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Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? #2847200 05/10/19 07:05 PM
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swampwiz Offline OP
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It looks like the tariffs are being fully implemented. It would seem that this would make all the Chinese pianos cost a lot more, thereby increasing the value of used pianos.

On a side note, I wonder if Brodmann & Kayserberg can handle having to cost so much more in the American market.

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Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847210 05/10/19 07:50 PM
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Likely to cause inflation and raise most consumer items either way.

Old pianos only getting both older and fewer too.

Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847219 05/10/19 09:04 PM
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Last edited by Ken Knapp; 05/10/19 11:30 PM. Reason: Remove POLITICAL comment.
Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: BigIslandGuy] #2847224 05/10/19 09:16 PM
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Last edited by Ken Knapp; 05/10/19 11:30 PM. Reason: Remove POLITICAL comment.

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Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847228 05/10/19 09:27 PM
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Pianos don't all come from China......Japan and Indonesia are still big players, in fact the number of pianos from Japan has been increasing.




Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: BigIslandGuy] #2847231 05/10/19 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BigIslandGuy
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Originally Posted by LarryK
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Tsk tsk. No politics on PW wink

Last edited by Ken Knapp; 05/10/19 11:31 PM. Reason: Right. No political comments.

across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
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"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2847244 05/10/19 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Tsk tsk. No politics on PW wink

thumb



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
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Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2847248 05/11/19 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by BigIslandGuy
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Originally Posted by LarryK
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Tsk tsk. No politics on PW wink

And I agree, this really is not the place for it. My brain said "Just keep your mouth shut" but my hands kept typing. The devil made me do it! smile

Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847260 05/11/19 01:52 AM
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My apologies, I was only illustrating a grammatical point. grin

Someone said, you can have friends or you can correct grammar mistakes, but not both.

I think those of us who don’t own a Steinway B have too few pianos in our lives.

Last edited by LarryK; 05/11/19 01:54 AM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847266 05/11/19 03:09 AM
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Is it the place of manufacture or where the Head Office is based which will have an effect?

Thinking of Essex - made in China, but for a USA company.

Or Parsons Music in Hong Kong part owning KAWAI - which makes Bostons for a USA company in Japan - but also part owns GROTRIAN which manufactures in Germany and China.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: backto_study_piano] #2847267 05/11/19 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by backto_study_piano
Is it the place of manufacture or where the Head Office is based which will have an effect?

Only the place of manufacturing matters. Once anything (parts or assembled products) crosses a border, tariffs are due.


Yamaha P-515 | Kawai ES100 | Steinberg UR22 | Sony MDR-7506
Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847310 05/11/19 08:31 AM
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Thank you Ken Knapp! I come to Piano World to escape politics!


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Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847317 05/11/19 09:33 AM
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BigIslandGuy and LarryK, don't feel badly about having your comments deleted in this thread by a moderator. Some of my comments (which were similar to yours) were deleted by a moderator several months ago in a thread with the exact same title/subject regarding trade tariffs, Chinese imports and pianos. I PM'd the moderator and asked why my comments were deleted. He said they were political. I said the title of the tread in itself is political. He said the issue can be discussed without getting political. Really? Perhaps, but I don't think so...

This entire thread is political in most any context you can slant it in my view and should be removed. Can the subject of "Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values?" be discussed without alluding to the current political climate or policies in some form or fashion? Maybe it can, but I don't think so...

But proceed on... the mods will need to watch this thread like a hawk because politics will rear its ugly head here again, whether directly or indirectly. But it is up to them to decide whose comments cross the political divide and whose do not...

By-the-way, I think the moderators on PW do a fantastic job and have my utmost respect.

My non-political .02.

Rick


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Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: Rickster] #2847321 05/11/19 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Rickster
BigIslandGuy and LarryK, don't feel badly about having your comments deleted...


I had comments recounting historical facts deleted from the "What happened in 1980" thread.


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Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847324 05/11/19 09:54 AM
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Thanks Rick, I’m ok, I knew I shouldn’t have typed that line.

The whole trade and tariffs thing reminds me of a book entitled The World as I Found It, about the philosopher Wittgenstein.

I think the structure we have built around manufacturing and trade cannot be easily changed. I spent four years writing software which modeled container shipping on a global level so I got a chance to see the scale of the system we have built. There are a lot ways that we can all be harmed by a trade war.

I recommend “The Box: How the Shipping Container Made the World Smaller and the World Economy Bigger” by Marc Levinson. It tells the story of how one man, Malcolm McLean, changed the world when he took the boxes off of trucks and figured out how to put them in ships, and then got cranes installed in the ports to handle the boxes, and took on organized labor to make all that happen. It’s a fascinating story and a great book.

Last edited by LarryK; 05/11/19 09:55 AM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: malkin] #2847351 05/11/19 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by malkin
Originally Posted by Rickster
BigIslandGuy and LarryK, don't feel badly about having your comments deleted...

I had comments recounting historical facts deleted from the "What happened in 1980" thread.

We live in a day when facts to one are f**e news to another. Perhaps someday, facts will matter once again.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847364 05/11/19 11:59 AM
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Just my opinion but I think the China piano industry is big enough and robust enough to casually drop the prices on their US piano exports to pretty much absorb the cost of the tariffs. I guess we’ll see. In my day it was called “playing chicken”.


J & J
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Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847374 05/11/19 12:55 PM
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A couple of quick observations: First (as has been pointed out above), the additional ("Section 301") tariffs on Chinese goods apply to goods manufactured in China (technically "country of origin" China) regardless of where the company is headquartered and regardless of where the goods ship from (Chinese pianos shipped from Vietnam or Taiwan, for example, would still be subject to the duties).

Second, so far pianos have escaped these additional duties. The USTR is currently looking into putting the tariffs on all goods from China, but until that happens Chinese acoustic pianos are still dutiable at the ordinary duty rate that always apples (generally 4.7%). When/if the USTR launches this next round of additional duties, I would assume they will be at 25%.

Larry.

Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847402 05/11/19 04:03 PM
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Probably.

We have a recent similar US government intervention in high-ticket consumer goods Case Study via "Clunkers for Cash". That reduced national supply of decent used cars and significantly boosted car prices.

Re: Will tariffs on Chinese imports increase used piano values? [Re: swampwiz] #2847444 05/11/19 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Retsacnal
Tariffs on Chinese pianos would probably just encourage imports from other places, like Indonesia, Korea, Japan, etc (assuming the tariffs were high enough to make the others more appealing).



"If it sounds good, it is good." - Duke Ellington
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