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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
RobR #2846395 05/08/19 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by RobR
Is $8400 a good price for this? This price is after discount.


I paid $8,050.00 out the door for mine.

I provided for my own delivery and setup so there was no additional charges.

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2846396 05/08/19 10:45 AM
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Thank you for the answer.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
RobR #2846398 05/08/19 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RobR
Thank you for the answer.

Check the last 3-4 pages of the prices paid thread too for more data points.


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"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2846406 05/08/19 11:06 AM
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Very useful thread. Thank You.

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
HwyStar #2846411 05/08/19 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by HwyStar

did the store's comment on regulation of this piano?

The dealer told me that it can be regulated cause it's a real action. Like real pianos, middle keys, due to regular playing, are more solicited so the keyboard can be "digged" after X-time and so it can be regulated.

PS : sorry for my approximate english

Last edited by Bro'; 05/08/19 11:18 AM.

Chopin is the only dead man that makes me feel alive.
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2846414 05/08/19 11:22 AM
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The N-series can be regulated, however they have very specific parameters of regulation that are needed for the sensing system to work. They can't be just regulated to the taste of the player. The "regulation" is rather to bring them back to spec so that the piano works as expected. With that in mind, there's no way for a regular piano technician to just come and make the keys lighter for you smile Although I'd argue that making keys lighter isn't something that's at all possible through only a regulation. Let alone changing the feel towards the fallboard which is a physical limitation of the leverage (pivot point) rather than anything related to the regulation.

Last edited by CyberGene; 05/08/19 11:25 AM.

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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2846415 05/08/19 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Although I'd argue that making keys lighter isn't something that's at all possible through only a regulation. Let alone changing the feel towards the fallboard which is a physical limitation of the leverage (pivot point) rather than anything related to the regulation.

Couldn't counterweights be added to or removed from the keys?


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Tyrone Slothrop #2846416 05/08/19 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

Couldn't counterweights be added to or removed from the keys?

If you wanted to potentially sacrifice repetition speed, then yes you can add more counterweights. But have you seen the number of counterweights in an Avant Grand compared to an acoustic grand key stick? There's already so much, It's kind of crazy. This is one of the main things that makes me wonder what the difference is between an Avant Grand action and one of Yamaha's acoustic baby grands.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2846419 05/08/19 11:45 AM
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Maybe you can remove weights from the keysticks to make them lighter (they need to be removed in pairs though, because otherwise you will also change the static weight of the keys which needs to be e.g. 50g. By adding them in pairs you make the key having a higher inertia while still retaining the static weight). However it's not sure if Yamaha added them in pairs to start with. Maybe they calculated their action in such a way that the static weight is achieved through a careful balance of the added weights vs the action parts and the hammer. Most of these things are usually calculated by the manufacturer and it's not supposed for technicians to do them although I known they sometime do them. But it isn't considered a standard manipulation to add/remove weights to the keys. And especially for a hybrid instrument that relies on a fine balance between physical motion and electronic timing measurement which should be translated into predefined range of values. Maybe I am wrong.


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Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2846429 05/08/19 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
Maybe you can remove weights from the keysticks to make them lighter (they need to be removed in pairs though, because otherwise you will also change the static weight of the keys which needs to be e.g. 50g. By adding them in pairs you make the key having a higher inertia while still retaining the static weight). However it's not sure if Yamaha added them in pairs to start with. Maybe they calculated their action in such a way that the static weight is achieved through a careful balance of the added weights vs the action parts and the hammer. Most of these things are usually calculated by the manufacturer and it's not supposed for technicians to do them although I known they sometime do them. But it isn't considered a standard manipulation to add/remove weights to the keys. And especially for a hybrid instrument that relies on a fine balance between physical motion and electronic timing measurement which should be translated into predefined range of values. Maybe I am wrong.

