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Unplayable half-pedal. #2845466
05/05/19 01:59 PM
05/05/19 01:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Poland
E
Engelm Offline OP
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Engelm  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Poland
Hi!

Unfortunately I'm not an advanced piano player and my technique doesn't allow me to play with 'on/of pedaling'. On other piano libraries (I use only CFX Garritan, and Vintage D) I have full control over half pedaling witch works almost the same as in my upright piano. Unfortunately when I use Synchron CFX and push the pedal all the way down then on the interface it shows that I pushed the pedal only in 75 percent. On this range you don't get full sustain effect and you are still able to create semi staccato effect. I tried to fix it by removing material on the bottom of the pedal (It is 'felt'. The same material that you attach to the legs of the chair so it won't make scratches on the wooden floor) which allowed me to push the pedal deeper and it worked. But on the other day when I opened the software I got 75% value again after pushing the pedal all the way down even though it goes deeper than before.

Additional data:
  • I checked the pedal with Pianoteq. It shows that my pedal is capable of using 100% range of the C64 midi input.
  • I tested my pedal with several programs that monitors midi input. I have full range from 0 to 127
  • Pedal that I use - Roland Dp-10
  • Keyboard that I use - Studiologic SL-73 (It has two sockets for continuous sustain and both of them render the same effect)
  • Software that I use to run Synchron - Ableton Live Lite 10 which comes with focusrite products.
  • The problem occurs both in drivers Asio4all that is used with build in card, as well as in Focusrite Asio drivers.
  • The problem occurs both on my Pc as well as on Notebook.


Is there any solution for that problem? Any tool for pedal calibration? I'm frustrated because this piano vst is quite expensive and I think I would be much better off buying full version of CFX Garritan which is more playable even in the lite version. Even Vintage D is more playable at this point if you use half-pedaling extensively. And the biggest pain is that Synchron CFX sounds really great and I can imagine that if I hadn't problem with pedal it would be my main instrument.

Last edited by Ken Knapp; 05/07/19 07:01 PM. Reason: Make title more specific to the problem.
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Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845481
05/05/19 02:47 PM
05/05/19 02:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,783
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,783
Originally Posted by Engelm
Hi!

Unfortunately I'm not an advanced piano player and my technique doesn't allow me to play with 'on/of pedaling'. On other piano libraries (I use only CFX Garritan, and Vintage D) I have full control over half pedaling witch works almost the same as in my upright piano. Unfortunately when I use Synchron CFX and push the pedal all the way down then on the interface it shows that I pushed the pedal only in 75 percent. On this range you don't get full sustain effect and you are still able to create semi staccato effect. I tried to fix it by removing material on the bottom of the pedal (It is 'felt'. The same material that you attach to the legs of the chair so it won't make scratches on the wooden floor) which allowed me to push the pedal deeper and it worked. But on the other day when I opened the software I got 75% value again after pushing the pedal all the way down even though it goes deeper than before.

Additional data:
  • I checked the pedal with Pianoteq. It shows that my pedal is capable of using 100% range of the C64 midi input.
  • I tested my pedal with several programs that monitors midi input. I have full range from 0 to 127
  • Pedal that I use - Roland Dp-10
  • Keyboard that I use - Studiologic SL-73 (It has two sockets for continuous sustain and both of them render the same effect)
  • Software that I use to run Synchron - Ableton Live Lite 10 which comes with focusrite products.
  • The problem occurs both in drivers Asio4all that is used with build in card, as well as in Focusrite Asio drivers.
  • The problem occurs both on my Pc as well as on Notebook.


Is there any solution for that problem? Any tool for pedal calibration? I'm frustrated because this piano vst is quite expensive and I think I would be much better off buying full version of CFX Garritan which is more playable even in the lite version. Even Vintage D is more playable at this point if you use half-pedaling extensively. And the biggest pain is that Synchron CFX sounds really great and I can imagine that if I hadn't problem with pedal it would be my main instrument.


The software manufacturer, VSL, is actively monitoring and interacting on their own dedicated forum. Have you tried posting your issues there? Did you get no response there?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845486
05/05/19 02:54 PM
05/05/19 02:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Poland
E
Engelm Offline OP
Junior Member
Engelm  Offline OP
Junior Member
E

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Poland
After over few months I've got no response so far from them. Both via email and forum. That's why I'm looking for help over there. : )

Last edited by Engelm; 05/05/19 02:55 PM.
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845497
05/05/19 03:09 PM
05/05/19 03:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,783
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,783
Originally Posted by Engelm
After over few months I've got no response so far from them. Both via email and forum. That's why I'm looking for help over there. : )

You opened a ticket with them and they never responded? What awful customer service! mad mad

I've been considering either one of Garritan CFX full or VSL Steinway D for my first "sampled" VST. Wow, that is good to know that VSL hasn't been responsive to your problem. They haven't even told you to go away - just ignored you!


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845505
05/05/19 03:16 PM
05/05/19 03:16 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 234
R
RobR Offline
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RobR  Offline
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R

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 234
That's not like them at all. Paul is usually on top of the forum in support. I just checked your thread and it's odd that no one responded to you since March. I would guess he meant to respond but somehow the thread got buried down the bottom of the page and he forgot.

