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Music Stand Too High #2845013 05/04/19 06:58 AM
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On my new to me Steinway A3, I find the music stand too high. It's several inches higher than it was on my upright. I thought I would get used to it quickly, but it ends up bothering my neck after playing for a while. I've thought of raising my seat, but then my arms wouldn't be quite horizontal enough. I can rest the music a little lower, on a horizontal support, but this doesn't seem like the proper solution. Has anyone experienced this? Any good solutions?

For reference, I'm 5'10", the piano is on cups which only raise the height minimally.


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845026 05/04/19 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
On my new to me Steinway A3, I find the music stand too high. It's several inches higher than it was on my upright. I thought I would get used to it quickly, but it ends up bothering my neck after playing for a while. I've thought of raising my seat, but then my arms wouldn't be quite horizontal enough. I can rest the music a little lower, on a horizontal support, but this doesn't seem like the proper solution. Has anyone experienced this? Any good solutions?

For reference, I'm 5'10", the piano is on cups which only raise the height minimally.

Yes, a grand's music rest is higher - I'm about the same height as you.

I have my bench set as high as it would go (and my teacher with Taubman method got me even higher, with an extra pad (cut up yoga pad under a sheepskin cover). But I took the cups out too - as they also affected my ankle with the pedal causing considerable pain.

I'm also a Pipe Organist - and many music racks on organs are quite high.

Not sure if you need reading glasses - I had special bi-focals made with the lenses set different from normal to compensate. Multi-focal glasses are the worst, as they force you to look through the bottom of the lens, and to do that, you put excessive stress on your neck and shoulders.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845042 05/04/19 09:06 AM
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I had to adjust when I went from my DP to my grand. The grand's music stand is definitely higher.

You should not have to tilt your head back (thus leading to neck discomfort). You should be able to sit straight with head, neck and back aligned. If you have vision correction, you might need to look into that as mentioned above. Otherwise you will need to raise your bench a bit. It's my understanding that one's forearm doesn't need to be strictly horizontal; the elbow an inch or so above the horizontal works well.


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845089 05/04/19 10:55 AM
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Others have offered some good suggestions. I also wonder if it is related to your vision. Even if you are not using or need corrective lenses as was suggested, playing with the position of the desk, front to back, may relieve tension in your neck and shoulders. I would explore that, too.

For most people, your elbow should be above your wrist. You may need to make several adjustments to gain comfort.


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845097 05/04/19 11:09 AM
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Thanks - I do wear glasses but have not had vision problems at the piano. I may work on raising the bench a little.


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845171 05/04/19 03:42 PM
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Hi. You can check it out:

https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/basaro/item/10002510/

Works greatly for me.


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845221 05/04/19 05:53 PM
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cmb13, I know you are thinking of having a piano party. Just to let you know, this is probably the number one "complaint" at our piano parties, from those that play uprights or digitals. They have trouble adjusting to the grand music desk. So you are not alone. But it's a good problem to have!

Sam

Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845235 05/04/19 06:40 PM
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I've been working on this music stand for my grand, I'm on release 3.0 and am getting pretty close. It only makes contact with the cheek blocks, but it's still a bit of a pain to set it on the floor every time I want to close the fallboard. It's lightweight so I might set it on top of the piano once I get better padding under the base. If I needed to do the flying hands thing I would raise it a little and move it back a few inches, but this is right in my focal point and gives me lots of space for music. It looks rough because I made it out of scrap I had in the shop, but someday I'll get some better wood and paint it black for the final version.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845238 05/04/19 06:51 PM
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It takes some time to adjust, but it does happen. With your head held vertically, rather than tilted forward as it is with a lower music desk, you have to make more of an effort to look at the keyboard (or your hands), rather than having it in view with your peripheral vision. With the higher placement of the music desk on grands, if you have any near-vision correction to your eyeglasses, you probably have to tilt your head back to place the score within the sweet spot of your lens.

Time and "piano glasses" got me over the hump to where I'm comfortable with the higher music desk.


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845250 05/04/19 07:45 PM
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You mentioned the caster cups.
I have seen pianos whereas the casters have been replaced (with the wrong ones) and in combination with being placed on cups can raise the piano uncomfortably high. Also, I have seen used pianos that the legs have been replaced which made the piano higher than usual.
Just a couple thoughts.
-chris

Last edited by Chernobieff Piano; 05/04/19 07:47 PM. Reason: typo

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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: Stubbie] #2845295 05/05/19 12:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Stubbie
It takes some time to adjust, but it does happen.[...]


That was my thought, too.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845693 05/06/19 07:08 AM
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cmb13, there's a very easy solution: just memorize your music. Then you can remove the music desk entirely and get the full benefit from your wonderful instrument.

Yes, I'm joking, but only slightly. At your level, I would recommend a good bit of memorization. Not everything for sure, but I think you will find it beneficial.


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845719 05/06/19 08:28 AM
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A simpler suggestion: I use a thick woolen blanket folded several times to fit the piano bench. It raises me up enough to see the music stand and it adds nice cushioning. You can buy piano bench pads but I didn’t want ruffles or plaid. The thick woven blanket is black so it matches and is very comfortable. Easy to remove for taller players but works great for those of us who are a bit too short. Between the thick blanket and the music rack which moves back and forth quite a bit, it’s perfect. Plus I already had the blanket.


