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Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2842578 04/26/19 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Gimbal

I did this test with a stand alone program......don't know how to tell what exakt readings I would get inside Pianoteq...


On Pianoteq, there is a line chart on the bottom left of the UI (over the keys section). When Pianoteq received MIDI note on events (key pressed), green lines will show on the chart. The positions of the lines on X axis are the velocity values.

Or you could go to menu Preferences and select MIDI section. There is a blank area on the top left. When you press keys, the MIDI events will be shown there.
This example shows C2 pressed softly (velocity=1) followed by C3 hit hard (velocity=108)
[Linked Image]

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Tyrone Slothrop #2842584 04/26/19 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm impressed, Granyala - you use 4 pedals?

Nope but Pianoteq has 4 pedals as a possibility.
Usually I only stomp the sustain pedal far too long like the bloody rookie I am. laugh


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Granyala #2842586 04/26/19 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm impressed, Granyala - you use 4 pedals?

Nope but Pianoteq has 4 pedals as a possibility.
Usually I only stomp the sustain pedal far too long like the bloody rookie I am. laugh

Ah! I guess I've never really looked closely at that setup page in Pianoteq before.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2845069 05/04/19 11:22 AM
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So.....I have only read good things about NOIRE piano, and all the videos I have watched on Youtube, the sound has been AMAZING! So I finally bought it, and downloaded it.....and it sounds absolutely terrible! It's so bad I can't even stand it!

There MUST be something wrong with my gear, or something Im doing wrong.

I have sent an email to Native Instruments regarding a withdrawal......but I don't know if that is possible with downloaded software?

If not.....I have just wasted 150€ on nothing..... :-/

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2845075 05/04/19 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Gimbal
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Gimbal
But Im afraid that if i buy it for €150 and try it out......it will sound terrible (for some reason)
And so? If you buy it and it does sound terrible to you, then just sell your license second hand to someone else. If you offer a small discount from the N.I. price, you should have no trouble getting rid of it if you end up hating it.
I know, and thats not what this is all about. It's about that I think that there must be something wrong with my setup. I have no other explanation to why Pianoteq sounds amazing when Im hearing Woody and others play it on Youtube, and that is sounds so much worse when I play it myself.

Originally Posted by Gimbal
If not.....I have just wasted 150€ on nothing..... :-/

As you already know, just sell your license to someone else at a discount. Native Instruments allows this as part of the licensing agreement as I mentioned above.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2845082 05/04/19 11:43 AM
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Have you tried other virtual instruments?
Originally Posted by Gimbal
I have only read good things about NOIRE piano ... so I finally bought it ... and it sounds absolutely terrible!
There must be something wrong with my gear, or something I'm doing wrong.
I ask because it's difficult to diagnose the problem remotely.

If you have other instruments that sound good, then perhaps the Noire is not the right choice for you.

OTOH, if you've not yet tried any other instruments ...
Perhaps there really is something wrong with your equipment. Can you describe the "nature" of the terrible sound you're hearing?
Or ... can you make a recording and post it?

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Tyrone Slothrop #2845086 05/04/19 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'm impressed, Granyala - you use 4 pedals?

Nope but Pianoteq has 4 pedals as a possibility.
Usually I only stomp the sustain pedal far too long like the bloody rookie I am. laugh

Ah! I guess I've never really looked closely at that setup page in Pianoteq before.

Well, if you have a midi controller, then there are many parameters you can assign to it. Pianoteq supports at least ten types of pedals: Sustain, Soft, Harmonic, Sostenuto, Super Sostenuto, Rattle, Buff Stop, Celeste, Pinch Harmonic, Glissando. The Steingraeber piano also supports the Mozart Rail pedal. Then you have the register/stops on the harpsichords and other historical instruments. The list is quite extensive.

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Tyrone Slothrop #2845103 05/04/19 12:21 PM
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I think That will be a hard sell. But how does that work? I can't find anywhere to download the program and the enter a licens key? You can only download it if you buy it from their site?

