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Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? #2845479
05/05/19 02:46 PM
05/05/19 02:46 PM
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TylerMorgan1 Offline OP
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I just purchased a Kawai MP11SE (upgraded from a Yamaha DGX650 that I have had for around 4 years). I really like the sound and feel of it, but from the day I bought it I noticed some pretty intense static noise when played through headphones, especially with the master volume above the bare minimum audible level (1/4 master level and above). It is VERY noticeable if the master volume slider is halfway or above. The noise is similar to the noise a guitar tube amp makes when it is cranked loud (without playing), but the Kawai static has a bit more variation / oscillation with its noise, so it is not completely static. It makes this noise with all headphones (my primary headphones are Sennheiser 202), and the noise does not change in response to moving the headphone cord, so it doesn't seem to be anything with the headphones or cord. I also think there are times when the noise isn't present at all, and times when it seems to appear out nowhere. It also does not make this static noise when playing through XLR out or when I record straight to USB and play back on my computer through the same headphones).

I've been playing at low volume to avoid noticing the static, but I just wanted to get your opinions on the matter. Has anyone else noticed this with their Kawai? Does anyone have an idea of what might be causing this and how easy it is to fix? I really like the Kawai and don't really want to return it for such a minor thing, but since I will be primarily playing through headphones, I would love for there to be an easy fix for this. My Yamaha DGX650 never has any static at ANY volume, so this is new to me and I suspect that there is either a defect with the Kawai or there is potentially some sort of electrical interference with the outlet I have the Kawai plugged into. The Kawai is plugged into a different outlet than the Yamaha, and I have not tried to use the outlet that I used for the Yamaha, since the Kawai is a bit hefty to move around. But I could probably try this if it electrical interference with the current outlet is likely to blame.

Your help is much appreciated on this!

Tyler

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Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845507
05/05/19 03:20 PM
05/05/19 03:20 PM
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Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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I know the thing weighs a ton, but might be worth trying to see if it's an issue with that outlet. If that doesn't work, it's definitely worth contacting Kawai tech support.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845539
05/05/19 06:08 PM
05/05/19 06:08 PM
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New York, NY, USA
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I purchased my MP11SE about a month ago and use the headphones all the time, don't have any static or noise issues at all. My dealer told me that most of his customers buy the MP11SE as a quiet alternative to their accoustic grand pianos so they can play without bothering the neighbors, so that in itself leads me to believe that if you're experiencing issues it's definitely something you need to bring up to kawai support about since it's not normal.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845550
05/05/19 06:40 PM
05/05/19 06:40 PM
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Abdol Offline
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Originally Posted by TylerMorgan1
I just purchased a Kawai MP11SE (upgraded from a Yamaha DGX650 that I have had for around 4 years). I really like the sound and feel of it, but from the day I bought it I noticed some pretty intense static noise when played through headphones, especially with the master volume above the bare minimum audible level (1/4 master level and above). It is VERY noticeable if the master volume slider is halfway or above. The noise is similar to the noise a guitar tube amp makes when it is cranked loud (without playing), but the Kawai static has a bit more variation / oscillation with its noise, so it is not completely static. It makes this noise with all headphones (my primary headphones are Sennheiser 202), and the noise does not change in response to moving the headphone cord, so it doesn't seem to be anything with the headphones or cord. I also think there are times when the noise isn't present at all, and times when it seems to appear out nowhere. It also does not make this static noise when playing through XLR out or when I record straight to USB and play back on my computer through the same headphones).

I've been playing at low volume to avoid noticing the static, but I just wanted to get your opinions on the matter. Has anyone else noticed this with their Kawai? Does anyone have an idea of what might be causing this and how easy it is to fix? I really like the Kawai and don't really want to return it for such a minor thing, but since I will be primarily playing through headphones, I would love for there to be an easy fix for this. My Yamaha DGX650 never has any static at ANY volume, so this is new to me and I suspect that there is either a defect with the Kawai or there is potentially some sort of electrical interference with the outlet I have the Kawai plugged into. The Kawai is plugged into a different outlet than the Yamaha, and I have not tried to use the outlet that I used for the Yamaha, since the Kawai is a bit hefty to move around. But I could probably try this if it electrical interference with the current outlet is likely to blame.

Your help is much appreciated on this!

