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Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2846236
05/07/19 08:57 PM
05/07/19 08:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,615
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Hello iLogic,

Sorry to hear that you decided to part with your CA98.

Originally Posted by iLogic
The sound. The action was great but I wasn’t feeling the sound honestly.


May I ask if you can provide more details, please?

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
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Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: EPW] #2846240
05/07/19 09:20 PM
05/07/19 09:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,478
Twin Cities
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TonyB Offline
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Originally Posted by EPW
By now Tony I thought you would of given up on that silly guitar thing smile


Naw. smile

I think the guitar gets a bad rap because what we are mostly exposed to in mainstream media is the electric guitar, with its players prancing around on stage in weird getup, cranked way up and terribly distorted, playing to drug-addled crowds. But there is a lot of good guitar playing that is completely absent from that scenario. Far outside the mainstream media are those who don't "plug in" at all and are making beautiful music that nobody cares about, and can READ standard notation as well as having a full understanding of diatonic harmony, bucking another stereotype.

It is said that the difference between a jazz guitarist and a rock guitarist, is that a jazz guitarist plays 10,000 chords for 3 people, and a rock guitarist plays 3 chords for 10,000 people. smile But, then, there is the acoustic guitar player who does neither, instead arranging various tunes into lovely solo guitar pieces that have the bass line, harmony, and melody all played at the same time, thinking less "vertically" and more "horizontally" as a classically trained composer/arranger might.

The guitar, in the hands of those who care enough to master it, can play the bass line, the harmony, and the melody all at the same time, as pianists can. It is that world that I live in, even if few people care to listen. I get personal satisfaction from it. I don't own an electric guitar.

These lyrics from Jimmy Buffet's "Come Monday" say it rather well...

've got my hush-puppies on,
I guess I never was meant for
Glitter rock and roll.

To me, the guitar and the piano are complementary instruments for those guitar players who actually PLAY the instrument, especially those of us who can write and/or arrange music to our liking. I have seen posts here on occasion from other guitar players who have also taken up the piano. I would suspect that at least some of them fit the description I have provided of my own guitar playing.

One thing you will never hear a piano player say - "Hey, can you hand me that piano over there?". We guitar players will often say "Hey, can you hand me that guitar over there?". smile The instrument does have its advantages - the ability to handle polyphony, while at the same time remain portable enough to take on a plane. For those guitar players who care enough about musical craftsmanship on the instrument, that polyphony can do wonderful things.

Living in a condo, I opted for a digital piano so I can use headphones and not disturb my neighbors. In that same condo, I can have "world class" boutique real steel string and classical guitars that don't need an amplifier and don't disturb neighbors. I will probably never own an acoustic piano, even though I could afford to buy one. With the unamplified acoustic guitar, I have absolutely no compromise in my choice of instrument due to living in a condo. I have no need for an amplifier for my guitar. Like a high quality acoustic piano, a good acoustic (steel or nylon string) guitar was designed and built to sound its best unamplified.

What gives the guitar such a bad stereotype is that the things that most players of other instruments take for granted as a normal part of their playing (i.e. ability to read standard notation and a knowledge of how music works), seem to be absent from the "catch as catch can" method of self-teaching many guitar players have had. However, to be sure, there are many guitar players who have either cared enough to learn these things for themselves or have learned it through a degree program at some college. There are a large number of on-call studio musicians who have tremendous reading skills and overall knowledge of their instrument, but you will rarely hear of, or see them.

What many guitar players do develop is the ability to hear music by spending many hours learning music directly off of recordings. I can do that, and so can most guitar players. I see in these forums, many who say they can't do that. I have learned some piano music off of recordings, but I think classical music might be a rather tall order to learn that way. smile

Anyway, I enjoy going back and forth between the guitar and the piano, a bit like taking a break from one instrument while focusing on the other for a while. This helps me stay fresh on both.

Of course, back to the topic at hand, the size of the guitar, coupled with its relatively lower cost than a decent piano, lends itself well to frequent buying/selling/trading. My Roland V-Grand digital piano has a baby grand cabinet and weighs 375 lbs. I bought that with the idea that it would last me probably the rest of my life.

