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Music Stand Too High #2845013
05/04/19 07:58 AM
05/04/19 07:58 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,567
Florida
cmb13 Offline OP
Silver Level
cmb13  Offline OP
Silver Level

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,567
Florida
On my new to me Steinway A3, I find the music stand too high. It's several inches higher than it was on my upright. I thought I would get used to it quickly, but it ends up bothering my neck after playing for a while. I've thought of raising my seat, but then my arms wouldn't be quite horizontal enough. I can rest the music a little lower, on a horizontal support, but this doesn't seem like the proper solution. Has anyone experienced this? Any good solutions?

For reference, I'm 5'10", the piano is on cups which only raise the height minimally.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845026
05/04/19 08:44 AM
05/04/19 08:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,151
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
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backto_study_piano  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,151
Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by cmb13
On my new to me Steinway A3, I find the music stand too high. It's several inches higher than it was on my upright. I thought I would get used to it quickly, but it ends up bothering my neck after playing for a while. I've thought of raising my seat, but then my arms wouldn't be quite horizontal enough. I can rest the music a little lower, on a horizontal support, but this doesn't seem like the proper solution. Has anyone experienced this? Any good solutions?

For reference, I'm 5'10", the piano is on cups which only raise the height minimally.

Yes, a grand's music rest is higher - I'm about the same height as you.

I have my bench set as high as it would go (and my teacher with Taubman method got me even higher, with an extra pad (cut up yoga pad under a sheepskin cover). But I took the cups out too - as they also affected my ankle with the pedal causing considerable pain.

I'm also a Pipe Organist - and many music racks on organs are quite high.

Not sure if you need reading glasses - I had special bi-focals made with the lenses set different from normal to compensate. Multi-focal glasses are the worst, as they force you to look through the bottom of the lens, and to do that, you put excessive stress on your neck and shoulders.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845042
05/04/19 10:06 AM
05/04/19 10:06 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,219
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
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Stubbie  Offline
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Midwest USA
I had to adjust when I went from my DP to my grand. The grand's music stand is definitely higher.

You should not have to tilt your head back (thus leading to neck discomfort). You should be able to sit straight with head, neck and back aligned. If you have vision correction, you might need to look into that as mentioned above. Otherwise you will need to raise your bench a bit. It's my understanding that one's forearm doesn't need to be strictly horizontal; the elbow an inch or so above the horizontal works well.


[Linked Image]
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845089
05/04/19 11:55 AM
05/04/19 11:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,740
Atlanta, GA
PianoWorksATL Offline
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PianoWorksATL  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,740
Atlanta, GA
Others have offered some good suggestions. I also wonder if it is related to your vision. Even if you are not using or need corrective lenses as was suggested, playing with the position of the desk, front to back, may relieve tension in your neck and shoulders. I would explore that, too.

For most people, your elbow should be above your wrist. You may need to make several adjustments to gain comfort.


Sam Bennett
PianoWorks - Atlanta Piano Dealer
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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845097
05/04/19 12:09 PM
05/04/19 12:09 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,567
Florida
cmb13 Offline OP
Silver Level
cmb13  Offline OP
Silver Level

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,567
Florida
Thanks - I do wear glasses but have not had vision problems at the piano. I may work on raising the bench a little.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845171
05/04/19 04:42 PM
05/04/19 04:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 238
Paris, France
trandinhnamanh Offline
Full Member
trandinhnamanh  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 238
Paris, France
Hi. You can check it out:

https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/basaro/item/10002510/

Works greatly for me.


Hamburg Steinway & Sons C-227
Yamaha Stagea Electone ELS-02C
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845221
05/04/19 06:53 PM
05/04/19 06:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,056
Georgia, USA
Sam S Offline

3000 Post Club Member
Sam S  Offline

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Posts: 3,056
Georgia, USA
cmb13, I know you are thinking of having a piano party. Just to let you know, this is probably the number one "complaint" at our piano parties, from those that play uprights or digitals. They have trouble adjusting to the grand music desk. So you are not alone. But it's a good problem to have!

Sam

Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845235
05/04/19 07:40 PM
05/04/19 07:40 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 972
Chicago Suburban
M
MarkL Offline
500 Post Club Member
MarkL  Offline
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M

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 972
Chicago Suburban
I've been working on this music stand for my grand, I'm on release 3.0 and am getting pretty close. It only makes contact with the cheek blocks, but it's still a bit of a pain to set it on the floor every time I want to close the fallboard. It's lightweight so I might set it on top of the piano once I get better padding under the base. If I needed to do the flying hands thing I would raise it a little and move it back a few inches, but this is right in my focal point and gives me lots of space for music. It looks rough because I made it out of scrap I had in the shop, but someday I'll get some better wood and paint it black for the final version.


Yamaha P90, Kawai GL-10
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845238
05/04/19 07:51 PM
05/04/19 07:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,219
Midwest USA
Stubbie Offline
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Stubbie  Offline
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Posts: 2,219
Midwest USA
It takes some time to adjust, but it does happen. With your head held vertically, rather than tilted forward as it is with a lower music desk, you have to make more of an effort to look at the keyboard (or your hands), rather than having it in view with your peripheral vision. With the higher placement of the music desk on grands, if you have any near-vision correction to your eyeglasses, you probably have to tilt your head back to place the score within the sweet spot of your lens.

Time and "piano glasses" got me over the hump to where I'm comfortable with the higher music desk.


