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Someone on here had the action on their AG regulated.

Well, I knew about the infamous loud note issue before purchasing the piano and managed to reproduce it consistently (I even made a YouTube video to demonstrate that) and although still frustrated by it, I could live with it by adjusting my technique and somehow anticipating it. But then I also discovered that two keys in the middle of the keyboard were producing a slightly louder velocities than the neighboring keys. Yamaha sent me instructions on how to calibrate the sensors but it didn’t seem to help. At that point it was already too much for me, I was still in my grace period and N1X just became available for ordering and so I decided to upgrade. Ultimately both are good but I have better and consistent control on the N1X with no irregularities and no need to overcome deficiencies. It’s almost twice the price of NU1X but it’s totally worth it IMO.

That’s a great link to the Renner site, Rich! Thanks for sharing!

I guess easing up on parts to lower friction is OK. However I’m not sure changing escapement distances and stuff is a very good idea especially if performed by just a piano technician who uses his experience with acoustic pianos rather than knowledge about how AvantGrand pianos work. Maybe he won’t do harm but who knows? For instance, the escapement point on the AvantGrand pianos is 1mm more (hammer travel after escapement to string) than standard pianos. The idea is to be able to position the upper sensor within region where the scanning circuitry would manage to read the value. Shortening that distance might eventually lead to missed fortissimos or missed repetitions or who knows what. I wouldn’t personally allow non-Yamaha trained technician experiment with my AG. Or maybe I’m just to OCD-ed

Well, tech was here. As suspected I'll need the piano replaced. Will be making arrangements with the store tomorrow. The best the tech could figure is perhaps the bottom board was bad and expanded pushing out the cheek. I'm sure Yamaha will be interested in getting it back and figuring out what was wrong. Oddly enough, the tech said though he'd never seen this before, he's going next week to look at an N3X where the fallboard came off.

As a bonus, I got to take some photos while he had the top off trying to see if there was any way to get the cheek pulled in. Wasn't exactly sure what to take pictures of so it's kind of random, but maybe the first pictures of the inside of an N1X in the wild?

Glad you're getting it replaced. Techs are famous for saying they've "never seen this issue before". Keep us updated on how things go with Classic Pianos.

Nice pics! Do let us know if the replacement piano has the same issue with your set of headphones where the headphone amp simply doesn't have enough gain for your headphones.

I know the N1X etc. are expensive and certainly beyond a future budget of mine for the next couple of years. But looking at those photos it is clear there is so much part of their construction that is still fiddly time consuming stuff done by hand. I'm almost beginning to think they are cheap for what they are.

Clearly these things are still not being sold in large enough numbers to invest in more automated manufacturing, including the design of the pianos to be more easily built by automated manufacturing.

Ironic as for acoustical piano, more handcraft and less automated manufacturing is considered good I'm waiting for the day when I'll be able to print a piano out of my 3D printer

I’m beginning to think that they are expensive for what they are. There’s nothing but an entry-level action and some circuit boards/cables in there, yet they cost as much as an acoustic.
How much do you think it costs to build/implement the iron plate, soundboard, strings, pins, felt hammers, real wood cabinet, etc..? None of this is present in a hybrid. All I see is an action, lots of empty space and some cables. Of course that’s fine for the intended goal, by it sure does not translate well into the pricing.
Don’t get me wrong, I like these hybrids, but I don’t agree with the prices. A forum member was actually quoted more for an N3X than a Yamaha acoustic baby grand (I don’t remember the model). Still, my guess is that -quirks and all- the acoustic would sweep the floor with the N3X; incidentally, the most grossly over-priced hybrid ever.

Could you be underestimating the price of a piano action, itself? For example, the NV10 using a Millennium III action. If I had a real Kawai acoustical grand and needed to replace its Millennium III action, how much would buying the replacement action alone cost, not including labor? I suspect that price is well into 4 figures.

I’m speculating, but I don’t believe that the Millennium in the NV10 is identical to the one used in the Shigeru concert grand as is implied. The action in the NV10 might share a similar design and plastic -carbon fiber- parts, but my gut tells me that it does not get the kind of love from expert technicians that the Shigeru action gets. At best it’s a ‘Chinese’ replica of the real thing.
Once again, I’m speculating.

Well, Kawai would be engaged in false advertising and in violation of export/trade laws then, as it says "Kawai Action--Made in Japan" right on the action rail!

Kawai James for Prison 2020!!

The Shigeru is advertised as completely handbuilt. I assumed that included the piano action. Does it actually use a Millennium III action?

TBH, I also thought (and still think) current hybrids are overpriced which was why I started my DIY hybrid in the first place. On the other hand these are niche instruments.

Let’s start proceedings to have James impeached!

C'mon Tyrone, your better than that! You can go to Kawai Japan's page for the SK pianos and look at the specs here: http://www.kawai-global.com/product/c/grandpianos/shigeru-kawai/

All of them, including the SK-EX, specify the action is the Millennium III. What that means we can split hairs about, but the claim is right here. Why would Kawai "downplay" their most prestigious instrument?



CyberGene, didn't you try to source a new Chinese grand action for your project? How much were they asking (with volume discount)?

Well, they never quoted me. The said I should order at least 50 for us to start talks Which I may eventually do some day... Anyway, I've seen brand new Chinese grands costing as low as $3000. They are probably cr*p but in any case that's the price for entire grand pianos with a cabinet, action, soundboard, iron frame, strings... Even if the action might not be very good it's still an action, right. So I would assume an action alone won't cost more than $1500. And that's reasonable after all. These are just some wooden parts, cut by CNC. Even if all that needs to be manually assembled, it would still not take more than a few man-hours total IMO.

$1500 for a "cr*p action" in volume isn't a bad estimate, IMO. In any case, it supports the proposition that we're well into the 4-figure arena, and previously quoted figures of $2-4k for a...non-cr*p(?) action aren't out of line at all. I'm sure some actions go higher. As to whether that speaks to an inflated pricing for hybrids I simply cannot say.

FWIW, having seen grand actions at work, I think you may be underestimating the manual labor needed to supplement all those mass-CNC'd parts with glue, felts and leather to the point where all keys operate as they should, even excluding the bespoke regulation inherent in premiere concert grands.

So, if CG can get an action for about $1,500 (for the sake of argument), that means that it probably costs about half that for the manufacturer to build it (they have to make a profit, after all).
That leaves us at about $750.00 for the manufacturing costs of the NV10 action; add some speakers ($400), and a mock cabinet (500), and we end up at $11,000 street price....... wait, something went wrong with my calculations. We need someone with top-notch math skills to crack this open.
Are hybrids more than the sum of their parts, or are they more than the sum of $750+400+500?

P.S.

This applies to the AvantGrand as well.