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Schumann’s Traumerei.... #2843057
04/27/19 07:00 PM
04/27/19 07:00 PM
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....is harder than it looks (at least with Henle’s fingering).


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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843059
04/27/19 07:06 PM
04/27/19 07:06 PM
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If a fingering is hard you should definitely try and find one that suits you better.

Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843061
04/27/19 07:07 PM
04/27/19 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
....is harder than it looks (at least with Henle’s fingering).

What do you think about m.22? smile


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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843062
04/27/19 07:10 PM
04/27/19 07:10 PM
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It's absolutely gorgeous, though, so it must be entirely worth it in the end.


I've started playing January 2017, Nothing is too easy is where I keep track of my progress.

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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843087
04/27/19 09:53 PM
04/27/19 09:53 PM
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Redistribution between the hands is crucial for this piece, at least for those of us without enormous hands. Oh, and judicious pedaling so you can let go where holding is unnecessary and uncomfortable. It's one of the early ones my Taubman teacher taught me how to play with comfort and ease. (Haven't looked at the Henle fingering.)

In m. 22 I roll the whole thing--in this case taking the bottom three notes in LH, next three in RH and LH on the top note.


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Currently working on:​
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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843088
04/27/19 09:57 PM
04/27/19 09:57 PM
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Tricky one to know WHEN to pedal and not.


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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843089
04/27/19 10:16 PM
04/27/19 10:16 PM
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It seems there are weird shifts in position in nearly every measure. It almost sounds a little religious to me. Anyway it’s short and I don’t really love it so it’ll be a throwaway for me. Who knows maybe when I can do it justice, I’ll like it more. I was surprised, however, at the difficulty. Kinderszenen my a$*!!


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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843094
04/27/19 11:59 PM
04/27/19 11:59 PM
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It's a great piece. It's short, but full of a bazillion things to work on, both technically and expression-wise. I'm doing other pieces in Kinderscenen now, but Traumerei is one I'll keep working on.


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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843115
04/28/19 05:08 AM
04/28/19 05:08 AM
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I really like the Kinderszenen pieces. Träumerei is not one of my favourites, it is too sentimental even for this sentimental old fool.

I have learnt to play of foreign lands and people, but getting the expression right is proving really difficult. Getting pedalling right is hard, I am also trying again to move my fingers further from the fall board to help cope with the short pivot of my piano to make it easier to control the speed the notes are played and released.

I think though I need to put it aside for now and come back to it in a month or so.

I started on Der Dichter spricht on Friday and it is coming together fairly quickly to play but I suspect getting the expression from it I want will also be hard.

I don’t think “Kinderszenes” is meant to imply simple.

Perhaps the true meaning is the connection with the frustration a child has when they struggle to express themselves.


Mendelssohn Song without Words Op19,2 and 19,6, Jensen Sehnsucht Op8,5. Chopin Nocturne C# Minor. Schumann Hasche Mann from Kinderszenen Op15,3. https://soundcloud.com/sheffieldkevin
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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: KevinM] #2843123
04/28/19 06:18 AM
04/28/19 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cmb13
I was surprised, however, at the difficulty. Kinderszenen my a$*!!


Yes, it was definitely not written for children.



Originally Posted by KevinM

I don’t think “Kinderszenes” is meant to imply simple.

Perhaps the true meaning is the connection with the frustration a child has when they struggle to express themselves.


Maybe it is, but formally Kinderszenen was written as an illustration of childhood, depicted in various scenes.


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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843128
04/28/19 06:29 AM
04/28/19 06:29 AM
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Brighton Colorado
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Ah...a lovely short piece. But certainly not simple or easy. Traumarei is one I come back to periodically and seek to make it smoother and express more. I find it beautiful and one that is appreciated by listeners which I need in my limited performance repertoire. Mine is the Alfred edition and the fingering has not been my problem with it...more the pedal. I roll the chord at mm22 as well into a reflective ritard. I guess I like the thoughtful ones without the fast and furious passages (mainly because I can't do them).


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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843141
04/28/19 07:58 AM
04/28/19 07:58 AM
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Florida
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Here’s a nice performance. Interesting to me how effortless he makes it seem!

Can't seem to get it to start at the right place; it's 6:45.


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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843142
04/28/19 08:00 AM
04/28/19 08:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
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Ireland (ex England)
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Originally Posted by cmb13
Anyway it’s short and I don’t really love it so it’ll be a throwaway for me.
Wow! This piece is a perennial in my repertoire.

