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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: jjo] #2844073
05/01/19 09:35 AM
05/01/19 09:35 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline OP
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Originally Posted by jjo
The test does a good job of testing test taking skills -- can you figure out what the person who make the test was looking for -- but has nothing whatsoever to do with musical skill, IMHO.

This could be said about most standardized test, including IQ test, could it not?


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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: jjo] #2844074
05/01/19 09:36 AM
05/01/19 09:36 AM
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ShyPianist Offline
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Originally Posted by jjo
The test does a good job of testing test taking skills -- can you figure out what the person who make the test was looking for -- but has nothing whatsoever to do with musical skill, IMHO.


Since I got 100% obviously I believe it has everything to do with musical skill lol!

You do need to have some listening skills but really pretty basic. Is the music going up or down? Is this phrase the same as that phrase, longer, shorter, different shape? How many instruments are playing. That's it really. What it has to do with shape associations is anyone's guess. My guess is nothing!

Last edited by ShyPianist; 05/01/19 09:37 AM.

Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: jjo] #2844076
05/01/19 09:38 AM
05/01/19 09:38 AM
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Colin Miles Offline
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Originally Posted by jjo
The test does a good job of testing test taking skills -- can you figure out what the person who make the test was looking for -- but has nothing whatsoever to do with musical skill, IMHO.

Exactly


Roland LX7

South Wales, UK
Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: ShyPianist] #2844077
05/01/19 09:38 AM
05/01/19 09:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 6,277
Tyrone Slothrop Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Since I got 100% obviously I believe it has everything to do with musical skill lol!

A musical genius! thumb smile


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844078
05/01/19 09:39 AM
05/01/19 09:39 AM
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cool


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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844087
05/01/19 09:53 AM
05/01/19 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop


But remember, they are only trying to have you decide the most likely choice.
Then we are not wrong, but they are. The logical form of assessment should be: 100% probability, 75% probability, 50% probability, 25% probability; or something like that.

Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Nahum] #2844090
05/01/19 10:01 AM
05/01/19 10:01 AM
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Tyrone Slothrop Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
But remember, they are only trying to have you decide the most likely choice.
Then we are not wrong, but they are. The logical form of assessment should be: 100% probability, 75% probability, 50% probability, 25% probability; or something like that.

It's very possible they are wrong too. Although note that PW members, such as ShyPianist, already seemed successful with the test maker's own mapping. I doubt the test maker is a psychometrician, and I doubt these questions were tested on test subjects for validity.

I'd like to think it's the fault of the test maker that I only got 65%, and I am very glad I am in your good company as you are a better musician than I will ever hope to be! smile


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844092
05/01/19 10:06 AM
05/01/19 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
But remember, they are only trying to have you decide the most likely choice.
Then we are not wrong, but they are. The logical form of assessment should be: 100% probability, 75% probability, 50% probability, 25% probability; or something like that.

It's very possible they are wrong too. Although note that PW members, such as ShyPianist, already seemed successful with the test maker's own mapping. I doubt the test maker is a psychometrician, and I doubt these questions were tested on test subjects for validity.

I'd like to think it's the fault of the test maker that I only got 65%, and I am very glad I am in your good company as you are a better musician than I will ever hope to be! smile


Remember I did it twice though, because their mapping made no sense at all to me the first time around!


Pianist, independent music arranger, violinist, mother
Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844119
05/01/19 10:46 AM
05/01/19 10:46 AM
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Posts: 5,153
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wouter79 Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by wouter79
>dumb.com ? Mmmm

And I don't see any test on their page, just an introduction text. No next button or whatever

You have to make sure that Adobe Flash is turned on in your browser.

This is almost the last hurray for this test. Soon no one will have Flash.


