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Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: GC13] #2840625 04/19/19 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by GC13
I personally wish that every single mention of Steinway here on PW didn't bring out the "Steinway-basher", "all Steinways are garbage" attitude. I don't mind the fans of other instruments singing the praises of the strengths of those pianos against the weaknesses often found in Steinway pianos..

Just me .02 wink

“Steinway-basher”s probably come out to even the playing field with the “Steinway-embellishers”. wink

Plus you and Dave both admit to not having played the Yamaha SX series.


.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
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Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: Fidel] #2840689 04/19/19 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Fidel
A Hamburg Steinway B with a Renner action?


It's a NY Steinway.

That said, if the tone of it really speaks to you, and you can afford it, I'd go for the Steinway, without much concern to the age of the parts. And having two different actions to practice on should be seen as a bonus, not a downside.


Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
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Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2840700 04/19/19 03:15 PM
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OT, but vanilla is actually exotic, the fermented fruit of an orchid, and complex, comprised of hundreds of aromatic compounds that make the culinary product hard to imitate artificially. So there, Yamaha! Put that in your Steinway and smoke it!


"When life gives you a lemonwood Gaveau [piano], make a place for it (or, what is the same thing, find a wealthy foreign collector/enthusiast to sell it to)." --adapted from and inspired by _The Piano Shop on the Left Bank_ by Thad Carhart
Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: agraffe] #2840705 04/19/19 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by agraffe
OT, but vanilla is actually exotic, the fermented fruit of an orchid, and complex, comprised of hundreds of aromatic compounds that make the culinary product hard to imitate artificially. So there, Yamaha! Put that in your Steinway and smoke it!


wink wink smile wink wink

Last edited by One Ohm; 04/19/19 03:33 PM.
Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2840712 04/19/19 04:06 PM
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There’s a bunch more Yamaha bashers than Steinway bashers on Piano World. That’s OK. I still enjoy the stability in my Piano’s tune and regulation. Yes I love vanilla.


J & J
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Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2840776 04/20/19 12:00 AM
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Just me 2cents as this thread hit a special nerve with me. I think the original posters inclinations are terrifically on. I recently tried a bunch of Steinway Bs in 3 Steinway Gallery’s. I love Stwinways since childhood and always thought the Yamaha c series ( what I grew up with),
we’re always good, well made, bang for your buck pianos, but simply
not in the class of a Steinway as far as tone, touch, and possibilities.
Of all the Bs that I tried in the 3 stores , most of the Bs I thought were mediocre. One was Spectacular. Different planets.
The couple of SX Yamahas that I tried, I would also say were spectacular. Nothing like Yamahas C series I grew up with.
Beautiful warm tone ( not bright), even as one could want .. etc.
So the OP has probably got it exactly down to my 2 in that range.
Yes, if you find that one NY B that truly is something.. absolutely !
But..the other 4 I played in the same couple of days..I’d rather get a Yamaha SX

Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2840780 04/20/19 12:23 AM
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First of all, thanks everyone for taking the time to respond! For someone inexperienced as myself it is incredibly useful to hear your varied perspectives and experiences.

After reading this thread, i'm not sure why I was concerned about having 2 actions. The NV10 would be a practice piano, if anything it is going to make better practice. Also, I will reach out to a local technician to come take a look at the ones I am really interested in. There has already been a few (small) things I have noticed that I really have no idea whether they are normal, or just the way something is regulated, or an actual problem.

The plot thickens. As part of my plan to play anything in range, today I drove to Chupp's in northern Indiana. They had a couple of all original (both new and old awaiting restoration) B's and a nice selection of restored Steinways from the model M to the D including an A-2 and A-3. I spent a few hours by myself playing all the restored pianos side by side in as much detail as I could, for instance playing the same piece/segment on all them one after the other.

I was blown away. They had that distinctive bright Steinway sound but it was the action that really clicked with me(this is not a Teflon pun). I can't fully explain why, maybe because many of the components in the action are new and I'm comparing them with original pianos that have years of use on them? The actions were smooth and fluid with no 'clunkyness' or overt friction to them. This reality truly hit me when, while playing, I realized that some motions that I struggle with constantly on the NV10 and pianos I've tested like specific trills and fast runs, I was doing rather effortlessly on these actions. I'm not sure if this is a good thing technique-wise, because I could argue that I should be able to do it on any action, but it was certainly fun.

