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Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: 36251] #2842649
04/26/19 12:04 PM
04/26/19 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 36251
Originally Posted by redfish1901
My theory on the N2 is that it's actually getting discontinued, because it is the slowest seller among the AvantGrands.

N1 has the appeal that it's the cheapest model, so if one is interested in the best action DP, it's a good choice.

N3 has the appeal that it's shaped like a grand, and people who would normally buy grands buy them. I saw it on a cruise ship once--that seemed like a perfect use case.

N2 is a betweener, which seems like a good idea, but it seems the appeal is limited. And because it's so dated now it's forcing people who might have bought the N2 into buying the N3X.

I wish I had better data on sales, but searching youtube videos, I see more owners of N1 and N3 than the N2.


Not producing an N2X would be good news for N2 owners like myself. It would help keep their value.


And I was just going to say that if it's true, then I'm glad I didn't wait for an N2X smile


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Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2842652
04/26/19 12:13 PM
04/26/19 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist


And I was just going to say that if it's true, then I'm glad I didn't wait for an N2X smile


This is all pure speculation without any basis in fact. It's very much possible that Yamaha might release an N2X tomorrow!

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: thomscot] #2842653
04/26/19 12:18 PM
04/26/19 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by thomscot
Everyone, thanks a lot for the answers and info. I didn't expect so many so fast! Thanks.

Originally Posted by JoBert
are of the Kawai Novus NV10? This piano also has a true acoustic action (even with damper weights, which the Yamahas lack). Price wise it should be comparable to a new N2.


Yes that came up in my research, but I never tried one. I'd be curious to do that of course. Somehow I'm fond of Yamaha (for digital only) but well, if the Kawai better fits my taste so be it. Maybe Kawai James (not sure how to tag users, or if at all possible) could suggest where to go in Tokyo to try one out.

Hi Thomscot. As part of your NV10 research, might I suggest you click on JoBert's YouTube link? He has many excellent recordings on his NV10, and it will give you an idea of the tone and dynamic range of the instrument. I think his rendition of "Married Life" from the Pixar movie is especially well done.

Last edited by Emery Wang; 04/26/19 12:19 PM.

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Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: redfish1901] #2842726
04/26/19 05:38 PM
04/26/19 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by redfish1901
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist


And I was just going to say that if it's true, then I'm glad I didn't wait for an N2X smile


This is all pure speculation without any basis in fact. It's very much possible that Yamaha might release an N2X tomorrow!


I said that when I bought the N2 in September 2017 smile


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Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2842764
04/26/19 08:37 PM
04/26/19 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by JoBert
And seeing that the N1X hasn't even arrived in all stores yet, I doubt that the N2X will be released "tomorrow".

And it's taking its sweet time! mad



I will wait until the Summer NAMM at least to see if there is N2X announcement. You may still have to wait for months after that to actually get one though.

Another option is to buy N2 from a dealer now and then upgrade to N2X (some of the dealers in US give full value for the trade in for digital piano in 2-3 years). You lose the ability to negotiate the price for N2X somewhat - but get both instant gratification and upgraded digital piano. And, you get more time to save money smile.

Osho


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Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: Osho] #2842766
04/26/19 08:47 PM
04/26/19 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Osho
I will wait until the Summer NAMM at least to see if there is N2X announcement.

Why would you want to buy an N2X when you already have and NV10?


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2843620
04/30/19 01:16 AM
04/30/19 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Osho
I will wait until the Summer NAMM at least to see if there is N2X announcement.

Why would you want to buy an N2X when you already have and NV10?

I meant, if I was in the market for a hybrid right now, I wouldn't pull the trigger until Summer NAMM.

I am very happy with NV10 and have no plans to change it smile.

Osho


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Kawai Novus NV10 + Embertone Walker D Full/Garritan CFX/Pianoteq 6

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Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: thomscot] #2843624
04/30/19 01:40 AM
04/30/19 01:40 AM
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Hi all, and thanks again for the helpful discussion.

Some updates.

Over the weekend I went to the Kawai store and tried the NV10. Then I went back to Yamaha store and tried again the N1X and the N2.

The NV10 is a very nice instrument, no doubt. I loved some of the features like the ability to adjust the action etc.

However, when I tried again the Yamaha they convinced me more. And over N1 max and N2 the winner was again N2. I just felt better playing it, and preferred the sound.

I have to say, this time I also tried them with headphones, and on this test N1X won by (quite) far. I had to take off the headphones at first because I thought I did not plug them in correctly. It was that good.

That being said, is not that the N2 sucked with headphones. It was still pretty good, and since I prefer by far to play without headphones the fact that is not as good as the other is not a deal breaker.

On a separate note: I may have found a used N2 for about 6.7k usd. It was made in 2013 and the conditions seem excellent. Only problem is: it’s quite far and I cannot try it. I have to rely on picture and what the dealer says (that is, there is no much difference with new). The store offers 3 months warranty so I would expect that there aren’t major flaws. My question is simple. What do you think? Is it a good price (if the instrument is indeed in excellent conditions)? Is 2013 too “old”? Although I suppose 2013 or 2018 nothing really change from a specs point of view. Right?