Tyler



Are you using more than one USB device? and do you still have the static noise if you disconnect your USB cable?


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845554
05/05/19 06:47 PM
05/05/19 06:47 PM
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Pennsylvania
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dmd Offline
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You need to plug the MP11SE into the outlet the Yamaha is plugged into.

Maybe an extension cord would suffice instead of moving the MP11SE.

I would definitely contact the dealer or Kawai.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845600
05/05/19 10:46 PM
05/05/19 10:46 PM
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Posts: 365
Punta Alta, Buenos Aires, Arge...
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Marcos Daniel Offline
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My MP11 (without SE) has a noise when is sending MIDI to my laptop (I don't care because I use Pianoteq but once I noticed that). I don't know if it is because of this particular PC, or something general.


Pianoteq / Kawai CL 35 & MP11 / Old 1920's Upright Zimmerman
Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845602
05/05/19 10:52 PM
05/05/19 10:52 PM
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Hawai'i Island
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It sounds like you've eliminated anything external to the piano, like a bad cord etc. Sad to say then, but this sounds like what a 'cold joint' on the circuit board might do. Specifically, in the amplification chain to output to the headphones. Not sure how familiar you are with electronics, but a cold joint happens when not enough heat to was applied during the soldering process for the pins being soldered to come up to the melting point of the solder. This can leave a working, but extremely fragile solder joint, that any movement or even just thermal expansion/contraction can break. The piano probably passed inspection and then the cold joint manifested itself later.
Assuming there is nothing wrong with the headphones, then I think you'll have ship it for repairs, unless you are comfortable doing surface mount circuit board work. Of course, if it's under warranty still, you don't want to touch it. Just send it back. I just got one of these myself and the headphone output has no problems, so far anyway.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: Abdol] #2845607
05/05/19 11:18 PM
05/05/19 11:18 PM
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Posts: 32
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TylerMorgan1 Offline OP
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Most of the time I don't have any USB devices connected, so I don't think there are any USB issues.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: BigIslandGuy] #2845611
05/05/19 11:25 PM
05/05/19 11:25 PM
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TylerMorgan1 Offline OP
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Originally Posted by BigIslandGuy
It sounds like you've eliminated anything external to the piano, like a bad cord etc. Sad to say then, but this sounds like what a 'cold joint' on the circuit board might do. Specifically, in the amplification chain to output to the headphones. Not sure how familiar you are with electronics, but a cold joint happens when not enough heat to was applied during the soldering process for the pins being soldered to come up to the melting point of the solder. This can leave a working, but extremely fragile solder joint, that any movement or even just thermal expansion/contraction can break. The piano probably passed inspection and then the cold joint manifested itself later.
Assuming there is nothing wrong with the headphones, then I think you'll have ship it for repairs, unless you are comfortable doing surface mount circuit board work. Of course, if it's under warranty still, you don't want to touch it. Just send it back. I just got one of these myself and the headphone output has no problems, so far anyway.


I think this may be the problem. I decided to record the MP11SE into my audio interface from the headphone jack as a demonstration. See the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB64SzaKTo0&feature=youtu.be

One thing that was very surprising was that I could actually jiggle the cord a bit and get the static to toggle on and off. This was impossible with my headphones...there was no way to disable the static. There is nothing wrong with either the cable or my headphones, so it looks like it is the piano here.

BigIslandGuy: You obviously know way more about electronics than I do. Can you please watch the video and tell me if what you are describing corresponds to the video? Note that the initial static is just the gain from the USB interface. I jiggle the cord at 0:08 and initiate the Kawai buzzing sound (it's obvious when you hear it).

Again, your help is very much appreciated!

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845619
05/05/19 11:46 PM
05/05/19 11:46 PM
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Hawai'i Island
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BigIslandGuy Offline
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Originally Posted by TylerMorgan1
Originally Posted by BigIslandGuy
It sounds like you've eliminated anything external to the piano, like a bad cord etc. Sad to say then, but this sounds like what a 'cold joint' on the circuit board might do. Specifically, in the amplification chain to output to the headphones. Not sure how familiar you are with electronics, but a cold joint happens when not enough heat to was applied during the soldering process for the pins being soldered to come up to the melting point of the solder. This can leave a working, but extremely fragile solder joint, that any movement or even just thermal expansion/contraction can break. The piano probably passed inspection and then the cold joint manifested itself later.
Assuming there is nothing wrong with the headphones, then I think you'll have ship it for repairs, unless you are comfortable doing surface mount circuit board work. Of course, if it's under warranty still, you don't want to touch it. Just send it back. I just got one of these myself and the headphone output has no problems, so far anyway.


