Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
94 registered members (Antihero, 5150917069, Animisha, atamgp, Barly, 5penguins, AlphaBravoCharlie, Ankee, 21 invisible), 2,802 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Angular positioning of upright piano in corner of room [Re: Supply] #1799135
12/01/11 10:10 PM
12/01/11 10:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Portland, OR
J
jivemutha Offline
500 Post Club Member
jivemutha  Offline
500 Post Club Member
J

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 528
Portland, OR
"What does better mean?" "Better" would mean there's pretty much universal agreement that an angled position is or is not preferable, much as there is agreement that a "C" series Yamaha sounds "better" than a "G" series or that a Mason & Hamlin sounds "better" than a Young Chang. My sense is that the comments in this thread (including your own) suggest that while angling the piano will indeed change the sound, it won't do so in a way that everyone would agree is more pleasing to most ears (or less so). In such cases, I agree with your advice--'sounds like I'll need to try both. Thank you.

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items, digital piano dolly, music theme party goods
Re: Angular positioning of upright piano in corner of room [Re: doremi] #1799162
12/01/11 11:21 PM
12/01/11 11:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,821
The Heart of Screenland
K
KurtZ Offline
1000 Post Club Member
KurtZ  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,821
The Heart of Screenland
Bass waves build up (increased by approximately 3db over along a flat wall and 6 db over free space) in corners causing muddy sound. This is why many studio monitors half equalizer switiches to compensate for speaker placement. Listen, on an upright 3db more bass might not be so bad. If it feels too muddy and you want to clean it up try a product like this:

Sound Column

[Linked Image]

It slips over a mic stand and you raise or lower it to adjust the sound. For example it may sound best all the way down behind the piano or it might to better to be raised to the mid-way between the wall and the ceiling. Functionally, the flutes help scatter (a good thing, really) the treble waves which tend to be beamy. The dense foam "eats" the echoes between the 1/4 space walls causing the muddy bass build up. It and the mic stand would probably be about $100. There are other products out there including foam corner wedges but many are much more expensive and the foam triangular columns lack the adjustability and I really think that in this case a freestanding pillar or tube trap has an advantage over corner blocks. I've heard a different circular tube trap behind a reflective plaster wall and a bass amp; the result was a quite marked improvement in clarity.

Kurt



**********************************************************************************************************
Co-owner (by marriage) and part time customer service rep at an electronic musical equipment repair shop.
Re: Angular positioning of upright piano in corner of room [Re: KurtZ] #1799229
12/02/11 02:15 AM
12/02/11 02:15 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,205
Nor California Sacramento area
D
Dale Fox Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Dale Fox  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,205
Nor California Sacramento area
Originally Posted by KurtZ
Bass waves build up (increased by approximately 3db over along a flat wall and 6 db over free space) in corners causing muddy sound. This is why many studio monitors half equalizer switiches to compensate for speaker placement. Listen, on an upright 3db more bass might not be so bad. If it feels too muddy and you want to clean it up try a product like this:

Sound Column

[Linked Image]

It slips over a mic stand and you raise or lower it to adjust the sound. For example it may sound best all the way down behind the piano or it might to better to be raised to the mid-way between the wall and the ceiling. Functionally, the flutes help scatter (a good thing, really) the treble waves which tend to be beamy. The dense foam "eats" the echoes between the 1/4 space walls causing the muddy bass build up. It and the mic stand would probably be about $100. There are other products out there including foam corner wedges but many are much more expensive and the foam triangular columns lack the adjustability and I really think that in this case a freestanding pillar or tube trap has an advantage over corner blocks. I've heard a different circular tube trap behind a reflective plaster wall and a bass amp; the result was a quite marked improvement in clarity.

Kurt



If you could elaborate on what you mean I'd be interested to learn. You say that Bass waves build up (increased by approximately 3db over along a flat wall and 6 db over free space) in corners causing muddy sound. This would indicate some sort of amplification, in that the DB level increases.

I understand that the placement of the piano could create some audio conflicts that could be described as creating a muddy bass or something of the sort. I do not understand where the amplification comes from since there is no additional energy being fed into the sound level from another source. I'm sure there is a fine explanation that I am unaware of, not being a studio recording person.