Ah that explains, thanks. Flash is arleady on the way out since 2017
https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2017/07/25/firefox-roadmap-flash-end-life/


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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844120
05/01/19 10:46 AM
05/01/19 10:46 AM
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Whizbang Offline
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Total: 95%
Pitch discrimination: 95.7%
Musical memory: 97%
Contour discrimination: 91.6%
Attention: 92.5%
Musical/visual abstraction: 94.3%

I would say that this test is a combination of musical aptitudes as well as ability to quickly tease apart symbolic abstractions--almost like interpreting a language.

The first part of the test does relate to purely musical skills. Skills like ability to remember phrases, separate out multiple voices, listen to the direction of the change of pitch, and analyze the construction of the phrases at a high level definitely do test some musical ability. Having poor musical ability here would almost certainly make the second part of the test a guessing game.

The second part is about translating that musical understanding and analysis into a symbolic language. It's not so much that the music should be evoking particular visual images but instead that specific elements in the diagrams--the use of the same shape versus different shapes, the use of different colors, and the presence of sloping arrows have attributes that represent different elements of the musical phrases.

That the shape is a triangle or a square or whatever is not directly representative of some sense of what the music should be evoking; rather, the shape is used in a consistent matter to represent something about the structure of the music and that meaning stays consistent across the exercises.

So this *is* a test where you are trying to get into the examiner's head but it is not wholly arbitrary. The test is structured like a primer... it begins with simple exercises that define the 'rules' in a rather isolated fashion and it ends with more complicated exercises that use a combination of rules.

Doing well on the questions in the latter half of the test likely requires that you spent the first part of the test trying to "break a code"


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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844137
05/01/19 11:20 AM
05/01/19 11:20 AM
Joined: May 2013
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Florida
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Okay I'm going to cancel my workday to begin this test....


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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844150
05/01/19 11:54 AM
05/01/19 11:54 AM
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outo Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by outo
Sorry to say I do not even get the idea behind the test. The selected shapes make no sense to me in relation to music. I could probably figure it out by just guessing myself through the test first, but don't see the point...

Like many questions on IQ tests, these are associations. So for example, here is a non-musical association to shapes - that is, instead of shapes, I am using numbers - and I've exactly seen this (or something very close to it) before on IQ-like tests:

Is the numeric sequence "2 5 8 5 2" like the shapes /\ or the shape \/ or the shape <> or the shape [] ? In this case, you one would consider the 5 numbers and note that they go up steadily to 8 and come back down the same way, so among the 4 visual shapes, the one that has the closest association would be the shape that also goes up and back down: /\.

This is how associations work between two types of objects which might not be immediately related. Obviously, in the case of the test, we are talking musical tones and not numbers, but frankly, tones and numbers map to each other.

I think now you might see how sequences of tones might relate to shapes. For example, if you have heard C-D-E-F-G-C-D-E-F-G, and you have a number of shapes to choose from, but one of them is / /, you might choose that one because it shows to identical lines slanting upward like the 'C-D-E-F-G'. On the other hand, you might not be given '/ /' as a choice, but instead one of the choices might be '[] []' Well this might also be a good association. Why? Because 'C-D-E-F-G' repeats twice, just like the '[]' repeats a second time in the shape. Obviously here, you are simply trying to choose one set of shapes which is better than the other choices. One final example: you hear C-D-E-F-G-C-D-E-F-G, but the second 'C-D-E-F-G' gets softer (diminuendo) while the first one stays at the same dynamic. One shape choice is '[] []' and another is '[] |>'. Here, the second one suggests the diminuendo while the first suggests an exact repeat, so you might select the second one instead as a better association than the first.

Do you understand how it works now, outo? If you've never seen this sort of thing before, I can completely understand your confusion.


