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Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: newport] #2844994
05/04/19 06:03 AM
05/04/19 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by newport
I would just say George Li seems to me more confident in "bearing his soul" on stage.

My guess is by "bearing one's soul" you are talking about pianists whose stage presence, physical movements, and facial expressions show passion for and involvement in the music. But some pianists by their nature are physically less expressive but that does mean they are necessarily musically less expressive. IOW there is a difference between musically bearing one's soul and physically bearing one's soul.

I definitely prefer pianists who are physically expressive at least to some small degree(unless they are over the top or fake in their physical expression)as long as the musical results are also terrific. But there are some sensational pianists who by nature or by nurture are very reserved in their stage presence.

I think Alexander Kobrin would be an example. But I don't think his reserved stage presence is a question of confidence in bearing his soul. I know he is extremely passionate about the music he plays because I have seen him in master classes where is a very different person than when he performs.





Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/04/19 06:08 AM.
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Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: sheana] #2845023
05/04/19 08:35 AM
05/04/19 08:35 AM
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As for her fingers ... looking at that first video at 0:28 we see her right hand. It seems that her little finger is long ... but not as long as any of the others.

It's also clear in this picture:
[Linked Image]

Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: sheana] #2845039
05/04/19 09:39 AM
05/04/19 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by sheana
What school of piano technique do you think was her foundation?

Yuja Wang was trained for 5 years at Curtis in the Russian school of piano playing by her teacher Gary Graffman, who himself was trained for 10 years in the Russian school by Isabelle Vengerova, a pedagogue of the Russian school and who herself taught at the St. Petersburg Conservatory.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
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Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: MacMacMac] #2845051
05/04/19 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
As for her fingers ... looking at that first video at 0:28 we see her right hand. It seems that her little finger is long ... but not as long as any of the others.

It's also clear in this picture:
[Linked Image]

I think her left hand little finger looks longer than her right hand little finger in the picture. But pictures with splayed finger position are very deceiving...just put your own fingers in that position if you have any doubts about this. I think the only real way to judge relative finger length is to look at the hand when the fingers are touching or very close together.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 05/04/19 10:36 AM.
Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: sheana] #2845147
05/04/19 02:47 PM
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I enjoyed this interview very much.

I had previously been slightly dismissive of Yuja Wang. Sometimes I read a lot into one's appearance, and her frequent choice to wear clothes that show a lot of skin has caused me to suspect that she somewhat highly values the prospect of eliciting a fundamental, physical attraction within members of her audience. If, and by how much, this is a bad or good thing is everyone's to decide for themselves.

For me, it has dampened the esteem that her incredible skills and performances would otherwise command. The only places I have seen her performances have been YouTube videos. I have rarely, possibly never, had the experience of watching her perform without being distracted in varying amounts, by the physical attraction to her, at least partially induced by the scantiness of her attire.

So, without diminishing my appreciation for her considerable pianistic achievement, I have come to take her less seriously than I would other similarly situated pianists who do not emphasize physical or sexual attractiveness as part of their overall presentation. I was dismissive of her because I suspected her of immaturity, based upon her choices in favor of what I saw as the intentional cultivation of physical attraction among her audiences.

While I still experience these same negative impressions of her, I was very happy to hear what I thought were pearls of intelligence, humility, and deep respect for the world of music in which she circulates. I was not expecting, and was very surprised by, her comments about how and why she has not delved into the music of Beethoven and Mozart. Her ability to see past the public persona of Yuja Wang the magnificent pianist, and to see herself instead, as not yet ready to undertake Mozart and Beethoven for reasons of her youth, her animated lifestyle, and other personal attributes really struck me as very mature and/or wise.

It causes me to wonder if the hinted at, contemplative, respectful person she was revealing is more the real Yuja Wang than is the sexy, scantilly clad pianistic sensation she is in her public performances. I wonder if the public persona is merely what she feels she has to project in order to have the success her wonderful talents otherwise deserve and call for. I hope it is merely that, and, that one day she will be able to put aside such considerations, and be comfortable in her musical achievement.

I am a more appreciative, and optimistic, fan, having heard this interview.


Ralph

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Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2845305
05/05/19 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by sheana
What school of piano technique do you think was her foundation?

Yuja Wang was trained for 5 years at Curtis in the Russian school of piano playing by her teacher Gary Graffman, who himself was trained for 10 years in the Russian school by Isabelle Vengerova, a pedagogue of the Russian school and who herself taught at the St. Petersburg Conservatory.

I suppose I could have googled this, but thank you for providing the information. The Graffman connection explains so much about her skills, demeanor, and, indeed, her entire performance persona. She's a genius of the first order IMO.


