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Thanks, Nobelhouse, as I said in a response above, I write these entries mostly for myself, but the thought that someone might read it gets me to think through what's worth remembering about each week as I go. When i found Kesolo's Nothing is Too Easy thread when I first joined PW, I printed the whole thing and spent the weekend reading it. I wonder what it would be like to someday meet my goal of RCM Level 8 and go back and read what I was thinking and feeling a decade prior...
I wonder what it would be like to someday meet my goal of RCM Level 8 and go back and read what I was thinking and feeling a decade prior...
You can do it ! Why not RCM level 10 ? 10 is a nice number ..... 1 year per grade and you will be there in no time !
Yes! I agree with Sidokar, Holly. Setting a goal of finishing RCM level 8 is a bit like setting a goal to finish 10th grade in high school! In the case of secondary school, the question would be, why not 12? Here, for RCM, it is, why not 10?
BTW, I don't know if I mentioned on this thread but I am on the RCM track myself.
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
You can do it ! Why not RCM level 10 ? 10 is a nice number ..... 1 year per grade and you will be there in no time !
and you, too, TS,
Level 10, gee, why not go for the level of the first web teacher you were impressed by...LOL.
Maybe I will, but I doubt at 50 with arthritis in my hands I'll be doing it at a level a year! I'm adding two months over a year to level 2, 3 months to level 3 and 4 months to level 4 before going to a full 18 months total each for Levels 5 and 6, and assuming 2 years each for Levels 7 and 8. All that math adds up to 12 years-ish total. And I'm one year in. I originally chose Level 8 because that's where "someone on the web" said a good chunk of Chopin was accessible and that's my standard for "dedicated amateur". I won't feel satisfied until I get that far, yet I can't see getting that far and just stopping trying to technically improve. Then there's that darn bus that could hit me next week...
Maybe I will, but I doubt at 50 with arthritis in my hands I'll be doing it at a level a year!
OK, I'm older than you, though without the arthritis (really knocking on wood here!) and I definitely have a goal that's higher. I'm 14 months into my piano journey and planning an RCM exam of at least a grade 3, if not a 4 by year's end, merely because it seems that's about where I am right now without stretching. So I wouldn't try to put yourself down and feel you "can't." Just keep telling yourself you will achieve what you set out to do, keep practicing, and your level will be whatever it naturally is, without any need to artificially "hold yourself back."
Good luck!
Originally Posted by HollyBytheLake
I'm adding two months over a year to level 2, 3 months to level 3 and 4 months to level 4 before going to a full 18 months total each for Levels 5 and 6, and assuming 2 years each for Levels 7 and 8. All that math adds up to 12 years-ish total. And I'm one year in. I originally chose Level 8 because that's where "someone on the web" said a good chunk of Chopin was accessible and that's my standard for "dedicated amateur". I won't feel satisfied until I get that far, yet I can't see getting that far and just stopping trying to technically improve. Then there's that darn bus that could hit me next week...
RCM formally defines the Grade 8 standard as "Advanced Intermediate." For example, many Bach 2-part inventions are at RCM Grade 8.
I suspect if you start playing a lot of Chopin, you will be going beyond RCM Grade 8 anyways, whether you want to formally acknowledge that or not
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Tyrone Slothrop - Here's hoping on the Chopin and good luck with those RCM exams! I have to admit one of the biggest draws to finding a teacher is having someone to tutor me to a standard that could go in and nail it.
I am quite different. Why rush it? What is the difference if you reach level 8 in eight, ten or twelve years? The journey is the goal, and all of that.
Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world. * ... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
I am quite different. Why rush it? What is the difference if you reach level 8 in eight, ten or twelve years? The journey is the goal, and all of that.
But I think you doing what I am saying. Holly has planned out her future progress down to the granularity of a month. All I'm saying is, instead of trying to adhere to such a schedule, which might hold one back, or conversely, push one forward faster than one is ready for, just let one's skills develop naturally. Let your level be what it is. So if your level wants to be Grade 1, great. If it wants to be Grade 5, great.