There was an interesting discussion on adding or removing counterweights on real acoustic pianos on the technicians forum that I was looking at a little while back. Not sure if this applies to hybrids though.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2846443 05/08/19 12:42 PM
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Question on repetition, and this is honestly more of an action question I think. Occasionally while playing a fast repeated note I do "something" and when I hit the key the second time it feels different, like it's sort of stuck and the piano also doesn't play the note. I can't make this happen consistently, but I'm trying to hone in on what I do when it does happen. Perhaps it's striking the key a bit off center? It happens mostly when actually playing my current piece (the second movement of Beethoven's Op 49 No 2, the dotted 8th followed by a 16th) rather than trying to make it happen by testing. I've kind of had it happen on my teachers piano though it feels different, however it also makes no sound.

I'm guessing it's some sort of deficiency of my technique but I'd love to understand the mechanics of what's going on.


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545, R. Schumann Fantasy Dance, Joplin The Chrysanthemum
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO, Piano de Voyage
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Chrispy #2846455 05/08/19 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrispy
Question on repetition, and this is honestly more of an action question I think. Occasionally while playing a fast repeated note I do "something" and when I hit the key the second time it feels different, like it's sort of stuck and the piano also doesn't play the note. I can't make this happen consistently, but I'm trying to hone in on what I do when it does happen. Perhaps it's striking the key a bit off center? It happens mostly when actually playing my current piece (the second movement of Beethoven's Op 49 No 2, the dotted 8th followed by a 16th) rather than trying to make it happen by testing. I've kind of had it happen on my teachers piano though it feels different, however it also makes no sound.

I'm guessing it's some sort of deficiency of my technique but I'd love to understand the mechanics of what's going on.

This happens to me as well when replaying a key and when the key has been released only slightly from the bottom position. The actual reason is that on grand pianos although you can replay the key without releasing it fully (owing to the double repetition lever), there's still some distance needed by the key to travel back before the double repetition lever does its job. This is aggravated if the repetition needs to be fast because the speed with which the key will bounce back on its own is limited and it needs some time.

I've so far found two solutions to this problem:

1. I try to release the key slightly more before replaying it. This is possible if the speed of the repetition isn't very fast. However if the speed is fast, you simply don't have time to release key too high before replaying it. Which is why I found out a much better solution:

2. This is a variant of the so called "playing off the jack". Let me first start with a fact you might not know: you can play a key and produce a note without actually pressing the key fully to the bottom. You can remove your finger before the key has hit the bottom and the hammer would still have the inertia to hit the "string" with the same velocity. This is usually difficult to master when you need to play lines, etc., however in the specific case of just playing a quick double note (single repetition), you can easily learn a movement where you strike the key with a single downward motion but stopping temporarily at a middle point. I need to draw a picture though, not sure if you get it. It needs a bit of practicing but is very effective.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Chrispy #2846456 05/08/19 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Chrispy
Question on repetition, and this is honestly more of an action question I think. Occasionally while playing a fast repeated note I do "something" and when I hit the key the second time it feels different, like it's sort of stuck and the piano also doesn't play the note. I can't make this happen consistently, but I'm trying to hone in on what I do when it does happen. Perhaps it's striking the key a bit off center? It happens mostly when actually playing my current piece (the second movement of Beethoven's Op 49 No 2, the dotted 8th followed by a 16th) rather than trying to make it happen by testing. I've kind of had it happen on my teachers piano though it feels different, however it also makes no sound.

I'm guessing it's some sort of deficiency of my technique but I'd love to understand the mechanics of what's going on.


I think this might be helpful, Chrispy. Check out this animated grand piano action VIRTUAL ACTION

Look on the shank towards the right and you will see what called a "knuckle" tht is generally made of leather. The L shaped piece right underneath it is called the "jack". The jack is what actually makes the hammer move towards the string. After the hammer builds momentum it flies free away from the jack allowing it to strike the string and get away from the string quickly, allowing the string to vibrate freely. At the same time the jack recovers so we can immediately repeat the note if necessary.

If the jack is not allowed to recover (not lifting our fingers enough to allow for the recovery, for instance) the mechanical action will not reset. This will happen on any piano with a full action.