I’d like to have your opinions. Thanks.

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: thomscot] #2843667
04/30/19 06:06 AM
04/30/19 06:06 AM
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@thomscot: Check the prices paid listings. The N2 mostly shows selling prices in the $8000 - $9000 range when new. So $6700 for a five-year-old N2 is WAY too much. These things depreciate like rocks in quicksand. You could offer much less and see what happens.

Also you don't really know the condition of the piano. A dealer claim that it's "like new" means that it still has 88 keys. (Woweeeee!) That's not much to go on.

And you'll have no warranty on a used piano. If the dealer offers a store warranty, just ignore it. These are nearly worthless if you live near the dealer's shop, and completely worthless if you live hours away.

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: thomscot] #2843680
04/30/19 07:17 AM
04/30/19 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by thomscot
Hi all, and thanks again for the helpful discussion.

Some updates.

Over the weekend I went to the Kawai store and tried the NV10. Then I went back to Yamaha store and tried again the N1X and the N2.

The NV10 is a very nice instrument, no doubt. I loved some of the features like the ability to adjust the action etc.

However, when I tried again the Yamaha they convinced me more. And over N1 max and N2 the winner was again N2. I just felt better playing it, and preferred the sound.

I have to say, this time I also tried them with headphones, and on this test N1X won by (quite) far. I had to take off the headphones at first because I thought I did not plug them in correctly. It was that good.

That being said, is not that the N2 sucked with headphones. It was still pretty good, and since I prefer by far to play without headphones the fact that is not as good as the other is not a deal breaker.

On a separate note: I may have found a used N2 for about 6.7k usd. It was made in 2013 and the conditions seem excellent. Only problem is: it’s quite far and I cannot try it. I have to rely on picture and what the dealer says (that is, there is no much difference with new). The store offers 3 months warranty so I would expect that there aren’t major flaws. My question is simple. What do you think? Is it a good price (if the instrument is indeed in excellent conditions)? Is 2013 too “old”? Although I suppose 2013 or 2018 nothing really change from a specs point of view. Right?

I’d like to have your opinions. Thanks.

The tangible advantage of the N2 is the speaker system. But if you plan to play with headphones some of the time, then the N1X is definitely the better option since it includes the latest sound engine with the CFX binaural samples and the improved resonance model. This is a significant change to the specs in case you are not planning to use external VST software. The N2 also lacks Smart Pianist app support and BT Audio support, but these are rather minor details. On top of this, the N1X would be a whole new instrument with complete warranty. The N2 would be a 6 year-old used instrument with a too high price tag.

Or did you find any differences between the action of the N1X and N2 when playing over headphones?

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: MacMacMac] #2843691
04/30/19 08:08 AM
04/30/19 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
@thomscot: Check the prices paid listings. The N2 mostly shows selling prices in the $8000 - $9000 range when new. So $6700 for a five-year-old N2 is WAY too much. These things depreciate like rocks in quicksand. You could offer much less and see what happens.

Also you don't really know the condition of the piano. A dealer claim that it's "like new" means that it still has 88 keys. (Woweeeee!) That's not much to go on.

And you'll have no warranty on a used piano. If the dealer offers a store warranty, just ignore it. These are nearly worthless if you live near the dealer's shop, and completely worthless if you live hours away.

+1

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: thomscot] #2843705
04/30/19 08:51 AM
04/30/19 08:51 AM
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$7k is a bit high for used.

The N2 does have TRS, but after trying it, it felt like a cell phone buzzing on the keyboard. The servo response is very primitive and I immediately dismissed it as a gimmick after using it.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: thomscot] #2843718
04/30/19 09:45 AM
04/30/19 09:45 AM
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If I had to sell my N2 today, I'd probably start at 5K. I'd be lucky if I got that as a trade in value if I wanted to buy an N2X (if it ever becomes available).


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Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: redfish1901] #2843805
04/30/19 02:32 PM
04/30/19 02:32 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by redfish1901
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist


And I was just going to say that if it's true, then I'm glad I didn't wait for an N2X smile


This is all pure speculation without any basis in fact. It's very much possible that Yamaha might release an N2X tomorrow!

I was checking on the N1X again at my local Yamaha dealer in the Washington DC area and asked them about the N2X. Without any prompting, they said to me that they had heard that there would not be an N2X, and that the N2 itself would be discontinued at some point. They pointed out the N2 is still being listed as an available product, but implied that might not be for too long. So there is another datapoint towards the imminent demise of the N2 series - so now this rumor has arisen on both sides of the Atlantic. frown Anyone who wants a new N2 might consider buying it sooner rather than later.