When you've mastered music at one level, then move on to the next, or continue to enjoy music at that level, whatever your desire. Feel no need to keep working on that level just because you planned 14 months and it is only the 8 month point. Similarly, if you are at the 14th month point, don't feel a need to progress to the next Grade just because that was in the plan. Do you feel ready? Then progress. Do you feel ready but you'd like to consolidate your skills a bit more and play some easier music, for fun? Then stay at your current level and continue having fun.
That's my main idea here.
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
I do happen to have a detailed plan, but there's a secret sauce that makes it quite flexible. That sauce is the Excel computer program that my spreadsheet of works by time by column is on. Finish a piece early? Delete the lines under it thereby moving up the next piece. Need three more weeks than planned? Insert cells and everything is moved down a few weeks.
I like plans. I like extreme flexibility with my plans. If it takes 20 years, I'll still enjoy it. If it takes 5 years, I'll click my heels in celebration, go get my no doubt sprained ankle fixed, then go for that Level 10 with an evil grin on my face.
But I promise not to hang out in Level 2 for 14 months if it doesn't take 14 months. The main point of my plan is to take what I think going into a level will be necessary to complete that level and allocate time for it so that I don't think I'm ready for Level 3 when I've only done half the work necessary, or on the other hand, spin my wheels doing 20 more pieces than are necessary.
RCM formally defines the Grade 8 standard as "Advanced Intermediate." For example, many Bach 2-part inventions are at RCM Grade 8.
Yikes! Those are RCM Grade 8 Advanced Intermediate? Bach 2 part inventions was the last thing I was working on when playing as a youth, that along with Chopin Preludes. I am not sure I would have considered myself at that level though back in the day I had absolutely no reference point for how I compared to anyone else. (This was not only the pre Internet era but the pre Compuserve era. BTW if you know what Compuserve was you are dating yourself. The good ole days were if you have a 1200 baud modem you rocked!)
Sadly I have fallen way below that level. My goal is to get back there in a few years though without a set schedule. Currently there are days I can practice for an hour or more and some periods were just getting in 15 minutes a day it a struggle.
Yamaha NU1X, Sennheiser HD 599 headphones, PianoTeq Studio Steinway Model D and Petrof instrument packs
Yikes! Those are RCM Grade 8 Advanced Intermediate? Bach 2 part inventions was the last thing I was working on when playing as a youth, that along with Chopin Preludes.
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
A recent online lesson from a respectable teacher made a point of pushing looking only at the sheet music and not at the hands. This advice was specifically about sight reading practice, but was recommended for all but jumps of more than an octave.
Oh, the pain…the horror…the regression of tempos.
Yes, my friends, it’s a hideous game to play, but so irresistibly potent. I mean how can anyone turn down learning how to put your fingers where you want them without losing your place in the score? (Aside from the obvious discouragement of IT’S FRICKING HARD!)
Now I can’t say I’m applying this 100% of the time, but I find myself trying it more with each passing day. Going back over places where I consistently take a peek and trying to find that hidden little bugger of a G# or whatnot without taking my eyes off the written notes. Some success. Not a lot.
My ego is pouting in a corner mad at me for playing silly children’s games that leave her bruised and battered. She’s thinking of calling social services. While I sympathize with her, I have to say I feel about this game about like I do Bartok. You don’t have to LIKE Mikrokosmos, but the effort to play it makes you undeniably a more skilled player.
So, for a while at least I’m working on seeking out the hidden notes with needy little fingers and my ego is just going to have to lump it.
Happy Practicing Everyone.
This week’s agenda:
Sight reading – 15 minutes a day Faber sight reading book Allan Small’s 42 Famous Classics Arranged for Easy Piano
Technique - 30-40 minutes Scales: D Maj and Dm – 2 octaves scales, triads, broken chords Exercises: Mikrokosmos Vol. 1 #33 and Czerny 15 Etude: Skipping Rope – Kabalevsky (Quit after 3 minutes. LOATHED it and life’s too short)
Repertoire and Lessons - 90 minutes Faber 3B: Tropical Island, Liebestraum, and Barrelhouse Blues RCM Level 1: Cranky Cat – Teresa Richert Personal Choice: The Lonely Ballerina – Michele McLaughlin
A recent online lesson from a respectable teacher made a point of pushing looking only at the sheet music and not at the hands. This advice was specifically about sight reading practice, but was recommended for all but jumps of more than an octave.
