Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
94 registered members (Akaitsuki, bxrdad1, Bett, achoo42, BritishJim, AlphaBravoCharlie, 16 invisible), 1,352 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? #2841990
04/24/19 04:29 PM
04/24/19 04:29 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 188
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Offline OP
Full Member
Duaner  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 188
Minto, NB Canada
I have been working on an old upright (at least 100 years old) that my customer inherited from her family. She wants to keep it and it never had a Damp Chaser in it. It is in fairly good condition although I do have to work on all the pins soon as it will not keep very good tune. But, as it looks right now at some point some work has been done to it. For instance I see the still white but fading bridle straps and there are no string splices. Anyway she is interested in installing a Damp Chaser system but is afraid the piano is too old and the system will not help it much. She asked me that question "Will the DC help this old piano?" I couldn't be honest in my reply as I really do not know. So, I'm asking some of you who have experience what would you reply to her very fair question?


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
(ad 800)
PTG Journals
PTG Journal
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842030
04/24/19 06:37 PM
04/24/19 06:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 787
Lincoln, NE
T
That Guy Offline
Silver Subscriber
That Guy  Offline
Silver Subscriber
500 Post Club Member
T

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 787
Lincoln, NE
There are other that will reply that have lots of experience with the DC system. I use a product called MusicSorb. It's not as invasive as DC and there's nothing for the customer to do, as in watering the piano and changing pads. Is it as good as DC? Don't know. How do you measure these things? I've found it helpful with many pianos I service although it's certainly no miracle cure for a piano going out of tune. Then again, neither is DC.


"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
Lincoln, NE
www.thattuningguy.com
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842050
04/24/19 08:10 PM
04/24/19 08:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 156
Washington State
AWilley Offline

Full Member
AWilley  Offline

Full Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 156
Washington State
I don't have any hard data...but I think I've noticed that the old 100 year old pianos don't seem to undergo the seasonal pitch swings with humidity to the degree that newer pianos do. Maybe it has something to do with the soundboard being old, and flat and tired?


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842066
04/24/19 08:49 PM
04/24/19 08:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,749
PA
daniokeeper Offline
1000 Post Club Member
daniokeeper  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,749
PA
If tuning stability is an issue, a DC will help. If tuning stability is not an issue, why spend the money?

With an old piano, it's often a matter of triage. Would she be better off replacing the bass bridge, replacing or reshaping the hammers, recovering the keys, etc?

Then, there's the question of whether she'd be better off putting that money towards a new or rebuilt piano.

What is the biggest problem this piano has?

What will give her the greatest improvement per dollar?

If tuning stability is an issue, make sure that there aren't mechanical reasons before installing a DC.... split bridges, loose tuning pins, soundboard coming unglued around the perimeter, etc.


Joe Gumbosky
Piano Tuning & Repair
www.morethanpianos.com
(semi-retired)

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -Marcus Aurelius
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842083
04/24/19 09:40 PM
04/24/19 09:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Online content
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
Duane,

Have you ever installed a system before?

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: P W Grey] #2842086
04/24/19 09:45 PM
04/24/19 09:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 188
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Offline OP
Full Member
Duaner  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 188
Minto, NB Canada
Originally Posted by P W Grey
Duane,

Have you ever installed a system before?

Pwg


I have installed four of them. Why?


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842089
04/24/19 09:53 PM
04/24/19 09:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Online content
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
Have they improved the pianos?

Would you say?

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 04/24/19 10:01 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842198
04/25/19 06:12 AM
04/25/19 06:12 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 188
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Offline OP
Full Member
Duaner  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 188
Minto, NB Canada
I would say a definite yes to that, Peter, but that's beside the point as my customer is asking "the piano is over 100 years old is it worth it to pay that much money to install this system in that old a piano?" It's a fair question it seems to me. I will ask it this way then "Would any of you put out the money to install a DC in a piano that is that old?" Would you, Peter?


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842206
04/25/19 06:40 AM
04/25/19 06:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Saskatchewan, Canada
F
Floyd G Offline
Full Member
Floyd G  Offline
Full Member
F

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Saskatchewan, Canada
I tell my customers that in an old piano, the Damppchaser system is not for the piano, it's for the ears of the user. The only reason to put the system in a 100-year-old piano is if there is a reasonable hope that it will make the sweetness of the tuning last longer. I also note that the system can be transferred to a newer piano when one is purchased.