SRF
Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: Ralphiano] #2845331
05/05/19 05:12 AM
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The world of classic piano is extremely competitive. And I think we have entered in a world of image which whether we are conscious of it or not has an impact on our opinions. There is a constant arrival of new players who have excellent technical skills and can play any piece of the repertoire. So having an excellent technique is not enough anymore. Getting and staying at the rarefied list of top players requires to carefully manage one's image. A pianist also needs to create a story around her/his personality. Obviously Yuja Wang (or her communicaton crew) has well managed that area. So in addition of being talented, she is also quite aligned with the trends of her time. Other pianists like Lang Lang or Katia Buniatishvili have also done an excellent job there.

Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: sheana] #2845332
05/05/19 05:23 AM
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When Yuja Wang went to Curtis she already had a fully developed technique. Her work with Graffman was to develop herself as a musician and artist. So not sure it is accurate at all to say that she was trained in the Russian school of piano playing in the physical sense. And given Graffman managed to wreck his hands, probably a good job he didn't.

Incidentally, I don't think Benjamin Grosvenor spends much time cultivating an extra-musical image, and he is doing pretty well for himself.

Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: Hatchestron] #2845362
05/05/19 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Hatchestron
When Yuja Wang went to Curtis she already had a fully developed technique. Her work with Graffman was to develop herself as a musician and artist. So not sure it is accurate at all to say that she was trained in the Russian school of piano playing in the physical sense.

I can only comment on what I read from those with expertise in this matter, but I would question if this is also accurate or a commonly held principle - that one's technique is already set by the time one gets to the conservatory. What makes me lean the other way is that with no exceptions I can think of, students entering the conservatory are all already advanced pianists, whether they are Yuja Wang or someone else. Yet this has not stopped the discussion of a piano school genealogy connecting conservatory teachers to their students, down through time, which would be pointless if your technique was already set in stone by the time you went to college.

Can people who did attend conservatories for piano performance comment on this point? Was your piano technique already set before you went to college? And did your college piano teacher influence that technique in any way? Does your piano technique today reflect more that of your childhood teacher(s) or that of your college teacher(s)?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: sheana] #2845402
05/05/19 10:51 AM
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Querying 100 conservatory graduates which teachers had the most impact on technique does not get you the answer about Yuja Wang’s experience.., and even if she were directly asked this question, you would not get an accurate response as long as her teachers are still living.

Every concert pianist links their piano genealogy.. but that doesn’t mean those teachers necessarily had the biggest impact on technique ... it just helps establish credibility.


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Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: dogperson] #2845422
05/05/19 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dogperson
Querying 100 conservatory graduates which teachers had the most impact on technique does not get you the answer about Yuja Wang’s experience.., and even if she were directly asked this question, you would not get an accurate response as long as her teachers are still living.

I was addressing Hatchestron's comment from a more general perspective than just discussing Yuja Wang, as Hatchestron's comments could have applied to any professional classical pianist - there was really nothing Yuja Wang-specific in the comment except in citing her, her college, and her college teacher.

Let me state a hypothesis: For professional classical pianists that attended the conservatory, their college piano teacher(s) has a statistically bigger influence on their mature piano technique than their childhood piano teacher(s). Now, this is only a hypothesis. To provide evidence for or against such a hypothesis, one should collect data. So to that end, I'd ask again:
Quote
Can people who did attend conservatories for piano performance comment on this point? Was your piano technique already set before you went to college? And did your college piano teacher influence that technique in any way? Does your piano technique today reflect more that of your childhood teacher(s) or that of your college teacher(s)?


Originally Posted by dogperson
Every concert pianist links their piano genealogy.. but that doesn’t mean those teachers necessarily had the biggest impact on technique ... it just helps establish credibility.

Well, that is clearly just one interpretation. I've never seen this interpretation in writing and would ask you to kindly source it for us.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2845431
05/05/19 12:06 PM
05/05/19 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by dogperson
Every concert pianist links their piano genealogy.. but that doesn’t mean those teachers necessarily had the biggest impact on technique ... it just helps establish credibility.
Well, that is clearly just one interpretation. I've never seen this interpretation in writing and would ask you to kindly source it for us.
Standard bios, whether entire books of single paragraphs, of concert pianists usually list their teachers.

Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: sheana] #2845446
05/05/19 12:51 PM
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Every teacher is different. Some will tear you down and ask you to start from "zero", others merely give helpful "suggestions".


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Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: sheana] #2846758
05/09/19 11:32 AM
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I think my playing was very adversely affected by my conservatory training. It all depends on the teacher you have. I was tied up and knots, and wasn't his only "victim". That being said, it took many years for me to get back a relaxed technique.

Someone commented that Khatia Buniatisvhelli(spelling??) technique was hard to discern because so little outward movement is seen when she plays. She seems to have quite large hands, and doesn't have the strong arch so visible in Yuja Wang's videos.

I think her playing has great emotion, and take great delight in listening to her.

What are your thoughts on her method of technique, what were her influences, etc. I really enjoyed reading all the beautifully phrased, insightful posts in this thread.

Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: sheana] #2846782
05/09/19 12:32 PM
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Can't resist, here is a video of Khatia Buniatishvili, Yuja Wang wit...(also a pianist, btw) turning the pages.
Can't comment on technique, unfortunately, because I don't have the knowledge.

* Oh, it shortened the link text which is 'Khatia Buniatishvili, Yuja Wang with Gvantsa Buniatishvili (also a pianist, btw) turning the pages.'

Last edited by petebfrance; 05/09/19 12:34 PM. Reason: to show full link text

regards
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Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: sheana] #2846791
05/09/19 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by sheana
I think my playing was very adversely affected by my conservatory training. It all depends on the teacher you have. I was tied up and knots, and wasn't his only "victim". That being said, it took many years for me to get back a relaxed technique.

Someone commented that Khatia Buniatisvhelli(spelling??) technique was hard to discern because so little outward movement is seen when she plays. She seems to have quite large hands, and doesn't have the strong arch so visible in Yuja Wang's videos.

I think her playing has great emotion, and take great delight in listening to her.

What are your thoughts on her method of technique, what were her influences, etc. I really enjoyed reading all the beautifully phrased, insightful posts in this thread.


Sounds like we had the same teacher. Didn't go to CCM, did you?

Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2848113
05/14/19 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Let me state a hypothesis: For professional classical pianists that attended the conservatory, their college piano teacher(s) has a statistically bigger influence on their mature piano technique than their childhood piano teacher(s). Now, this is only a hypothesis. To provide evidence for or against such a hypothesis, one should collect data. So to that end, I'd ask again:
Quote
Can people who did attend conservatories for piano performance comment on this point? Was your piano technique already set before you went to college? And did your college piano teacher influence that technique in any way? Does your piano technique today reflect more that of your childhood teacher(s) or that of your college teacher(s)?



I'd be interested to see data regarding this, but my guess would be that your hypothesis is not correct. As with most things in life, the habits we acquire at an earlier age tend to have a stronger influence on us than do the habits we acquire later.

I have met very few musicians that I would say "changed their technique" in any fundamental way during college. Teachers at the college level tend to spend very little time on technique. I'm sure there are exceptions.

Personally, I would say I did fundamentally change my technique as an adult, but that was a long and arduous process of self-investigation. There was no teacher who did it for me.

Now, I would also want to question how much of an influence the childhood piano teacher has. Probably more than the college teacher, but also probably not anywhere near 100%, even at a young age. Kids are not blank slates, and spend most of their time not in the teacher's presence.

Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: MichaelJK] #2848357
05/15/19 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Let me state a hypothesis: For professional classical pianists that attended the conservatory, their college piano teacher(s) has a statistically bigger influence on their mature piano technique than their childhood piano teacher(s). Now, this is only a hypothesis. To provide evidence for or against such a hypothesis, one should collect data. So to that end, I'd ask again:
Quote
Can people who did attend conservatories for piano performance comment on this point? Was your piano technique already set before you went to college? And did your college piano teacher influence that technique in any way? Does your piano technique today reflect more that of your childhood teacher(s) or that of your college teacher(s)?



I'd be interested to see data regarding this, but my guess would be that your hypothesis is not correct. As with most things in life, the habits we acquire at an earlier age tend to have a stronger influence on us than do the habits we acquire later.

I have met very few musicians that I would say "changed their technique" in any fundamental way during college. Teachers at the college level tend to spend very little time on technique. I'm sure there are exceptions.

Personally, I would say I did fundamentally change my technique as an adult, but that was a long and arduous process of self-investigation. There was no teacher who did it for me.

Now, I would also want to question how much of an influence the childhood piano teacher has. Probably more than the college teacher, but also probably not anywhere near 100%, even at a young age. Kids are not blank slates, and spend most of their time not in the teacher's presence.



My experience is that my college teacher (by which I mean conservatory) had very little to say about my fundamental technique.Once you get to that stage the college tutor's role is in developing your repertoire and your interpretation. For new, advanced-level technique obviously they have a role to play because it wouldn't have been covered earlier, but you're very unlikely to get to college/conservatory level if you have basic technical issues.

The Alexander technique sessions at college probably had more influence tbh.

Last edited by ShyPianist; 05/15/19 06:15 AM.

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Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: ShyPianist] #2848497
05/15/19 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist

The Alexander technique sessions at college probably had more influence tbh.


Careful...if the word gets out, you will put piano teachers out of business...

Re: Let's discuss Yuja Wang's technique [Re: MichaelJK] #2848525
05/15/19 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelJK
Originally Posted by ShyPianist

The Alexander technique sessions at college probably had more influence tbh.


Careful...if the word gets out, you will put piano teachers out of business...


I’m not sure the Alexander technique sessions were much help in learning how to interpret late Beethoven. 🤔


Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
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