[Linked Image]
In summer, the song sings itself. --William Carlos Williams
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845250
05/04/19 08:45 PM
05/04/19 08:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 438
Chernobieff Piano Online content
Full Member
Chernobieff Piano  Online Content
Full Member

Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 438
You mentioned the caster cups.
I have seen pianos whereas the casters have been replaced (with the wrong ones) and in combination with being placed on cups can raise the piano uncomfortably high. Also, I have seen used pianos that the legs have been replaced which made the piano higher than usual.
Just a couple thoughts.
-chris

Last edited by Chernobieff Piano; 05/04/19 08:47 PM. Reason: typo

Maker of Fine Piano Soundboards
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Lenoir City, Tennessee
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Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: Stubbie] #2845295
05/05/19 01:44 AM
05/05/19 01:44 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,599
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
Gold Subscriber
BruceD  Offline
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Posts: 22,599
Victoria, BC
Originally Posted by Stubbie
It takes some time to adjust, but it does happen.[...]


That was my thought, too.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845693
05/06/19 08:08 AM
05/06/19 08:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 267
Texas
Dr. Rogers Offline
Full Member
Dr. Rogers  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 267
Texas
cmb13, there's a very easy solution: just memorize your music. Then you can remove the music desk entirely and get the full benefit from your wonderful instrument.

Yes, I'm joking, but only slightly. At your level, I would recommend a good bit of memorization. Not everything for sure, but I think you will find it beneficial.


Austin Rogers, PhD
Music Teacher in Austin, TX
Baldwin SD-10 Concert Grand "Kuroneko", Baldwin Upright, Yamaha P-255
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845719
05/06/19 09:28 AM
05/06/19 09:28 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 957
Southwest
j&j Online content
500 Post Club Member
j&j  Online Content
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 957
Southwest
A simpler suggestion: I use a thick woolen blanket folded several times to fit the piano bench. It raises me up enough to see the music stand and it adds nice cushioning. You can buy piano bench pads but I didn’t want ruffles or plaid. The thick woven blanket is black so it matches and is very comfortable. Easy to remove for taller players but works great for those of us who are a bit too short. Between the thick blanket and the music rack which moves back and forth quite a bit, it’s perfect. Plus I already had the blanket.


J & J
Yahama C3 PE
Casio Privia PX-330
Pianos - the reason God made trees!
[Linked Image]
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845766
05/06/19 12:47 PM
05/06/19 12:47 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,567
Florida
cmb13 Offline OP
Silver Level
cmb13  Offline OP
Silver Level

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,567
Florida
All great thoughts.I had a little Piano Parlour Party last weekend, as Sam mentioned, and the other pianist there was a woman whose age I don't know, except that she made notes on her sheet music of Schubert's Impromptu that were dated 1961, so I think she's been playing for a while. She has a Steinway at home and didn't seem to have any problem, but the funny thing was that she didn't seem to look down at her hands once...not once. It was very impressive.

She did, however, raise the seat an inch or or two, and I left it at that height, and it seems a little better. That and my weekend yoga may have helped. Maybe I will get used to it.

trandinhnamanh, I like that contraption, although it's a little pricey for a piece of plastic. And Mark, your invention is useful but detracts from the look....I'm sure when you complete your final version, it will look better.

Thanks again for the suggestions; will check in on the post after a few more weeks of adjustment.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845833
05/06/19 04:57 PM
05/06/19 04:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,189
Germany
JoBert Offline
2000 Post Club Member
JoBert  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,189
Germany
Here's another one (but also pricey):
https://www.grandstandforpiano.com/

Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: JoBert] #2845840
05/06/19 05:22 PM
05/06/19 05:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 577
Chicago
I
iLaw Offline
500 Post Club Member
iLaw  Offline
500 Post Club Member
I

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 577
Chicago
Originally Posted by JoBert
Here's another one (but also pricey):
https://www.grandstandforpiano.com/

Hah! That's almost exactly what I built years ago so that I could have a desk that was 4' wide. Not for neck or vision problems, I just needed a desk on which I could spread out lots of pages at once.

I used a sheet of 1/8"plexiglass that I bought from Home Depot (they cut it to 4' x 1' size for me) and I screwed lengths of 1" x 2" wood (nominal, actually .75" x 1.5" for the non-hobbyists out there, painted black for the good look) along the edges to form a lip at the bottom front that the music rested on and a lip at the top back so it would hang from the top of the existing desk (just like the picture in the link above). I spent more time driving to Home Depot and back than it took to make it. Long time ago, but I'm guessing it cost about $10.

Still have it and pull it out whenever I need to spread out three or more pages at once. It's not too heavy for the existing desk's hinges (probably weighs 2-3 pounds), but I would counsel against putting ten pounds of music books on it.

Larry.

Re: Music Stand Too High [Re: cmb13] #2845877
05/06/19 08:07 PM
05/06/19 08:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11
J.D. Ford Offline
Junior Member
J.D. Ford  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11
I've never actually seen one of these before! Awesome product!

Originally Posted by trandinhnamanh
Hi. You can check it out:

https://global.rakuten.com/en/store/basaro/item/10002510/

Works greatly for me.


Originally Posted by cmb13
On my new to me Steinway A3, I find the music stand too high. It's several inches higher than it was on my upright. I thought I would get used to it quickly, but it ends up bothering my neck after playing for a while. I've thought of raising my seat, but then my arms wouldn't be quite horizontal enough. I can rest the music a little lower, on a horizontal support, but this doesn't seem like the proper solution. Has anyone experienced this? Any good solutions?

For reference, I'm 5'10", the piano is on cups which only raise the height minimally.


Sorry you're having issues getting adjusted to the grand! It can take a while sometimes. Hang in there!


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