Dale Fox
Registered Piano Technician
Remanufacturing/Rebuilding
Re: Angular positioning of upright piano in corner of room [Re: doremi] #2846363
05/08/19 09:35 AM
05/08/19 09:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 108
UK
J
Jt2nd Offline
Full Member
Jt2nd  Offline
Full Member
J

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 108
UK
What a shame this conversation was so short .I think the "problem would begin with a piano in a square room with the sound projecting straight across to the opposite wall . For a grand piano with lid raised (not always stated here) the lid will project sound sideways to the opposite wall and if the wall surface was hard and flat it would reflect back and create interference patterns .So angling the piano (keyboard ) would break up the interference patterns .(Imagine those invisible patterns). If the lid angle can be varied (up or down ) then the floor surface or carpet would become involved. Contrast an echoing concrete cell with a shop selling wool . Each wall covered in shelves full of bails of wool . From the severe answers here we could be chastised for asking if one is better than the other . A kinder approach would suggest something between the two extremes would be preferable. Choose your own definition of preferable here .
Surfaces with a mixture of hard and flat with some absorbent areas would improve things. Reach for a thesaurus to define "improve " and "things ".
Angled wall surfaces (ie not parrallel ) may act like prismatic angles on a diamond .(I like that idea ). Not many rooms are built like that however .
In the case of an upright , the wall behind the piano can be compared to the lid of an upright .So the sound will be less muffled by a close solid wall if one end is pulled away from the wall .Preferably the bass note end outwards ? Good question . In a grand piano the bass notes are tucked up close to the lid hinge . So try the treble end out from the wall . For an upright the parrallel wall might not be such a nuisance .(Look up "Might "and also "Nuisance "in your favourite dictionary .) If you had the permission it would be interesting to play a piano in the Whispering Gallery in St Paul`s Cathedral . Walls have ears .

Re: Angular positioning of upright piano in corner of room [Re: doremi] #2846509
05/08/19 03:57 PM
05/08/19 03:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,658
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,658
North Vancouver
We placed a fair sized carpet in the piano room.It has really
improved the sound. Being not too far from the corner wall
and having low ceilings made the sound too overwhelming .
While moving the carpet the piano ended up in the middle
of the room.The piano sounded wonderful.
Having the carpet in the room really has helped "hearing the
piano "It is now about 4 inches from the wall.I do not think I
could persuade anyone at home that I should centre it in the
middle of the room ?

Re: Angular positioning of upright piano in corner of room [Re: doremi] #2846653
05/09/19 04:07 AM
05/09/19 04:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,371
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
1000 Post Club Member
backto_study_piano  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,371
Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by doremi
Will it sound better?

Yes, or at least different.

My last home, very small living room with upright YAMAHA UX (YUS5 size), lots of furnishings, heavy carpet, curtains etc, and the piano had to go in the corner and sounded "dull".

After enduring this for a while, I experimented and moved the bass end out about 6" and I could hear the bass more accentuated, but still nothing like as bright as I wanted. So, I swapped, with the RH side out another 4 or 5" - and it sounded more like I wanted it.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Angular positioning of upright piano in corner of room [Re: doremi] #2846667
05/09/19 06:27 AM
05/09/19 06:27 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,228
Scotland
Beemer Offline
Bronze Subscriber
Beemer  Offline
Bronze Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,228
Scotland
Originally Posted by doremi
Will it sound better?

Without your response this thread has wandered. Are you saying that you are not able to experiment with the angle yourself? Is your corner preference to display the instrument or to achieve a particular sound result?
As has already been said corner position for pianos or loudspeakers is not ideal as bass frequencies are boosted and will create an unnatural balance with the treble.
To correct some comments from others in this thread, upright pianos are not "placed against a wall". They should be at least 8" (20cm) from it but again experimentation on this distance is advisable to minimise reflection boosting the treble. A sound absorbing pad on the wall at the treble area can help.

Ian


I'm all keyed up
2016 Bl├╝thner Model A
Re: Angular positioning of upright piano in corner of room [Re: doremi] #2846896
05/09/19 10:01 PM
05/09/19 10:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,658
North Vancouver
L
Lady Bird Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Lady Bird  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 2,658
North Vancouver
Walls have ears alright !

This is a ghost thread we are responding to., OK ! ,Now lets go down the" Whispering Gallery"

Last edited by Lady Bird; 05/09/19 10:02 PM. Reason: missing word
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Ken Knapp, Piano World 

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Does playing make a difference?
by David Boyce. 10/21/19 05:11 AM
Database error since yesterday
by keystring. 10/21/19 12:23 AM
It's all about the bass, baby
by Emery Wang. 10/20/19 11:59 PM
Visual Piano book series
by bridgepin. 10/20/19 09:07 PM
Hey! What if...? (another meta thread)
by malkin. 10/20/19 04:56 PM
What's Hot!!
Our August Newsletter is Out!
------------------
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!

-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics194,638
Posts2,881,552
Members94,725
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1