I think this may be the problem. I decided to record the MP11SE into my audio interface from the headphone jack as a demonstration. See the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB64SzaKTo0&feature=youtu.be

One thing that was very surprising was that I could actually jiggle the cord a bit and get the static to toggle on and off. This was impossible with my headphones...there was no way to disable the static. There is nothing wrong with either the cable or my headphones, so it looks like it is the piano here.

BigIslandGuy: You obviously know way more about electronics than I do. Can you please watch the video and tell me if what you are describing corresponds to the video? Note that the initial static is just the gain from the USB interface. I jiggle the cord at 0:08 and initiate the Kawai buzzing sound (it's obvious when you hear it).

Again, your help is very much appreciated!

Hmm.. that's odd that you can get it to change with the interface cord but not the headphones. If it's internal to the piano, you'd think it'd be the same because the piano has no notion what's on the other end of the cord.The noise does sound like something is losing its ground connection. Just curious, what happens if you use a different patch cord with the USB interface? If it still gets noises, I'd say there's a 99% chance it is something in the piano. I'm assuming that none of these devices are using an adapter at the piano end to fit its 1/4" phone jack?

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845683
05/06/19 07:26 AM
05/06/19 07:26 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 1,181
Europe
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arc7urus Offline
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Originally Posted by TylerMorgan1
I think this may be the problem. I decided to record the MP11SE into my audio interface from the headphone jack as a demonstration. See the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB64SzaKTo0&feature=youtu.be

One thing that was very surprising was that I could actually jiggle the cord a bit and get the static to toggle on and off. This was impossible with my headphones...there was no way to disable the static. There is nothing wrong with either the cable or my headphones, so it looks like it is the piano here.

BigIslandGuy: You obviously know way more about electronics than I do. Can you please watch the video and tell me if what you are describing corresponds to the video? Note that the initial static is just the gain from the USB interface. I jiggle the cord at 0:08 and initiate the Kawai buzzing sound (it's obvious when you hear it).

Again, your help is very much appreciated!

This seems a grounding issue on the mp11 electric circuits. I would definitely ask for technical support since keeping this electrical issue unresolved could lead to other problems later.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845694
05/06/19 08:10 AM
05/06/19 08:10 AM
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Sweden
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Nip Offline
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What I have found over the years is that tolerances of 1/4" plugs - mail and femail - can be a bit different from one brand to the other. Especially stereo ones. The ring part may start later and tounge part in femail does not make proper contact as intended.

So the plug you use to connect to interface might be different. And you also discovered that bending that one could make contact. See if on one channel - left or right and which one is failing.

Try something as simple as phone extension chord and see if different.

Otherwise bending tounge inside piano with a screw driver just a tiny bit towards center can make it work. But turn off power while doing this, and really careful.

Unless phones work well on another device, like audio interface, it can even be cords about to break. The very last before breaking can be like that. But usually bending phone plug cord a bit usually expose the problem. It's really, really thin cords in phones.

Really old connectors can be malicious in that corrosion also creep into inner parts - and I've had those that just go away causing hum - and not - come and go - then suddenly ok again. Only fix for this was to replace connector.

Just a few ideas anyway....

Last edited by Nip; 05/06/19 08:13 AM.

Kawai MP7SE
Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: Nip] #2845800
05/06/19 02:52 PM
05/06/19 02:52 PM
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Hawai'i Island
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Originally Posted by Nip
What I have found over the years is that tolerances of 1/4" plugs - mail and femail - can be a bit different from one brand to the other. Especially stereo ones. The ring part may start later and tounge part in femail does not make proper contact as intended.

So the plug you use to connect to interface might be different. And you also discovered that bending that one could make contact. See if on one channel - left or right and which one is failing.

Try something as simple as phone extension chord and see if different.

Otherwise bending tounge inside piano with a screw driver just a tiny bit towards center can make it work. But turn off power while doing this, and really careful.

Unless phones work well on another device, like audio interface, it can even be cords about to break. The very last before breaking can be like that. But usually bending phone plug cord a bit usually expose the problem. It's really, really thin cords in phones.