Tony


Last edited by TonyB; 05/07/19 09:23 PM.
Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2846244
05/07/19 09:38 PM
05/07/19 09:38 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 591
Greater Chicago Metro Area
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EPW Offline
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I was just teasing you Tony. I wish I could play the guitar but the left handed in me just couldn't learn to play a right hand guitar. I will agree that I have friends and folks I know that play the guitar and all can play by ear, some can actually read notation smile I tried multiple times to pick up by ear and some simple pieces I was slowly able to pick out the melody but I never seemed to get out of the preschool state of playing by ear. At least I can compose a little and do a good job of rearranging music. Glad you're enjoying your retirement and still playing both instruments.

Ed


All these years playing and I still consider myself a novice.
Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2846249
05/07/19 09:51 PM
05/07/19 09:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,326
Dublin
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Originally Posted by iLogic
I tested the LX706 and wasn’t that impressed. I am yet to try the 708 though.


It would be interesting if someone who doesn't particularly like the LX706 really liked the LX708. I wonder how much of a difference the speakers make. I've never played either, but I'm dying to try the action on the new top-of-the-line Rolands.

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: Kawai James] #2846287
05/08/19 12:38 AM
05/08/19 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello iLogic,

Sorry to hear that you decided to part with your CA98.

Originally Posted by iLogic
The sound. The action was great but I wasn’t feeling the sound honestly.


May I ask if you can provide more details, please?


I don't know how about iLogic but for me at the begining the sound of Kawai itself, even acoustic grands was not completely to my liking. My theory is that being used to Steinwey sound it's hard to change to different sounding pianos. I didn't like Bechstein sound on Casio or Kawai sound on CA78/98 at the begining but they both grew on me considerably. Kawai even more because of the soundboard, I like the sound a lot now. I think that's why poople like Pianoteq and Roland sound so much(including me), because most people know and love Steinway sound and it's hard to change that, even when other sounds are also very good but considerably different.

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: Nordomus] #2846290
05/08/19 01:20 AM
05/08/19 01:20 AM
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iLogic Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
Originally Posted by Kawai James
Hello iLogic,

Sorry to hear that you decided to part with your CA98.

Originally Posted by iLogic
The sound. The action was great but I wasn’t feeling the sound honestly.


May I ask if you can provide more details, please?


I don't know how about iLogic but for me at the begining the sound of Kawai itself, even acoustic grands was not completely to my liking. My theory is that being used to Steinwey sound it's hard to change to different sounding pianos. I didn't like Bechstein sound on Casio or Kawai sound on CA78/98 at the begining but they both grew on me considerably. Kawai even more because of the soundboard, I like the sound a lot now. I think that's why poople like Pianoteq and Roland sound so much(including me), because most people know and love Steinway sound and it's hard to change that, even when other sounds are also very good but considerably different.


Well, perhaps that, but I also felt a big difference in how the sound was presented through headphones, where Yamaha did a more convincing job of simulating the sound coming from all around the instrument. Using headphones with the Kawai, it was as if listening to a recording, regardless of SHS settings.

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2846322
05/08/19 07:28 AM
05/08/19 07:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
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Nordomus Online content
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Originally Posted by iLogic

Well, perhaps that, but I also felt a big difference in how the sound was presented through headphones, where Yamaha did a more convincing job of simulating the sound coming from all around the instrument. Using headphones with the Kawai, it was as if listening to a recording, regardless of SHS settings.


Ok I can't compare those things, I use speakers 90% of the time but I heard there are some problems with pianist mode on Kawai on headphones.

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: Nordomus] #2846328
05/08/19 07:44 AM
05/08/19 07:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,182
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Originally Posted by Nordomus
Originally Posted by iLogic
Well, perhaps that, but I also felt a big difference in how the sound was presented through headphones, where Yamaha did a more convincing job of simulating the sound coming from all around the instrument. Using headphones with the Kawai, it was as if listening to a recording, regardless of SHS settings.
Ok I can't compare those things, I use speakers 90% of the time but I heard there are some problems with pianist mode on Kawai on headphones.