I was also again surprised by how different the character of each instrument was, even when comparing 2 B's side by side. I am amazed by the enormous range of voicing and action possibilities even for the same 'model' of piano. I enjoyed playing them so much I would be happy taking any of them home.

Shopping for pianos is good fun.

Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2840789 04/20/19 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by opus64
... Shopping for pianos is good fun.

I agree entirely - eventually it gets to decision day, and ... no more shopping. In my case, at my age, with a dream piano, my piano shopping days are over.

Enjoy the shopping - and eventually the dream piano.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2840856 04/20/19 08:45 AM
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Piano shopping is good fun, once you’ve narrowed down your choices and don’t have to drive great distances to compare pianos. So a quick tip here: narrow down your choices quickly. I know of buyers that chased down lots of different pianos in a tri-state area and became tired and confused. Comparing 3 to 4 top contenders is far more meaningful than running around keeping track of 8 top contenders. Best of Luck.


J & J
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Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: j&j] #2841074 04/20/19 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by j&j
Piano shopping is good fun, once you’ve narrowed down your choices and don’t have to drive great distances to compare pianos. So a quick tip here: narrow down your choices quickly. I know of buyers that chased down lots of different pianos in a tri-state area and became tired and confused. Comparing 3 to 4 top contenders is far more meaningful than running around keeping track of 8 top contenders. Best of Luck.

You're right - I had 5 pianos on my "serious" list plus another 3 which were maybe - at the same places. The 5 stayed there for a few weeks, the other 3 fell off, the 5 became 4 when one was sold, I dropped one off, -> 3 another -> 2 at which point I almost had to flip a coin (Grotrian 7'4 or rebuilt D Steinway).


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: One Ohm] #2841189 04/21/19 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by One Ohm
Whoah guys...lighten up. The only nerve you hit was my funny bone. That is why I put the wink at the end of the sentence. I was also playing on words from all the posts that use " "Steinway Bs are...", or " I have played many Steinway B's...", etc. I changed it to BS for a joke. Anyway, sounds like you may be the ones being sensitive. In both my posts I encouraged the purchase of the Steinway. Also, the S7X is not the only piano I have owned, or own, or have spent a lot of time on. Just like you wink I will spare you my music resume, favorite chords and piano practice hours. That is what I call proof-by-intimidation. Did I mention I have a PhD? wink


One thing to note is that the S7X is 6.5 inches longer than the steinway B, and so not the proper comparison. It is the steinway model C at 7'6" that is the proper comparison.

Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2842268 04/25/19 09:02 AM
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Here is a few guys praising the sound of the S7X.
Shawcross keeps calling it a 7 footer, but it’s 7’ 6”.

And the last video is on the S5X.






.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2842306 04/25/19 10:59 AM
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Well, I have another interesting option. I have the opportunity to get a new (used once)2018 Steinway B hugely discounted. It is about 6k more than a new (already discounted) S5X, and "only" $13k more than a rebuilt one. Even though it is more than I was looking to spend, I'm having a hard time talking myself out of it given how much I like the sound and how much these instruments seem to go for decades later.

It seems like almost too good of a deal, i'm going to have a tech look at it but if it is really that good of a deal it probably won't last long. Then again it might not be unusual, i would be curious to hear any thoughts.

Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2842313 04/25/19 11:18 AM
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If you like the sound, action and potential of the piano, go with it. Having a tech check it out is a good idea. If the instrument excites you then you will love it. A Steinway B would be a dream piano for anyone. Sounds exciting!

Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2842325 04/25/19 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by opus64
Well, I have another interesting option. I have the opportunity to get a new (used once)2018 Steinway B hugely discounted. It is about 6k more than a new (already discounted) S5X, and "only" $13k more than a rebuilt one. Even though it is more than I was looking to spend, I'm having a hard time talking myself out of it given how much I like the sound and how much these instruments seem to go for decades later.