Floyd G RPT
www.floydgadd.com
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842231
04/25/19 08:11 AM
04/25/19 08:11 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 188
Minto, NB Canada
Duaner Offline OP
Full Member
Duaner  Offline OP
Full Member

Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 188
Minto, NB Canada
"I also note that the system can be transferred to a newer piano when one is purchased"

Excellent point, Floyd, I also have noted this to my customer, but only if they get another "vertical."


Duane Graves
www.pianotuningfredericton.com

"Pushin 70...still haven fun I think..."
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842246
04/25/19 08:55 AM
04/25/19 08:55 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Online content
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
I agree with that.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842288
04/25/19 10:54 AM
04/25/19 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 127
E
edferris Offline
Full Member
edferris  Offline
Full Member
E

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 127
Measure the humidity. If it's not excessive (over 70% a significant part of the time), then you don't need to control it.

Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842338
04/25/19 02:23 PM
04/25/19 02:23 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,464
Richfield Springs, New York
E
Eric Gloo Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Eric Gloo  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
E

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,464
Richfield Springs, New York
I have installed many Dampp-Chaser systems in older upright pianos, and yes, they are helpful. Anything you can do to help maintain a consistent humidity level will be helpful.


Eric Gloo
Piano Technician
Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842364
04/25/19 03:22 PM
04/25/19 03:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Online content
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
I am a strong proponent of the system. If they like their piano and want to do what's best for it, controlling the humidity (either ambient or internal, or both) is the single best thing they can do for it.

Installing a back cover in addition will also help it's effectiveness.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842432
04/25/19 07:07 PM
04/25/19 07:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 496
Maine, USA
R
Rick_Parks Offline
Full Member
Rick_Parks  Offline
Full Member
R

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 496
Maine, USA
Hey, Peter smile Ready? LOL

The answer to your question, Duaner, is 'yes, it will help it'... But then, so would a humidifier for the winter months (which is most of the year up here in these parts......really do wish the sun would shine, and it would get above 50!).

So anyway, I agree with the previous reply in spending the money elsewhere... Should tell her to get a cheap humidifier for the room for the winter and spend the money on the piano to get it to play better. With the current costs of CC systems, one could go a long way to improve that piano!
Control 'the piano's area' of the room...Locate a hot-mist humidifier (cold-mist are junk) somewhere near the piano, as the will dissipate too quickly in a large room if put across the room). I have seen small humidifiers do wonders when placed near a piano in a room (not blowing on it!). Entire room's humidity doesn't get quite so high as the 'local environment' of the piano...Which is a good thing.

I had a customer that has a Willis of Montreal located in her old house... Never held tune very well for 4 years, while I had been telling her each year to get a humidifier and place it near the piano (it was a large room)... She FINALLY did it this past November!!! I got there to tune, and the piano that I had always had to pitch raise from about -20 to -25 before tuning it, was sitting at a beautiful -4 cents from A440! Not only that, but the tone of the bass section had improved- the soundboard had benefitted obviously. Humidifier was placed some 3 feet from the piano. Come summer, she'll open up during our naturally humid months, and the piano won't be moving much at all now...
This is simply one of many clients this past 2 years that I have begun to finally convince to do this... All of them are doing much better now!
So, yes- you can get the CC system and install it- but why?

Edit: The Willis of Montreal was from 1920's... So, right at 100 years old.

Last edited by Rick_Parks; 04/25/19 07:09 PM.

Parks and Sons Piano Service
www.parksandsonspiano.com
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842433
04/25/19 07:10 PM
04/25/19 07:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Saskatchewan, Canada
F
Floyd G Offline
Full Member
Floyd G  Offline
Full Member
F

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 74
Saskatchewan, Canada
Converting a vertical system to a grand system is a reasonably economical process. The upgrade parts are available from Damppchaser. I keep a kit on hand, together with the appropriate dehumidifier bars, so that I can do a grand installation even if I only have a boxed vertical system in stock.


Floyd G RPT
www.floydgadd.com
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Eric Gloo] #2842445
04/25/19 07:45 PM
04/25/19 07:45 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,046
London
D
David-G Offline
2000 Post Club Member
David-G  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
D

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,046
London
Originally Posted by Eric Gloo
I have installed many Dampp-Chaser systems in older upright pianos, and yes, they are helpful. Anything you can do to help maintain a consistent humidity level will be helpful.