Oh, the pain…the horror…the regression of tempos.
Yes, my friends, it’s a hideous game to play, but so irresistibly potent. I mean how can anyone turn down learning how to put your fingers where you want them without losing your place in the score? (Aside from the obvious discouragement of IT’S FRICKING HARD!)
Now I can’t say I’m applying this 100% of the time, but I find myself trying it more with each passing day. Going back over places where I consistently take a peek and trying to find that hidden little bugger of a G# or whatnot without taking my eyes off the written notes. Some success. Not a lot.
My ego is pouting in a corner mad at me for playing silly children’s games that leave her bruised and battered. She’s thinking of calling social services. While I sympathize with her, I have to say I feel about this game about like I do Bartok. You don’t have to LIKE Mikrokosmos, but the effort to play it makes you undeniably a more skilled player.
So, for a while at least I’m working on seeking out the hidden notes with needy little fingers and my ego is just going to have to lump it.
Happy Practicing Everyone.
This week’s agenda:
Sight reading – 15 minutes a day Faber sight reading book Allan Small’s 42 Famous Classics Arranged for Easy Piano
Technique - 30-40 minutes Scales: D Maj and Dm – 2 octaves scales, triads, broken chords Exercises: Mikrokosmos Vol. 1 #33 and Czerny 15 Etude: Skipping Rope – Kabalevsky (Quit after 3 minutes. LOATHED it and life’s too short)
Repertoire and Lessons - 90 minutes Faber 3B: Tropical Island, Liebestraum, and Barrelhouse Blues RCM Level 1: Cranky Cat – Teresa Richert Personal Choice: The Lonely Ballerina – Michele McLaughlin
Yikes! Those are RCM Grade 8 Advanced Intermediate? Bach 2 part inventions was the last thing I was working on when playing as a youth, that along with Chopin Preludes.
I just had a look at that RCM syllabus and the pieces by grade. The last piece I remember learning properly and feeling comfortable playing from memory was the second movement of moonlight sonata. It doesn't come into any of the 10 grade levels but is instead it is in the diploma of piano performance. I can only think that was just the one piece and I didn't learn it with a lot of other memorised repertoire for examination purposes along with everything else that is required for completing each grade. I think if it is considered post grade 10, then the third movement breaks the scale.
A recent online lesson from a respectable teacher made a point of pushing looking only at the sheet music and not at the hands. This advice was specifically about sight reading practice, but was recommended for all but jumps of more than an octave.
If I have understood this correctly then the 'recommended for all but jumps' would have me consider dropping that teacher.
My thoughts...
It is certainly a useful skill but I would choose elementary music that required little or no jumping while I was developing this skill and make little or no requirements regarding tempo or time taken. The ability to feel our way around the keyboard and the confidence to move assuredly is not difficult to acquire but it does take time and application. Once it is developed the difficulty in the music can be increased quite rapidly.
It is also useful to develop the ability to mentally mark your place in the music while you glance briefly where you're about to leap to then return to your place in the score.
It is also useful to briefly memorise the music around the leap and look at the target keys while making the leap then return to the music.
Any exercises that come across as discouraging or hard need to be tailored to the skill level if they're to be maintained. It is very difficult to apply sufficient attention to a task that isn't rewarding, satisfying or encouraging and it is the attention that is required. Despite the effort put into the daily agenda, here and in other threads in the 'what to do' category, it is not the what that matters. What counts most is the quality of concentration, the quality of intervening sleep and the daily regularity of all we do at the instrument.
It doesn't really matter whether we're doing pieces, exercises, scales and arpeggios, sight-reading, harmony, improvising or whatever. If what we do is consciously designed to be musical or to bring out the music it will be contributing to the development of technique.