It seems like almost too good of a deal, i'm going to have a tech look at it but if it is really that good of a deal it probably won't last long. Then again it might not be unusual, i would be curious to hear any thoughts.

According to PianoBuyer, there should be about a $35k difference in price between the Model B, and S5X.
Hard to believe using the Model B once would drop the price 29k!?

Of course, how much it goes for “decades later” is going to depend on the condition.
You’ll have to spend a bunch of money, to keep it worth a bunch of money.
And then if Steinway gets sold to the Chinese . . . wink


.... Jeff ▫️ Yamaha P515 ▫️ Roll Tide
Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2842343 04/25/19 01:39 PM
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Just keep in mind that you never really know how it's going to sound until you have it in your room.

Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2842390 04/25/19 03:25 PM
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Well, I got a chance to go back and look at it in more detail and I have some more information but also more questions. First, here are some pictures for those interested:

Steinway B (2018?) Pictures

I tried to gather more information on how it was used and they said it was used for performances at a local Jazz venue, sounds like it wasn't just 'one' performance.

They mentioned over email that it did have some 'light scratches' on the music desk. I took a look and it indeed has scratches but not just the music desk, practically every face of the body I looked at. They do seem like light scratches but there are quite a lot of them. They said that those surface scratches 'buff out' and they would do it for free, but i'm not too sure how easy it is to do that and how good the result will be. I'm not sure how common this is, is it like waxing a car or is it more elaborate like a refinishing. Most of the piano is the 'satin' look that is polished in one direction, while the fall board seems to be the glossy look. The fallboard looks perfect, it is the rest of the piano that has the scratches. From the pedals one can also tell it has been played quite a bit.

Another question I have is the serial number. Few of the Steinway serial number lists I have found go to recent years, but the one I did find puts the year at 2015 not 2018. Which seems kinda misleading since they explicitly said it was a 2018.

Either case, seems like the discount is making more sense now.

Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2845537 05/05/19 04:59 PM
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The Steinway B in the photos was manufactured between 2016 and 2017, so is 2-3 years old.

If the case has a few superficial scratches, the dealer can probably buff most of them out for you. I wouldn't sweat some scratches and modest use at jazz venues. Depending on what they're asking for the instrument, you may have a good deal. Also, since the piano is a couple of years old, it will be "broken in," which is a good thing. It means the strings have settled in and the hammers have been firmed up. Personally I prefer modestly used pianos to new ones for this reason and because they are typically well discounted. It should require minimal voicing and regulation.

By the way, my piano dating app has a news section which says the Steinway Gallery in Madison, WI, is closing and having a clearance sale. Since you're in Indiana, I thought you might want to check it out.

Steinway in Madison WI Going Out of Business Sale


August Förster 215
Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2845632 05/06/19 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by opus64
From the pedals one can also tell it has been played quite a bit. .
From the photo, it appears as if a hole has been worn in the sustain pedal. Is that true? Or has the brass finish simply been worn down due to excessive use? Modest use is one thing....excessive use is another.


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Re: Buying first grand and torn, thoughts? [Re: opus64] #2846890 05/09/19 07:19 PM
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What's the conclusion in this case? Did I miss it?
Quote
Then again it might not be unusual, i would be curious to hear any thoughts.

Thoughts are fine and dandy but decisions must still be made by each buyer on an individual basis. IMHO there is only limited usefulness for "thought" that can be offered: it's such a field of personal opinion, preference and often also "perception"
Of course, as they say" perception is reality"... smirk
At same time it sometimes really does pay to look at the "price" of goods and see "what else" same money can buy on market at same time. This is where things often start to make much more sense although this is not always fully used in the decision making process. However, it's the very point when "smart decisions" replace vague or inconclusive personal opinions and preferences.
To me, a house costing $ 500,000 that is more comfortable for me than one for 1 million, makes a lot of sense.
Perhaps it's time to look at pianos same way.
It may not only help making a sound decision but the rewards can be huge....

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 05/09/19 07:28 PM.

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