In any case, the N1X that I've bugged them about for the last two months finally did arrive in their store yesterday! So I will go try it out myself in a few days, and cut a check shortly thereafter for either it or the Kawai NV10 (which I've already tried). smile

Excited. I smell a hybrid coming for me (finally!) grin


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: thomscot] #2843814
04/30/19 02:59 PM
04/30/19 02:59 PM
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When you ask any salesman about something they don't sell or that is not available ... they have a ready-made story about how that product is not good, or is being discontinued, or something to the effect that "you don't want that and what you really want is <SOMETHING I SELL GOES HERE>".

So the N2 is being discontinued, says the salesman.
Unsubstantiated drivel, says Mac3.

How do you know when a salesman is lying ... ? smile

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: MacMacMac] #2843819
04/30/19 03:07 PM
04/30/19 03:07 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
When you ask any salesman about something they don't sell or that is not available ... they have a ready-made story about how that product is not good, or is being discontinued, or something to the effect that "you don't want that and what you really want is <SOMETHING I SELL GOES HERE>".

So the N2 is being discontinued, says the salesman.
Unsubstantiated drivel, says Mac3.

How do you know when a salesman is lying ... ? smile

What I actually asked was: "Has the N1X arrived yet?" (Long history on this question which I had been asking at this particular store for 2 months already, always with the answer of "no, but soon.") Then when the answer for the first time came back affirmative, I asked, "will I be able to try it side-by-side with the N2 and N3X?" And the answer was, "you can try it next to the N3X, but we sold our last N2 a month ago and are not expecting to restock it. We've heard that Yamaha won't be release an N2X and will be discontinuing it soon, although if you want one, we can still order one for you since it is still being listed on the Yamaha website as available for purchase - you just won't be able to try it in the store."

Not that I really need to try it in the store. I did try the N2 in that particular store back in December already. I just had wanted to a side-by-side comparison with the N1X to see how far the sound improved since the N1/N2 generation of 10 years ago.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2843830
04/30/19 03:33 PM
04/30/19 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
They pointed out the N2 is still being listed as an available product


Isn't that ALWAYS the case before a product gets replaced? The N3 was available just before the N3X was released, same with the N1. In fact, both N1 and N3 are still listed as "current" products even though the N1X and N3X are out. But the NU1 isn't, which suggests some difference.

And when the N3X was released, the same line was recited by Yamaha reps and shops as you've just heard--"N1X and/or N2X? Why would there ever be such things? The N3X is all there is."

I would take any such statements with a huge grain of salt.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: Gombessa] #2843832
04/30/19 03:36 PM
04/30/19 03:36 PM
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Tyrone Slothrop Online content
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
They pointed out the N2 is still being listed as an available product


Isn't that ALWAYS the case before a product gets replaced? The N3 was available just before the N3X was released, same with the N1. In fact, both N1 and N3 are still listed as "current" products even though the N1X and N3X are out. But the NU1 isn't, which suggests some difference.

And when the N3X was released, the same line was recited by Yamaha reps and shops as you've just heard--"N1X and/or N2X? Why would there ever be such things? The N3X is all there is."

I would take any such statements with a huge grain of salt.

Well clearly, we have to watch this thread in the coming months. smile I just provided a second datapoint. There are now two datapoints. Clearly that isn't definitive.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: thomscot] #2843927
04/30/19 10:25 PM
04/30/19 10:25 PM
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thomscot Offline OP
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Thank you all again.

I agree with pretty much everyone, I also had the feeling that that kind of price is too high for a 6 years old instrument. Notice that it might also be a matter of a not so favorable USD/JPY rate. For who hasn’t followed the whole thread I’m based in Japan. A new N2 at the official Yamaha store (and everywhere else pretty much) is about 1.140.000 jpy, the price of the used one I mentioned 750k jpy. I still think it’s high.

Anyway, yesterday I went again at the store and I was quite convinced in the end I’d just get a new one, with the idea that the newer the easier will be to sell it eventually should I choose to do so in the future.

And well, when I tried it again I had a weird feeling. It didn’t feel as good as last time. I wonder why. I remembered a much better sound. Still won over the N1X for my taste. Both keyboard, somehow as I thought they were the same but N2 felt better) and sound. But in the end is like I had this weird “enlightenment”: it’s just not worth the price.

I mean, as good as it is, it’s still a digital piano. The action is great etc etc, but in the end, I had this feeling that it’s just not worth 10k. We may be talking of the top of the line (or almost) of a famous brand, but whatever. Top of the line or not, in my opinion, maybe is just not worth that kind of money. It’s 10k! That’s a lot of money. You can get a very decent acoustic piano for that’s price. Now, of course there are a lot of reasons why one (including myself) might consider a digital instrument. Just saying well, it feels too much money for what you get. Hope I explained myself. Anyone feels the same way?

Re: Would you buy a Yamaha N2 today? [Re: thomscot] #2843959
05/01/19 02:15 AM
05/01/19 02:15 AM
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I think it's better that you discovered this BEFORE buying.
Buyer's regret is much less painful if you've not yet made the purchase.

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