Really old connectors can be malicious in that corrosion also creep into inner parts - and I've had those that just go away causing hum - and not - come and go - then suddenly ok again. Only fix for this was to replace connector.

Just a few ideas anyway....

+1

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845811
05/06/19 03:22 PM
05/06/19 03:22 PM
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Posts: 175
Vancouver, BC
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NormB Offline
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And if jiggling the headphone jack affects your 'static' at all, there's always contact cleaner. MG Chemicals 409B is an effective one. You could play it safe and just spray the jack, then insert/reinsert a half dozen times...

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: NormB] #2845834
05/06/19 05:03 PM
05/06/19 05:03 PM
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Posts: 5,073
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Originally Posted by NormB
And if jiggling the headphone jack affects your 'static' at all, there's always contact cleaner. MG Chemicals 409B is an effective one. You could play it safe and just spray the jack, then insert/reinsert a half dozen times...


+1. Sometimes it's your turn to be lucky. Contact cleaner is, by far, the cheapest and simplest thing that might work.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: Charles Cohen] #2845863
05/06/19 06:46 PM
05/06/19 06:46 PM
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dmd Offline
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
Originally Posted by NormB
And if jiggling the headphone jack affects your 'static' at all, there's always contact cleaner. MG Chemicals 409B is an effective one. You could play it safe and just spray the jack, then insert/reinsert a half dozen times...


+1. Sometimes it's your turn to be lucky. Contact cleaner is, by far, the cheapest and simplest thing that might work.




Absolutely.

Also, I would swap (exchange) out as many things as necessary to rule out each of the other devices before looking for the issue to be with the MP11SE.

To me, the MP11SE is the least likely to be the problem.


Don

Kawai MP11SE, Edifier R1850DB Active Bookshelf Speakers, Yamaha HS8S Powered Subwoofer, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones, Pianoteq and numerous other VSTs
Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845938
05/07/19 12:08 AM
05/07/19 12:08 AM
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TylerMorgan1 Offline OP
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OK, thanks for all of your suggestions! This forum is such a great place for things like this. I may try the contact cleaner. Ultimately I think it’s gonna be tough to ship the Kawai back for a replacement. I’ve already grown attached to it and don’t want to have to box it up and wait for another. Too much of a hassle for a minor nuisance. If after a year it is still bothering me, I think I’ll ship it to Kawai under the one-year warranty. I’ll have to eat the initial shipping cost, but I think I’m prepared to risk it at this point.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845940
05/07/19 12:12 AM
05/07/19 12:12 AM
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TylerMorgan1 Offline OP
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Also, perhaps it is worth mentioning that all of my headphones use a 1/4 adapter. The HOSA 1/4 cable (i.e., no adapter required) in the video was the only cable that could play without static, so I wonder if there is some interplay with the adapters. I still think the Kawai is partly to blame, since the headphones work fine with the Yamaha, but perhaps the quality control at Kawai uses headphones with a 1/4 plug and would not pick up on adapter issues. Just another thought.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845944
05/07/19 12:43 AM
05/07/19 12:43 AM
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As noted above by several people, some of the 1/4" plugs are not consistent due to manufacturing variances, sloppy workmanship, metric-imperial measurements.

Your video implies you get the same sound by pulling cable slightly out of interface.

I think you should try a few different brand 1/4 headphones or 1/4 adapters-cable extenders. You also might try just gently pulling your current cable out of the kawai jack say 1mm and playing. Try 2mm. Try 3mm.

Could also be the Kawai jack has some bent or poorly placed contacts that you can DIY fix pretty easily or just have a local tech fix. Don't get electrocuted!

In all cases use caution with ears as something is wonky; I just put the headphones on the desk in front of me for testing purposes.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Headphone Static? [Re: TylerMorgan1] #2845985
05/07/19 06:01 AM
05/07/19 06:01 AM
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Posts: 15,606
Hamamatsu, Japan
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Hello Tyler,

Please try removing all additional devices connected to the MP11SE, so that you're left with just the GFP-3 pedals and the headphones. Do you still hear the noise?
Also, I notice that you have the Line In volume fader set to approximately 50% - please try setting this fader to the minimum level. Do you still hear the noise?

If so, please contact Kawai America for technical assistance.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
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