Really? I use headphones 95% of the time myself. Can you be more specific? I believe that with respect to headphone use, the CA98 and the NV10 that I am considering now share the same sound.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2846333
05/08/19 08:18 AM
05/08/19 08:18 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,615
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Tyrone, there is no problem using Pianist mode with headphones.

I expect what Nordomus may have “heard” was arc7urus’ often-cited (although not verified) complaint that the Spatial Headphone Sound (SHS) feature causes distortion in Pianist mode, and that he therefore prefers the headphone sound with this feature disabled.

I have never experienced distortion through headphones, however if a customer prefers to disable SHS, that’s obviously their choice.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2846336
05/08/19 08:22 AM
05/08/19 08:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,217
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Online content
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Sofia, Bulgaria
The binaural CFX patch in the latest Yamaha pianos seems to be a huge success for them. And I'm sure Kawai realized that and we'll see a binaural patch in their next pianos smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: Kawai James] #2846343
05/08/19 08:49 AM
05/08/19 08:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 103
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iLogic Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Tyrone, there is no problem using Pianist mode with headphones.

I expect what Nordomus may have “heard” was arc7urus’ often-cited (although not verified) complaint that the Spatial Headphone Sound (SHS) feature causes distortion in Pianist mode, and that he therefore prefers the headphone sound with this feature disabled.

I have never experienced distortion through headphones, however if a customer prefers to disable SHS, that’s obviously their choice.

Kind regards,
James
x


James,

There was no issue with the sound through headphones for me, I just liked the binaural samples more than the SHS effect.

//iLogic

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: EPW] #2846349
05/08/19 09:02 AM
05/08/19 09:02 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,478
Twin Cities
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TonyB Offline
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Originally Posted by EPW
I was just teasing you Tony. I wish I could play the guitar but the left handed in me just couldn't learn to play a right hand guitar. I will agree that I have friends and folks I know that play the guitar and all can play by ear, some can actually read notation smile I tried multiple times to pick up by ear and some simple pieces I was slowly able to pick out the melody but I never seemed to get out of the preschool state of playing by ear. At least I can compose a little and do a good job of rearranging music. Glad you're enjoying your retirement and still playing both instruments.

Ed


I knew you were teasing, which is why I threw the smiley into the opening of the post. I appreciate the fun. What I did was take advantage of the subject being brought up so I could properly address the guitar as a valid instrument in this forum. Usually, if you have an acoustic guitar, folks expect you to sing and strum. It seems that many non-players don't realize that the guitar is really quite a musically versatile instrument, since the exposure of the guitar in the media does not include any of that.

On the other hand, the piano, while also used to accompany singers and other instruments, has a long mainstream history of solo performance and is therefore commonly accepted in that role.

Tony

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: Jitin] #2846425
05/08/19 11:52 AM
05/08/19 11:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 367
Germany
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
The binaural CFX patch in the latest Yamaha pianos seems to be a huge success for them. And I'm sure Kawai realized that and we'll see a binaural patch in their next pianos smile


I've turned off the binaural function because i don't like that sound. laugh

Originally Posted by Jitin
Why did you sell it, isn’t ca98 a fine instrument?


Well... on objective view it's fine. My subjective view: God no! Underwhelming sound production wrapped in an ugly case. wink


Current: Yamaha NU1X | Roland FP-30 with Garritan CFX Full & Pianoteq 6
Past: Yamaha: P-115, YDP-163, CLP-545, CLP-685 | Kawai: CA-98, Novus NV10
Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: TonyB] #2846902
05/09/19 10:53 PM
05/09/19 10:53 PM
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Tony, I too am a guitarist (62 yrs) .. discovered piano at 72 . I’ll be 74 and I’m likely done w guitar.
As a jazz and blues guitarist out of New Orleans, I have had the benefit of great teachers and mentors. Taught clinics, toured, totally immersed and obsessed w guitar. Then along comes piano.
I am fortunate to have a great retired master pianist in my lil Florida town. I have to force myself to play guitar cause I still gig and teach but I find in utterly pale next to a piano. I can’t wait to play piano. Now for my question for Tony.
Do you find guitar playing affects your piano chops? I find the hands to be stressed and piano seems to need very relaxed hands. I do have the luxury of practicing 4-5 hrs of piano a day and then I get relaxed after a while.
Now one more question. I only practice guitar maybe 3 times a week plus gigs but I am playing the best guitar of my life. ( even band members noticed) Do you find piano improved your guitar playing? Thanks - Mr AJ