Speaking as a non-professional - but as a fluid dynamicist - I would agree. There are all sorts of good points in this thread about why Dampp Chasers may be good, or may not be worth the money, or why room humidification may be a good idea. But I do not see that the piano being old is relevant to the effectiveness of the DC.


Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Duaner] #2842592
04/26/19 09:29 AM
04/26/19 09:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
P
P W Grey Online content
2000 Post Club Member
P W Grey  Online Content
2000 Post Club Member
P

Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,420
New Hampshire
Rick,

You can't argue with results. What brand(s) hot mist humidifier have you found particularly useful? I'm willing to try it.

Pwg


Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: David-G] #2842619
04/26/19 10:44 AM
04/26/19 10:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 156
Washington State
AWilley Offline

Full Member
AWilley  Offline

Full Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 156
Washington State
Originally Posted by David-G

But I do not see that the piano being old is relevant to the effectiveness of the DC.

If you accept the premise that at least part of the change in pitch comes from the wood of the soundboard expanding to increase the "crown" then I would think it would be relevant if it were an old, flat, and maybe cracked soundboard with zero downbearing.


Anthony Willey, RPT
PianoMeter
Willey Piano Tuning
Re: Install Damp Chaser in 100 year old Piano?? [Re: Rick_Parks] #2842624
04/26/19 10:59 AM
04/26/19 10:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,044
Michigan
K
kpembrook Offline
Platinum Subscriber
kpembrook  Offline
Platinum Subscriber
2000 Post Club Member
K

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,044
Michigan
Originally Posted by Rick_Parks
Hey, Peter smile Ready? LOL

The answer to your question, Duaner, is 'yes, it will help it'... But then, so would a humidifier for the winter months (which is most of the year up here in these parts......really do wish the sun would shine, and it would get above 50!).

So anyway, I agree with the previous reply in spending the money elsewhere... Should tell her to get a cheap humidifier for the room for the winter and spend the money on the piano to get it to play better. With the current costs of CC systems, one could go a long way to improve that piano!
Control 'the piano's area' of the room...Locate a hot-mist humidifier (cold-mist are junk) somewhere near the piano, as the will dissipate too quickly in a large room if put across the room). I have seen small humidifiers do wonders when placed near a piano in a room (not blowing on it!). Entire room's humidity doesn't get quite so high as the 'local environment' of the piano...Which is a good thing.

I had a customer that has a Willis of Montreal located in her old house... Never held tune very well for 4 years, while I had been telling her each year to get a humidifier and place it near the piano (it was a large room)... She FINALLY did it this past November!!! I got there to tune, and the piano that I had always had to pitch raise from about -20 to -25 before tuning it, was sitting at a beautiful -4 cents from A440! Not only that, but the tone of the bass section had improved- the soundboard had benefitted obviously. Humidifier was placed some 3 feet from the piano. Come summer, she'll open up during our naturally humid months, and the piano won't be moving much at all now...
This is simply one of many clients this past 2 years that I have begun to finally convince to do this... All of them are doing much better now!
So, yes- you can get the CC system and install it- but why?

Edit: The Willis of Montreal was from 1920's... So, right at 100 years old.


Sounds great, except...
The humidity is going "somewhere". Unless the house has an internal vapor barrier, that "somewhere" may be into the walls and the insulation that may be located there. In any event, it will condense whenever it reaches the dew point.

It's true that the water vapor in a DC system is also going "somewhere" -- but it is a much lower volume over a longer period of time. I suspect that a hot vapor room humidifier would put out as much moisture in a day as a DC system does in a week -- at least in mid-FEB here in our area where outside temps can get to -20ºF.

I'm not disputing the results you describe at all. This may be a good solution for some situations. However, unless a person can have some confidence in where the vapor is going, it may be one of those "unanticipated consequences" kind of situations.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Piano World 

Shop our Store for Music Lovers!
PianoSupplies.com is Piano World's Online Store
Please visit our store today.
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Rebuilding or vandalism?
by dogperson. 08/23/19 07:40 PM
Time to move on (method books)
by Tom97. 08/23/19 06:31 PM
ADHD Student
by sonataplayer. 08/23/19 05:27 PM
Roland LX708 and Bluetooth MIDI Latency
by MarkF786. 08/23/19 04:44 PM
PT playback source
by Chris Warren. 08/23/19 04:03 PM
What's Hot!!
Mason & Hamlin Piano Factory Tour!
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics193,694
Posts2,861,939
Members94,231
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1