Yikes! Those are RCM Grade 8 Advanced Intermediate? Bach 2 part inventions was the last thing I was working on when playing as a youth, that along with Chopin Preludes.
I just had a look at that RCM syllabus and the pieces by grade. The last piece I remember learning properly and feeling comfortable playing from memory was the second movement of moonlight sonata. It doesn't come into any of the 10 grade levels but is instead it is in the diploma of piano performance.
Slight correction, the entire Op. 27 No. 2 sonata (all three movements) is in the RCM ARCT repertoire list of the syllabus - that is, for the RCM ARCT exam, one would be expected to play the entire sonata and not only one or two of the movements.
BTW, if interested, then you can find the RCM licentiate syllabus here. If the ARCT Diploma could be considered a grade "11," then this would be "grade 12."
You'll note that while Moonlight Mvt 3 as part of Op. 27 No. 2 is an 11, Appassionata (Op. 57) is a 12. This is perhaps understandable, as Mvt 3 has become quite popular among advanced amateurs
Originally Posted by KevinM
I can only think that was just the one piece and I didn't learn it with a lot of other memorised repertoire for examination purposes along with everything else that is required for completing each grade. I think if it is considered post grade 10, then the third movement breaks the scale.
I suspect that your distinction between learning a piece and being able to play it vs learning it and passing an exam with it, is rather important. I suspect most most advanced amateurs who play Mvt 3 would still struggle to pass the RCM ARCT with it. For example, would the performance above pass an exam?
As you noted memorization, note the pianist above also doesn't have Mvt 3 memorized and she has to turn the page.
Also, although Op. 27 No. 2 movement 2, by itself, is not on the syllabus of any current piano exam systems that I can find, once upon a time, it was on the syllabus of the Royal Irish Academy of Music (RIAM) syllabus (although it isn't on their current syllabus) at a Grade 6 of 8 (roughly Level 8 of 10 in RCM). You can see that if you search here for Composer "Beethoven" ID "27".
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Slight correction, the entire Op. 27 No. 2 sonata (all three movements) is in the RCM ARCT repertoire list of the syllabus - that is, for the RCM ARCT exam, one would be expected to play the entire sonata and not only one or two of the movements.
Thanks for the clarification. That makes so much more sense and explains my confusion.
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by KevinM
I can only think that was just the one piece and I didn't learn it with a lot of other memorised repertoire for examination purposes along with everything else that is required for completing each grade. I think if it is considered post grade 10, then the third movement breaks the scale.
Also, although Op. 27 No. 2 movement 2, by itself, is not on the syllabus of any current piano exam systems that I can find, once upon a time, it was on the syllabus of the Royal Irish Academy of Music (RIAM) syllabus (although it isn't on their current syllabus) at a Grade 6 of 8 (roughly Level 8 of 10 in RCM). You can see that if you search here for Composer "Beethoven" ID "27".
And this is useful as it clarifies and gives me some reference points of the sort of level I was at.
And this is useful as it clarifies and gives me some reference points of the sort of level I was at.
BTW Kevin, as you were already at a somewhat high level when you quit before, have you considered literature specifically targeted at piano returners such as yourself, such as this series of two books? There are some reviews on Youtube of that particular series and there's been some positive user reviews of it from other piano returners on Reddit's r/piano subreddit.
across the stone, deathless piano performances
"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano "Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person "Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
And this is useful as it clarifies and gives me some reference points of the sort of level I was at.
BTW Kevin, as you were already at a somewhat high level when you quit before, have you considered literature specifically targeted at piano returners such as yourself, such as this series of two books? There are some reviews on Youtube of that particular series and there's been some positive user reviews of it from other piano returners on Reddit's r/piano subreddit.
Thanks Tyrone, they look interesting. From one of the reviews they cover what my teacher guides me with, like what scales and arpeggios I should be practising while learning a piece.
But the choice of pieces might be interesting as I do not want to cover old ground so that removes a lot of pieces commonly used for learning. It sounds like these books might have an interesting selection for adult returning learners.