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: Hotstrings] #2847119
05/10/19 03:13 PM
05/10/19 03:13 PM
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Posts: 1,478
Twin Cities
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TonyB Offline
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Originally Posted by Hotstrings
Tony, I too am a guitarist (62 yrs) .. discovered piano at 72 . I’ll be 74 and I’m likely done w guitar.
As a jazz and blues guitarist out of New Orleans, I have had the benefit of great teachers and mentors. Taught clinics, toured, totally immersed and obsessed w guitar. Then along comes piano.
I am fortunate to have a great retired master pianist in my lil Florida town. I have to force myself to play guitar cause I still gig and teach but I find in utterly pale next to a piano. I can’t wait to play piano. Now for my question for Tony.
Do you find guitar playing affects your piano chops? I find the hands to be stressed and piano seems to need very relaxed hands. I do have the luxury of practicing 4-5 hrs of piano a day and then I get relaxed after a while.
Now one more question. I only practice guitar maybe 3 times a week plus gigs but I am playing the best guitar of my life. ( even band members noticed) Do you find piano improved your guitar playing? Thanks - Mr AJ


Mr. AJ,

I played guitar full time in a trio that played supper clubs, resorts, private clubs, and the Holiday Inn circuit and equivalent up in Canada as well. We typically stayed a week at each gig. That was back in 1978. I was glad to be able to try out the life style for a couple of years, and decided that I didn't want to spend my life on the road so I went into engineering instead.

So, for me, the guitar has been optional, with the exception of some part time stints in local jazz groups over the years. I don't do any of that any more. I am retired, but typically work a 3 month, 3 day per week engineering contract every year. That helps stave off having to dip into my IRA savings too soon, while allowing me to purchase/sell/trade guitars as I wish.

I seem to spend time with the guitar for a while, and then switch over to piano for a while, and then switch back. It is all very relaxed and I don't have issues with my hands. I find the perspectives of playing both piano and guitar to be complementary.

I hope that answers your questions.

Tony

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2847150
05/10/19 04:29 PM
05/10/19 04:29 PM
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A sale of the white CLP-685 currently here in Sweden, (about 2000SEK cheaper). Not very common I guess? Do the retailers know something about upcoming models being presented at NAMM perhaps? (One can only hope).

Tempted to buy the discounted 685, but I’ll regret it lots if a 785 is announced at NAMM so I don’t dare....

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2847153
05/10/19 04:51 PM
05/10/19 04:51 PM
Joined: Jun 2013
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I wonder if there’s any record of new Clavinova models released at summer NAMM.
I wouldn’t mind new models, but it seems like winter NAMM is Yamaha’s preferred event for the Clavinovas.

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2847255
05/11/19 02:25 AM
05/11/19 02:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,484
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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CLP200 series . . . released in 2005
CLP300 series . . . released in 2008
CLP400 series . . . released in 2011
CLP500 series . . . released in 2014
CLP600 series . . . released in 2017

CLP700 series . . . will be released in 2020 ???

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: MacMacMac] #2847264
05/11/19 03:25 AM
05/11/19 03:25 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 103
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iLogic Offline OP
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
CLP200 series . . . released in 2005
CLP300 series . . . released in 2008
CLP400 series . . . released in 2011
CLP500 series . . . released in 2014
CLP600 series . . . released in 2017

CLP700 series . . . will be released in 2020 ???


I would say so, if it wasn’t for the 695 that was released last year that kinda screw things up..

Re: Sold my CA98 today [Re: iLogic] #2847265
05/11/19 03:54 AM
05/11/19 03:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,484
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
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The CLPx6x and CLPx9x models are the mini-grands.
They're not released in step with the others.
Sometimes a given x9x model will continue to sell through multiple generations of the other CLP models.
They're slow sellers and I guess there's little reason to update them as often.

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