Originally Posted by cmb13
I was surprised, however, at the difficulty. Kinderszenen my a$*!!
This collection wasn't intended for children or younger players; it is not a follow on to Album for the Young. It is a recollection of childhood seen through adult eyes and meant for adults. Traumerei is ABRSM Grade 6 or 7 - similar to the Chopin Nocturne in Eb or the Brahms Waltz in Ab.

There was a good video about this piece and the build up to the chord in M22 but I can't find it at the moment. It might have Benjamin Zander or it might have been Lang Lang. Someone else might find it but it is worth checking out.


Richard
Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: QuasiUnaFantasia] #2843154
04/28/19 08:42 AM
04/28/19 08:42 AM
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Sheffield, UK
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KevinM Online content
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Originally Posted by QuasiUnaFantasia
Originally Posted by cmb13
I was surprised, however, at the difficulty. Kinderszenen my a$*!!


Yes, it was definitely not written for children.



Originally Posted by KevinM

I don’t think “Kinderszenes” is meant to imply simple.

Perhaps the true meaning is the connection with the frustration a child has when they struggle to express themselves.


Maybe it is, but formally Kinderszenen was written as an illustration of childhood, depicted in various scenes.


Mine was a silly throw away remark, attempting to highlight my own frustration at my inability to give decent expression to the Kinderszenen piece Von Fremden Ländern und Menschen.


Mendelssohn Song without Words Op19,2 and 19,6, Jensen Sehnsucht Op8,5. Chopin Nocturne C# Minor. Schumann Hasche Mann from Kinderszenen Op15,3. https://soundcloud.com/sheffieldkevin
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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: zrtf90] #2843156
04/28/19 08:45 AM
04/28/19 08:45 AM
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Germany
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Originally Posted by zrtf90
This collection wasn't intended for children or younger players; it is not a follow on to Album for the Young.

Indeed it is not a follow up. That would have been quite a feat otherwise, seeing that Kinderszenen was composed 10 years before the Album for the Young. grin

Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843159
04/28/19 08:51 AM
04/28/19 08:51 AM
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Sheffield, UK
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KevinM Online content
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Originally Posted by cmb13


Here’s a nice performance. Interesting to me how effortless he makes it seem!

Can't seem to get it to start at the right place; it's 6:45.


I like these interpretations better than the recording I have by Maria João Pires.


Mendelssohn Song without Words Op19,2 and 19,6, Jensen Sehnsucht Op8,5. Chopin Nocturne C# Minor. Schumann Hasche Mann from Kinderszenen Op15,3. https://soundcloud.com/sheffieldkevin
DP: Kawai MP11SE. HP: Superlux HD681 EVO
Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: jdw] #2843199
04/28/19 11:09 AM
04/28/19 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jdw
Redistribution between the hands is crucial for this piece, at least for those of us without enormous hands.

In m. 22 I roll the whole thing--in this case taking the bottom three notes in LH, next three in RH and LH on the top note.
I see only two chords that require a stretch beyond an octave if played as written...the LH tenth(FCA) in the first measure that appears three or four times and the chord you mention. The first chord can be done by interchanging the notes played with the LH and RH thumbs.

Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843204
04/28/19 11:53 AM
04/28/19 11:53 AM
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I struggle the most with the double appoggiaturas in m. 2 and m. 6, getting them appropriately placed and the next chord properly voiced. The large chord in m. 22 is shown as a suggested roll (Alfred edition) and that has taken a lot of practice as well.

The repeated FCA chords I definitely spread between RH and LH and use pedal as well. And then of course there are so many choices to make with pedaling in the rest of the piece. Then there are the dynamics and the voicings. All in all, it's a miniature course in piano technique.

Is it sentimental? Sure. It's a traumerei (reverie or memory) of childhood. The most famous (perhaps) rendition is when Horowitz performed it as an encore upon his first return to Moscow since leaving as a child.

Horowitz plays Traumerei in Moscow


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Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: cmb13] #2843211
04/28/19 12:26 PM
04/28/19 12:26 PM
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Florida
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Good one, Stubbie! Thanks for the background.


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"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: Schumann’s Traumerei.... [Re: JoBert] #2843277
04/28/19 06:04 PM
04/28/19 06:04 PM
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In the Ozarks of Missouri
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Originally Posted by JoBert
Originally Posted by zrtf90
This collection wasn't intended for children or younger players; it is not a follow on to Album for the Young.

Indeed it is not a follow up. That would have been quite a feat otherwise, seeing that Kinderszenen was composed 10 years before the Album for the Young. grin


Time Traveler?


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