I would send another ticket or bump the thread again.

Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2845523
05/05/19 04:34 PM
05/05/19 04:34 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Poland
E
Engelm Offline OP
Junior Member
Engelm  Offline OP
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E

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Poland
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Engelm
After over few months I've got no response so far from them. Both via email and forum. That's why I'm looking for help over there. : )

You opened a ticket with them and they never responded? What awful customer service! mad mad

I've been considering either one of Garritan CFX full or VSL Steinway D for my first "sampled" VST. Wow, that is good to know that VSL hasn't been responsive to your problem. They haven't even told you to go away - just ignored you!


They have been quite responsive when I had problems with activating the product though. And before buying the Yamaha CFX all my questions and doubts were resolved within one day which is more than ok. I think that my problem is too specific to be resolved in that short period of time and that's why I'm still struggling with it. As for Garritan CFX I've had no experience with customer support so I don't know how it compares to VSL in that regard. Garritan CFX is safe buy in my opinion because it just works flawlessly after installing it. Half pedaling works as it should be. When you technique is heavily focused on repedaling it also works without a problem. It is extremely good product that gives you many options for interpretation of the songs that you are playing. This VST with combination with my midi controller is way more expressive than my accoustic upright piano that I bought for 500$. Garritan CFX is certainly worth every penny. But the product by VSL is even more expressive. When I played bach's inventions that don't require pedaling it sounded like studio recording that you can find on spotify. It is really well made product but without good pedaling support you just can't experience this VST fully and instead of appreciation for all the work to create this amazing product you feel nothing more than dissapointment.

Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845524
05/05/19 04:44 PM
05/05/19 04:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,783
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,783
Originally Posted by Engelm
They have been quite responsive when I had problems with activating the product though. And before buying the Yamaha CFX all my questions and doubts were resolved within one day which is more than ok. I think that my problem is too specific to be resolved in that short period of time and that's why I'm still struggling with it. As for Garritan CFX I've had no experience with customer support so I don't know how it compares to VSL in that regard. Garritan CFX is safe buy in my opinion because it just works flawlessly after installing it. Half pedaling works as it should be. When you technique is heavily focused on repedaling it also works without a problem. It is extremely good product that gives you many options for interpretation of the songs that you are playing. This VST with combination with my midi controller is way more expressive than my accoustic upright piano that I bought for 500$. Garritan CFX is certainly worth every penny. But the product by VSL is even more expressive. When I played bach's inventions that don't require pedaling it sounded like studio recording that you can find on spotify. It is really well made product but without good pedaling support you just can't experience this VST fully and instead of appreciation for all the work to create this amazing product you feel nothing more than dissapointment.

Well, you should do what RobR just suggested and "bump" your old thread about this issue on the VSL forum, in case he just overlooked or forgot about it.

In any case, it sounds like I should really just stick with Garritan CFX full as my first sampled VST with the CyberGene patch, and the wait until these issues with VSL get "eventually" resolved.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845530
05/05/19 05:32 PM
05/05/19 05:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 19
C
composingkeys3 Offline
Junior Member
composingkeys3  Offline
Junior Member
C

Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 19
Hi Engelm,

I'm sorry to hear you didn't get any response back from VSL. I would definitely suggest contacting them again as they are usually very good at getting back to any issues or questions. You can also contact us at ILIO. We are VSL's distributor for North and South America and help with support by emailing at support@ilio.com. For phone support, our phone number is 818-707-3655 and here is our hours: https://ilio.com/support

What you are describing sounds like it is a hardware issue with the sustain pedal not sending properly the full value from 1-127. Some pianos for example respond to sustain with an either on or off and not per value. I would suggest recording a midi part and see what your DAW is showing for the CC64 on the controller lane and see if that matches what the Synchron Player is showing on the Sustain. A screenshot could be helpful of that. You could also give us a call and we can take a look with you via screen-share.

Last edited by composingkeys3; 05/05/19 05:33 PM.

Austin
Sales and Technical Support
ILIO
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845531
05/05/19 05:41 PM
05/05/19 05:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,995
France
Frédéric L Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Frédéric L  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,995
France
The CC64 values are already been tested :

I tested my pedal with several programs that monitors midi input. I have full range from 0 to 127

Then it must be something else. It seems very strange.


Yamaha CLP150, Bechstein Digital Grand, Garritan CFX, Ivory II pianos, Galaxy pianos, EWQL Pianos, Native-Instrument The Definitive Piano Collection, Soniccouture Hammersmith, Truekeys, Pianoteq
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845535
05/05/19 05:52 PM
05/05/19 05:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,669
Hobart, Australia
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ando Offline
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ando  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,669
Hobart, Australia
Have you tried another pedal? What are you using as your master keyboard? Are you able to calibrate your pedal through your controller? You need to rule out a hardware problem with your pedal before you escalate this complaint with the software company.

Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Frédéric L] #2845536
05/05/19 05:52 PM
05/05/19 05:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 19
C
composingkeys3 Offline
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composingkeys3  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 19
That does seem very odd. Are you on the newest version of the Synchron Pianos Player Build 1.1.1247? I can confirm in my own DAW that that range works as intended. It does still sound like a hardware based issue and not software. If you need further support, contact VSL or ILIO directly.

Last edited by composingkeys3; 05/05/19 05:57 PM.

Austin
Sales and Technical Support
ILIO
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845540
05/05/19 06:09 PM
05/05/19 06:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 263
G
Grazilerimba Offline
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Grazilerimba  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 263
Hi, this is a strange issue. Ok, so here is the very obvious thing to try first, did you go into the options screen and activate some kind of setting regarding to the pedal? I remember that I didn't have half pedaling at first, but I had to go into a settings menu and flip a switch first, and then I would be able to change the pedal settings in the main window and it would actuallly have an effect. I forgot what the name of the setting was and where to find it (haven't launched this bad boy in like half a year LOL)

I have had good experiences with VSL's service. I never posted on their forums though. But whenever I had a problem, I would always get swift responses via Email. Same with Garritan by the way. There is certainly nothing wrong with sticking with the Garritan CFX for the time being, it is still one of the best, perhaps even the best sampled pianos IMHO.

You can despise VSL for their copy protection and for their policies regarding the licenses and the dongles (and for not fixing the Vienna Imperial's out of tune notes!!), but the customer support as such has been top notch in my experience, and Paul Kopf in particular is very friendly and takes plenty of time when needed.

Last edited by Grazilerimba; 05/05/19 06:12 PM.
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845561
05/05/19 07:20 PM
05/05/19 07:20 PM
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 669
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karvala Offline
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This is a curious problem. A few comments/questions based on what has been reported:-

1. It is an idiosyncratic problem; this isn't an inherent problem of the VSL CFX, or it would have been experienced and reported by other users, and no such reports are present. It works fine for me

2. The fact that the removal of the felt and consequent ability to push the pedal further down made a difference certainly suggests a hardware problem of some sort.

3. How much was the pedal tested with Pianoteq or other midi programs? Is it possible that the pedal happened to be working then, as it was for some of the time with the VSL CFX?

4. I assume that the continuous pedal box has been checked in the VSL interface?

5. The VSL pedal uses the CC64 value for half-pedalling, starting at 26 and ending at 102; these values are hard-coded.

6. The bottom line is that the only thing the VSL CFX can use to control the pedal value you see in the interface is the CC64 value. If it's showing 75%, that's the CC64 value it is receiving. Somewhere between you pressing the pedal and the VSL CFX interface receiving it, the value is being limited to something like 95. It sounds like it's limited in the hardware judging from 2. above, but in any case it may be worth trying an alternative DAW just to rule that out.

7. It may also be worth using something like VSTHost and checking the midi values directly at that time they are then being piped into VSL CFX. It would also be worth experimenting with using VSTHost to remap the CC64 midi values 30-78 to output 30-126 (with every second value missed) and seeing what effect that has.


Broadwood, Yamaha U1; Kawai CA67; Pianoteq Std (D4, K2, Blüthner, Grotrian), Garritan CFX Full, Galaxy Vintage D, The Grandeur, Ravenscroft 275, Ivory II ACD, TrueKeys Italian, AS C7, Production Grand Compact, AK Studio Grand, AK Upright, Waves Grand Rhapsody; Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-650, O2 amp
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845781
05/06/19 01:52 PM
05/06/19 01:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Poland
E
Engelm Offline OP
Junior Member
Engelm  Offline OP
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E

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 13
Poland
Thank you for all the answers. Now I'm 100 positive that the problem lies in pedal itself. I used onlini midi tester and it shows that i can't reach values higher than 94-96. So the only solution would be remapping.

Quote
It may also be worth using something like VSTHost and checking the midi values directly at that time they are then being piped into VSL CFX. It would also be worth experimenting with using VSTHost to remap the CC64 midi values 30-78 to output 30-126 (with every second value missed) and seeing what effect that has.


Do you know maybe other tools that will allow me to remap cc64 values? I installed VSTHost and this piece of software is just too owerwhelming for me. : )

Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845812
05/06/19 03:27 PM
05/06/19 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 1,275
Varna
N
newer player Online content
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Varna
Good news Engelm.

You should ask the moderators to change the thread title, which is unfair to VSL. You have no problem with VSL but rather a problem with a broken piece of unrelated hardware. Thanks.

Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2845910
05/06/19 10:04 PM
05/06/19 10:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 226
PA
puremusic Offline
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You might want to break out a screwdriver and take apart that pedal and see if there's something obviously wrong with it.

I've got a DP-10, though I don't have this library, it works fine for the full range in Vienna Instruments at least.


Roland FP-90 - Touchkeys - TEC BC - MIDI Expression
Kontakt - Arturia Piano V - Sonivox Eighty-Eight - Spitfire Symphony Orchestra

whitepianos.blogspot.com
Re: Synchron Yamaha CFX - Unplayable half-pedal. Waste of Money! [Re: Engelm] #2846004
05/07/19 07:39 AM
05/07/19 07:39 AM
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angmyu Offline
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I think you need to change the title.


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