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2845118 05/04/19 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Gimbal
I think That will be a hard sell. But how does that work? I can't find anywhere to download the program and the enter a licens key? You can only download it if you buy it from their site?

You could sell it on eBay for example. You'll have to give the buyer the license key that N.I. issued to you and otherwise following the prescriptions in the N.I.'s license agreement for handling the sale (such as erasing your own copy, etc. etc.). You could physically mail the downloaded file to the buyer, burned on a DVD, if there is nowhere else to download it from.

As to whether or not there are people to buy it, I'm planning to buy a N1X or NV10 hybrid in the next week or two. After that, I myself might be in the market to buy a sampled VST. I was thinking VSL or Garritan CFX, but could spring for Noire for the right price, if you haven't already sold it by then.

BTW, I'm with MacMacMac on your hardware. It seems like Pianoteq might be a bit better than you earlier thought on your hardware based on a recent post from you, but it seems most other VSTs sound bad on your hardware. I'd look at the hardware (including amp & speakers) and the configuration, because your problems could lie there.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Tyrone Slothrop #2845125 05/04/19 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Gimbal
I think That will be a hard sell. But how does that work? I can't find anywhere to download the program and the enter a licens key? You can only download it if you buy it from their site?

You could sell it on eBay for example. You'll have to give the buyer the license key that N.I. issued to you and otherwise following the prescriptions in the N.I.'s license agreement for handling the sale (such as erasing your own copy, etc. etc.). You could physically mail the downloaded file to the buyer, burned on a DVD, if there is nowhere else to download it from.

As to whether or not there are people to buy it, I'm planning to buy a N1X or NV10 hybrid in the next week or two. After that, I myself might be in the market to buy a sampled VST. I was thinking VSL or Garritan CFX, but could spring for Noire for the right price, if you haven't already sold it by then.

BTW, I'm with MacMacMac on your hardware. It seems like Pianoteq might be a bit better than you earlier thought on your hardware based on a recent post from you, but it seems most other VSTs sound bad on your hardware. I'd look at the hardware (including amp & speakers) and the configuration, because your problems could lie there.


I really don't know if this is possible? You don't download any file and then run an install and enter a license key or anything like that. And there is no file to be burnt, and I don't have a burner, and the program is 16gb i think. And even if this would be possible, I would have to sell it to someone here in Sweden, or I would have to ship dvd´s overseas.

In the email I got from NI, it said that there is a 14 day withdrawal period......but I don't know if that is only physical copies or not.....we will see. Oh well......in the end it's just some money gone to waste...

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2845236 05/04/19 07:44 PM
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It's very strange that no VST sounds good when played on OP's setup, while he likes all the recordings of them.

Again, what is the range of velocity from MIDI input?
Noire may use the same default curve as other Galaxy pianos, which is linear from 0-127. The velocity from MIDI input could be narrow or favor only one part of the full range.

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
siros #2845245 05/04/19 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by siros
It's very strange that no VST sounds good when played on OP's setup, while he likes all the recordings of them.

Again, what is the range of velocity from MIDI input?
Noire may use the same default curve as other Galaxy pianos, which is linear from 0-127. The velocity from MIDI input could be narrow or favor only one part of the full range.

Very plausible that it's a velocity curve issue. That would limit the range of timbre. Although the OP did say that on second listening of the Pianoteq, it didn't sound as bad as he remembered it. So that suggest it might not be that.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
MacMacMac #2845311 05/05/19 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Or ... can you make a recording and post it?
An ANALOG recording would help pinpoint any equipment issues, most likely he does not have the gear for that though. If he records digitally, we will basically hear the VST through our system.

Limiting us to hear for a wonky touch curve or any incorrect settings he might have set.

Anyhow, @ Gimbal: Do us a favor and make a recording of your playing.
Also, did you feed your VST a few midi files to play? How did they sound?

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'd look at the hardware (including amp & speakers) and the configuration, because your problems could lie there.

While he still didn't answer my question as to whether he plays the videos and the VST through the same system, if he does and the videos sound fine to him, it is not the audio chain that is at fault here.