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Amy C #2846461 05/08/19 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Amy C
P.S., if you are in the Philly area and want to try it out, it's at Cunningham in KOP till this Friday, so make haste!


Congratulations, but I hope you’re also getting compensated for all these people using your piano!

Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Amy C #2846463 05/08/19 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Amy C
The N1X in Hugh's video is actually mine (I ordered it awhile back, finally came in a few days ago!). It's being delivered this Friday.


Hi Amy! Congratulation on getting the N1X. How exciting! Friday is almost here. You are going to have a great weekend for sure. I can’t wait to try one myself as it has gotten glowing reviews. It seems like a wonderful instrument.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2846500 05/08/19 03:07 PM
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A few years ago my partner complained how loud the action was on my Roland when using headphones and i practice 90% of the time with headphones on. So I had to sell my Roland and buy a Kawai VPC1 ,which solved the noisy action problem. Ive been using my VPC1 now 5 years and want to upgrade to a hybrid. So ive started looking so far I tried the Yamaha NU1x and just after 5 mins play the action was unbearably loud so ive crossed it off my list. Next I tried the Kawai NV10 and thought the action wasn't as loud as my old Roland but the pedal action seemed very loud. I haven't tried the Yamaha N1X yet so my question here is just how loud is the action on the keys and pedals in comparison to the Kawai NV10 and the newer Rolands like the LX708.


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Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
Rich Galassini #2846501 05/08/19 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Check out this animated grand piano action VIRTUAL ACTION


Great link thanks! I really wish they had a slider/scrubber so you could slow it down and go back and forth smile


Now learning: Chopin C# minor Nocturne (posth), Mozart Sonata in C K. 545, R. Schumann Fantasy Dance, Joplin The Chrysanthemum
Instruments: Yamaha N1X, Kawai ES110, Roland GO:PIANO, Piano de Voyage
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
daz100 #2846506 05/08/19 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by daz100
A few years ago my partner complained how loud the action was on my Roland when using headphones and i practice 90% of the time with headphones on. So I had to sell my Roland and buy a Kawai VPC1 ,which solved the noisy action problem. Ive been using my VPC1 now 5 years and want to upgrade to a hybrid. So ive started looking so far I tried the Yamaha NU1x and just after 5 mins play the action was unbearably loud so ive crossed it off my list. Next I tried the Kawai NV10 and thought the action wasn't as loud as my old Roland but the pedal action seemed very loud. I haven't tried the Yamaha N1X yet so my question here is just how loud is the action on the keys and pedals in comparison to the Kawai NV10 and the newer Rolands like the LX708.


Hi daz,

I just went to an NU1x and then played the N1x a few feet away (Hi Amy smile ). Both instruments were turned off so I was paying attention only to how audible the action was. There is a marked difference between the two. The NU1x is louder. I believe it is because of the placement of the rail that stops the hammer. The rail is just behind the front board and it is in my face. Also, the cabinet is smaller and less insulated than the NU1x. Having said that, I have a large number of clients who play the NU1x with headphones and have no complaints at all.

Full disclosure - I dropped Roland to pick up Yamaha in 2016 and the Clavinova actions then were noticeably quieter than the LX-15 at the time. I have only played the latest Rolands at NAMM and we are still very happy with our choice. Frankly though, I was not listening to this detail in the action. I was concerned with the tone and touch only.

My 2 cents,


Rich Galassini
Cunningham Piano Co.
Phila., Pa.
(215) 991-0834 direct
rich@cunninghampiano.com
Visit our Online Store
The Science Channel documents our piano restoration
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
David B #2846512 05/08/19 04:30 PM
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I haven’t compared them side by side but I had a NU1X for a month and now the N1X. They are all VERY noisy. My wife isn’t very happy smile


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Yamaha AvantGrand N1X - Hands On
CyberGene #2846516 05/08/19 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by CyberGene
I haven’t compared them side by side but I had a NU1X for a month and now the N1X. They are all VERY noisy. My wife isn’t very happy smile


What made you sell/return the nuix?

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