got the notes and the tempo (although I think I'll never take it quite that fast....I like it a little slower which is good b/c I probably couldn't play it at that tempo if I tried). I agree, a little work to bring out the melody or rather soften the L hand will help, but you've got the music down. Just a little refinement.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune
Bach Inventions (in a not quite random order)

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847663
05/13/19 05:03 AM
05/13/19 05:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 118
Romania
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Mosotti Online content
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This is a very difficult piece, I don't think I'll attempt it in the next 5 years. It's a grade 8 or something piece yet for some reason it keeps popping up in "easy piano pieces" lists smile

Re: Clair De Lune [Re: Mosotti] #2847665
05/13/19 05:41 AM
05/13/19 05:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 583
Sheffield, UK
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Originally Posted by Mosotti
This is a very difficult piece, I don't think I'll attempt it in the next 5 years. It's a grade 8 or something piece yet for some reason it keeps popping up in "easy piano pieces" lists smile



I think there are a lot of simplified sheet music versions around. Wanting to play something I could recognize very soon after I started playing after a 40 year break was a very simplified version of Clair De Lune.

It was quite nice to be able to start doing that soon after I restarted. It is probably the only time I'll learn a simplified version of a piece of sheet music but it was worth it. But enough for me to decide to never criticise anyone else for deciding to learn a simplified version of a piece of music.


Mendelssohn Song without Words Op19,2 and 19,6, Jensen Sehnsucht Op8,5. Chopin Nocturne C# Minor. Schumann Hasche Mann from Kinderszenen Op15,3. https://soundcloud.com/sheffieldkevin
DP: Casio Celviano AP-470. HP: Superlux HD681 EVO
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: Mosotti] #2847686
05/13/19 08:23 AM
05/13/19 08:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 272
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Sidokar Offline
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Originally Posted by Mosotti
This is a very difficult piece, I don't think I'll attempt it in the next 5 years. It's a grade 8 or something piece yet for some reason it keeps popping up in "easy piano pieces" lists smile




It is classified as RCM Level 10 and level 10 by Magrath !

Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847699
05/13/19 09:26 AM
05/13/19 09:26 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,806
Florida
cmb13 Offline OP
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I’m not familiar w Magrath. Looked her up though. Does she have some sort of syllabus of her own?


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune
Bach Inventions (in a not quite random order)

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847709
05/13/19 10:00 AM
05/13/19 10:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,267
Midwest USA
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Originally Posted by cmb13
I’m not familiar w Magrath. Looked her up though. Does she have some sort of syllabus of her own?
It's this, I think.
The Pianist's Guide to Standard Teaching....


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In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847769
05/13/19 01:05 PM
05/13/19 01:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
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Originally Posted by cmb13
I’m not familiar w Magrath. Looked her up though. Does she have some sort of syllabus of her own?


Yes she referenced quite a few pieces from beginner to early advanced - grade 1 to 10 in the RCM terminology - starting with some baroque but essentially classic, romantic and some modern pieces too. It's convenient if you are looking to play something and dont know exactly if at your level.

Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847770
05/13/19 01:13 PM
05/13/19 01:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 157
Long Island, NY
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Good luck! I never learned this piece which is shocking given all the childhood piano lessons I had, lol. I tried sight reading it but when I get to the middle section, my timing falls apart.


~~~~~~~
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1. Brahms Intermezzo Op 118/2
2. Beethoven Sonata Op 2/1 (1st mvmnt)

Working on:
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3. Chopin Nocturne Op 48/1
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Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2847791
05/13/19 02:17 PM
05/13/19 02:17 PM
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Henle rates this piece as 5 (medium) out of 9. I'm not familiar with this system but it rates it as medium. It is very commonly played on reddit. I think it should be doable. For me I would find the main difficulty the busyness of the piece in places to make that sound light and effortless. Maybe I'd have to explore some Impressionist or Debussy music before attempting. Good luck.

Last edited by Moo :); 05/13/19 02:19 PM.
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: AssociateX] #2847829
05/13/19 04:16 PM
05/13/19 04:16 PM
Joined: May 2013
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Florida
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Originally Posted by AssociateX
Good luck! I never learned this piece which is shocking given all the childhood piano lessons I had, lol. I tried sight reading it but when I get to the middle section, my timing falls apart.


Yea...sight reading this piece is not going to happen for me!!


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune
Bach Inventions (in a not quite random order)

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: Moo :)] #2847830
05/13/19 04:19 PM
05/13/19 04:19 PM
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Florida
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Originally Posted by Moo :)
Henle rates this piece as 5 (medium) out of 9. I'm not familiar with this system but it rates it as medium. It is very commonly played on reddit. I think it should be doable. For me I would find the main difficulty the busyness of the piece in places to make that sound light and effortless. Maybe I'd have to explore some Impressionist or Debussy music before attempting. Good luck.

I think you’re 100% right - trying to make the fast arpeggios light and airy while bring out the melody above them may prove to be the hardest part. That and the sheer speed and volume of those 16th notes.

I have learned The Girl with the Flaxen Hair and some Satie so maybe that will help.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune
Bach Inventions (in a not quite random order)

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Clair De Lune [Re: Jitin] #2847879
05/13/19 07:01 PM
05/13/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
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Liverpool, NY
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Originally Posted by Jitin
I just learned this piece, I.m need to fine tune it , but this is hardest pieces I learned/ played thus far.

I found the hardest part to be when it goes into key if e, and the notes have to played consecutively like arrpegios but lots of shifts

I still need to work on some sections
Clair de lune

Though I just say it is very fun to play :)))!!

Well Done!!!

I have a beginner version of this, though it's only two pages and certainly doesn't have all of those great runs in it. Something to work towards, however!

Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2848270
05/15/19 01:33 AM
05/15/19 01:33 AM
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Needless to say, a most beautiful and superb selection. It is on my bucket list as well. Interestingly enough I have noted a few relative beginners claiming to tackle the piece here and there, and have generally assumed they were in way over their head, but the simplified arrangements do make sense..

Re: Clair De Lune [Re: cmb13] #2869303
07/14/19 05:14 PM
07/14/19 05:14 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,806
Florida
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QUESTION -
M49-50 Is the high Eb held or replayed on beat 7 of M49? M1 of 50? It looks to me like it’s tied throughout. Just want to make sure I learn that correctly. It’s a really long tie....


Edit - I think I have my answer.

Thanks, Tiffany! It’s at around 3:30



Last edited by cmb13; 07/14/19 05:26 PM.

Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune
Bach Inventions (in a not quite random order)

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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