I have done enough IQ tests to understand the concept, that was not the issue smile

Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844151
05/01/19 12:00 PM
05/01/19 12:00 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 25,639
New York City
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I think now you might see how sequences of tones might relate to shapes. For example, if you have heard C-D-E-F-G-C-D-E-F-G, and you have a number of shapes to choose from, but one of them is / /, you might choose that one because it shows to identical lines slanting upward like the 'C-D-E-F-G'. On the other hand, you might not be given '/ /' as a choice, but instead one of the choices might be '[] []' Well this might also be a good association. Why? Because 'C-D-E-F-G' repeats twice, just like the '[]' repeats a second time in the shape. Obviously here, you are simply trying to choose one set of shapes which is better than the other choices. One final example: you hear C-D-E-F-G-C-D-E-F-G, but the second 'C-D-E-F-G' gets softer (diminuendo) while the first one stays at the same dynamic. One shape choice is '[] []' and another is '[] |>'. Here, the second one suggests the diminuendo while the first suggests an exact repeat, so you might select the second one instead as a better association than the first.
I cannot view the test, but if it works similarly to you explanation I think it's very flawed. One could hear and remember things very clearly but simply not be able to form the association with the shape which is a separate skill.

Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: ShyPianist] #2844152
05/01/19 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ShyPianist
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Nahum
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
But remember, they are only trying to have you decide the most likely choice.
Then we are not wrong, but they are. The logical form of assessment should be: 100% probability, 75% probability, 50% probability, 25% probability; or something like that.

It's very possible they are wrong too. Although note that PW members, such as ShyPianist, already seemed successful with the test maker's own mapping. I doubt the test maker is a psychometrician, and I doubt these questions were tested on test subjects for validity.

I'd like to think it's the fault of the test maker that I only got 65%, and I am very glad I am in your good company as you are a better musician than I will ever hope to be! smile


Remember I did it twice though, because their mapping made no sense at all to me the first time around!


Exactly! But unlike you I did not feel like spending any time on it wink

Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: outo] #2844163
05/01/19 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by outo


I have done enough IQ tests to understand the concept, that was not the issue smile


That many? What happened, did you fail the first few? Just kidding wink.


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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: cmb13] #2844164
05/01/19 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Originally Posted by outo


I have done enough IQ tests to understand the concept, that was not the issue smile


That many? What happened, did you fail the first few? Just kidding wink.


I probably did smile

Actually as a psychology minor I was used as a guinea pig, it was a requirement for the courses to be available for all sorts of testing. Some of them were quite weird wink

Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844166
05/01/19 12:42 PM
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Quote
Exactly! But unlike you I did not feel like spending any time on it


Having got an A in A level music and done really well in aural tests throughout all my exams, I was not going to be defeated by it ;-)


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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844169
05/01/19 12:49 PM
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First attempt:

Pitch discrimination: 76.8%
Musical memory 70.6%
Contour discrimination 71.1%
Attention: 74.2%
Musical/visual abstraction: 76.9%

There is a learning curve as to what the symbols are designating. I didn't first understand that the red and black were different voices, and the arrows were pitch, so I got a few wrong in the beginning of the first attempt. Second one was...

Pitch discrimination: 91.3%
Musical memory 90.1%
Contour discrimination 95.2%
Attention: 95.7%
Musical/visual abstraction: 93.9%
Total 95%.


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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844179
05/01/19 01:34 PM
05/01/19 01:34 PM
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This was on a first attempt, not initially sure of what I was doing:

Total score; 80%

Pitch discrimination: 76.8%
Musical memory: 79%
Contour discrimination: 79.5%
Attention: 78.5%
Musical/Visual abstraction: 78.5%

Regards,

Last edited by BruceD; 05/01/19 01:35 PM.

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Re: The Musical Visual Intelligence Test [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2844187
05/01/19 02:02 PM
05/01/19 02:02 PM
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Total Score: 100%

Pitch discrimination: 100.0%
Musical memory: 100.0%
Contour discrimination: 95.2%
Attention: 97.8%
Musical/visual abstraction: 100.0%

I also had trouble the first time I did it because I had no idea what I was looking at. So I did 2 and then figured out what they were getting at, then restarted the whole thing. I can see how it test aural skills, and then you have to figure out how the picture may represent that sound. But strictly aural skills, I think.

There much more to musical intelligence than aural skills, so I think the test is valid for that very narrow aspect of musical ability.


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