If the videos sound fine, looking at the amp and speakers would be a waste of time.

Last edited by Granyala; 05/05/19 03:10 AM.

The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Granyala #2845376 05/05/19 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Granyala
Originally Posted by MacMacMac
Or ... can you make a recording and post it?
An ANALOG recording would help pinpoint any equipment issues, most likely he does not have the gear for that though. If he records digitally, we will basically hear the VST through our system.

Limiting us to hear for a wonky touch curve or any incorrect settings he might have set.

Anyhow, @ Gimbal: Do us a favor and make a recording of your playing.
Also, did you feed your VST a few midi files to play? How did they sound?

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I'd look at the hardware (including amp & speakers) and the configuration, because your problems could lie there.

While he still didn't answer my question as to whether he plays the videos and the VST through the same system, if he does and the videos sound fine to him, it is not the audio chain that is at fault here.

If the videos sound fine, looking at the amp and speakers would be a waste of time.

Exactly. The only comment we got so far is that the sound "is not good". No clue what that objectively means...

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
arc7urus #2845495 05/05/19 03:08 PM
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Ok....so the sound is not terrible anymore, but still not good. I have been using it all day....and comparing it with Eighty Eight and the sound coming directly from my Yamaha CSP170. The Yamaha is a CLEAR winner, EE is on second place, and the worse one is NOIRE.

NOIRE sounds AMAZING in Youtube reviews.....especially the one Woody is doing. And yes, I have been listening to the Youtube videos through the same Studio monitors. I have no idea why there is such a big difference in sound. I feel like the sound is muddy and kind of breaking up.....while when Woody is playing it's so warm, soft and nice.

I wish I had put my money on Eighty Eight instead....it's on sale now for $69.99. If I had gotten the chance to listen to NOIRE on my setup before I bought it......I wouldn't have payed $20 for it.

I now know that you can't sell NOIRE (for some reason) It's only some digital content from NI that you can sell, and NOIRE is not one of them.

Oh well.....It's not the ens of the world....

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2845519 05/05/19 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Gimbal
I feel like the sound is muddy and kind of breaking up.....while when Woody is playing it's so warm, soft and nice.

Might be the effect settings / touch curve.

I listened to the YT vid you linked and that piano is BURIED by effect layers b/c he is testing what the engine is capable of.


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2845654 05/06/19 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Gimbal
Originally Posted by JoeT
Why are you still concerning yourself with this?

What do you mean why? Of course I want it to sound good. Someone also told me that you could get a much better piano sound from a VST than from any digital piano.

Oh, there it is again, the bold claim containing an universal quantifier.

Claims with universal quantifiers are usually just wrong. You learned that the hard way. Hope that lesson didn't cost you too much.


Richwood RD-17C-CE | LaMancha Rubi CM-N | Yamaha P-515
Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2845658 05/06/19 04:13 AM
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Ahem--universal quantifiers are a passed down invention for the manipulation of your kids. We hear them from the mouths of politicians all the time...usually unnoticed. They don't actually mean anything, they just skate across the perception leaving a vague impression of "should, then" or "shouldn't, then". smile

Re: Can't get a good sound in any software instrument
Gimbal #2845755 05/06/19 12:24 PM
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Well I wouldn't say "any" DP because I am sure there are some out there w/o looped samples and let's not forget Rolands SuperNatural modeling engine.

Whether a VST sounds better not only depends on the samples but also on the speaker setup. An el-cheapo monitor setup might very well sound worse (esp. if the placement is crap) than the integrated stuff in DPs, esp if the DP is a higher end one like the CA series with the nice soundboards even if the driving VST is superior in quality.

Also, not all of us are bothered by looping samples.

As far as I am concerned though: looped samples are not much of an issue in fast pieces where isolated notes never get to the looping part put in slower stuff it tends to be noticeable. So yeah: I do prefer VST.

Last edited by Granyala; 05/06/19 12:25 PM.

The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
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