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845766 05/06/19 11:47 AM
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All great thoughts.I had a little Piano Parlour Party last weekend, as Sam mentioned, and the other pianist there was a woman whose age I don't know, except that she made notes on her sheet music of Schubert's Impromptu that were dated 1961, so I think she's been playing for a while. She has a Steinway at home and didn't seem to have any problem, but the funny thing was that she didn't seem to look down at her hands once...not once. It was very impressive.

She did, however, raise the seat an inch or or two, and I left it at that height, and it seems a little better. That and my weekend yoga may have helped. Maybe I will get used to it.

trandinhnamanh, I like that contraption, although it's a little pricey for a piece of plastic. And Mark, your invention is useful but detracts from the look....I'm sure when you complete your final version, it will look better.

Thanks again for the suggestions; will check in on the post after a few more weeks of adjustment.


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845833 05/06/19 03:57 PM
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Here's another one (but also pricey):
https://www.grandstandforpiano.com/

Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: JoBert] #2845840 05/06/19 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Here's another one (but also pricey):
https://www.grandstandforpiano.com/

Hah! That's almost exactly what I built years ago so that I could have a desk that was 4' wide. Not for neck or vision problems, I just needed a desk on which I could spread out lots of pages at once.

I used a sheet of 1/8"plexiglass that I bought from Home Depot (they cut it to 4' x 1' size for me) and I screwed lengths of 1" x 2" wood (nominal, actually .75" x 1.5" for the non-hobbyists out there, painted black for the good look) along the edges to form a lip at the bottom front that the music rested on and a lip at the top back so it would hang from the top of the existing desk (just like the picture in the link above). I spent more time driving to Home Depot and back than it took to make it. Long time ago, but I'm guessing it cost about $10.

Still have it and pull it out whenever I need to spread out three or more pages at once. It's not too heavy for the existing desk's hinges (probably weighs 2-3 pounds), but I would counsel against putting ten pounds of music books on it.

Larry.

Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845877 05/06/19 07:07 PM
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I've never actually seen one of these before! Awesome product!

Originally Posted by trandinhnamanh
Hi. You can check it out:

https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/basaro/item/10002510/

Works greatly for me.


Originally Posted by cmb13
On my new to me Steinway A3, I find the music stand too high. It's several inches higher than it was on my upright. I thought I would get used to it quickly, but it ends up bothering my neck after playing for a while. I've thought of raising my seat, but then my arms wouldn't be quite horizontal enough. I can rest the music a little lower, on a horizontal support, but this doesn't seem like the proper solution. Has anyone experienced this? Any good solutions?

For reference, I'm 5'10", the piano is on cups which only raise the height minimally.


Sorry you're having issues getting adjusted to the grand! It can take a while sometimes. Hang in there!

Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2864838 07/01/19 03:27 PM
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Can I comment on this 2-month old thread? iLaw linked to it soo... smile

I have progressive lenses for my regular glasses, but I have a pair of single vision glasses for computer and piano, so that helps a lot! I also play from a score on my iPad pro (the 9" one), so the top of that is slightly lower than paper music. I also have a black towel folded in four and use that as an addition cushion/height raiser for the bench.

As for the castor cup thing, I'm worried about that when I upgrade to a grade. Right now I have a small door mat folded and I rest my right heel on that so that it raises my foot up a little bit, that helps a lot when pedaling. But when I've played grands in piano stores, I see that they are sitting on the floor (no cups) and the pedal height is perfect. Well, I'll need those cups between the piano leg/wheel and my hardwood floor, so I'm worried it's going to raise up the piano too high.

Ah well, as you've all said, I'll adjust...


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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: ShiroKuro] #2864889 07/01/19 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ShiroKuro
... As for the castor cup thing, I'm worried about that when I upgrade to a grade. Right now I have a small door mat folded and I rest my right heel on that so that it raises my foot up a little bit, that helps a lot when pedaling. But when I've played grands in piano stores, I see that they are sitting on the floor (no cups) and the pedal height is perfect. Well, I'll need those cups between the piano leg/wheel and my hardwood floor, so I'm worried it's going to raise up the piano too high.

Ah well, as you've all said, I'll adjust...

My first grand was delivered with castor cups installed underneath. After one day of playing, I had terrible heel pain which ended up affecting my knee as well. I tried a mat underneath my heel, but that put everything out of proportion. After a week or 2, I was playing less and less - and decided to sacrifice the possibility of damaging the carpet and pulled the castor cups out - instant relief (though the knee pain took a few weeks to heal).

When I shifted house a year or so later, the marks on the carpet were no different from the marks left by other furniture.

On a hardwood floor, I'd be suggesting installing an area rug - make it at least the size of the piano AND bench.

Example:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/2796395/sams-piano-room.html
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/galleries/2817650/baldwin-r.html


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2864890 07/01/19 05:57 PM
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There's another similar thread running at the moment:
http://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthre...-works-as-a-lower-music-desk.html#UNREAD


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
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