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I am an adult beginner... #2841844
04/24/19 05:24 AM
04/24/19 05:24 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 952
Germany
patH Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
patH  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 952
Germany
...at learning to drive a motorbike. wink

Yesterday I had my first driving lesson. It was a bit frustrating. I had a hard time coordinating the accelerator and clutch.
The teacher told me that coordination is important; that you need to know what you want to do next, and do regular movements.
And this reminded me on tips teachers say to piano students. Coordination, focus, knowing what comes next, starting very slow... These are also tips that might be useful for learning to play the piano.

In fact, I believe that driving a motorbike has more in common with playing the piano than driving a car has. In a car, you operate accelerator and clutch with your feet; in a motorbike, with your hands.
And even in a motorbike, you can start with hands separate (only operating the accelerator in neutral), or hands together (clutch and accelerator).

So I'm a bit curious.
Are there any piano players on this forum who also ride motorbikes?
If yes: Did you approach learning to play the piano like learning to ride a motorbike? Starting slow, focus on coordination; hands separate?
In short: Did knowing to ride a motorbike help with learning the piano, or vice versa?


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
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Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2841850
04/24/19 05:52 AM
04/24/19 05:52 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,883
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,883
Originally Posted by patH
So I'm a bit curious.
Are there any piano players on this forum who also ride motorbikes?

I did. Until I was in a near fatal hit-and-run accident when on my Kawasaki Ninja on a highway at about 65mph and broke almost 20 bones in various compound fractures, punctured lung, perforated liver, fractured vertebrae. I guess that means I know what it's like jumping out of a car on the highway. Now the wife has forbidden further pursuit of that pastime on pains of immediate divorce.

Originally Posted by patH
Did knowing to ride a motorbike help with learning the piano, or vice versa?

Well, considering it's given me permanent nerve damage in my right shoulder, arm, hand - I would say, no.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2841851
04/24/19 06:00 AM
04/24/19 06:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 454
Sheffield, UK
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KevinM Offline
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Sheffield, UK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop

I did. Until I was in a near fatal hit-and-run accident when on my Kawasaki Ninja on a highway at about 65mph and broke almost 20 bones in various compound fractures, punctured lung, perforated liver, fractured vertebrae. I guess that means I know what it's like jumping out of a car on the highway. Now the wife has forbidden further pursuit of that pastime on pains of immediate divorce.

Well, considering it's given me permanent nerve damage in my right shoulder, arm, hand - I would say, no.


I'm with your wife on this. Not the divorcing part obviously that would be a bit difficult for me, just that your body has probably had enough punishment already and keeping risks lower is more important.


Learning Mendelssohn Song without Words Op. 19 No. 2, Schumann Bunte Blätter Stücklein Op. 99 No. 1. Jensen Sehnsucht Op. 8 No. 5. Schumann Kinderszenen Op15 No1, Von Fremden Ländern und Menschen.
Digital piano: Casio Celviano AP-470. Headphones: Superlux HD681 EVO
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2841854
04/24/19 06:31 AM
04/24/19 06:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 173
England
Lillith Offline
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England
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by patH

[quote=patH]Did knowing to ride a motorbike help with learning the piano, or vice versa?

Well, considering it's given me permanent nerve damage in my right shoulder, arm, hand - I would say, no.


Haha made me laugh smile


Does Magna Carta mean nothing to you? Did she die in vain?
Roland FP30 in white
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2841874
04/24/19 07:46 AM
04/24/19 07:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 952
Germany
patH Offline OP
500 Post Club Member
patH  Offline OP
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 952
Germany
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by patH
Did knowing to ride a motorbike help with learning the piano, or vice versa?

Well, considering it's given me permanent nerve damage in my right shoulder, arm, hand - I would say, no.
Sorry about your accident.
However, accidents can also happen when you are on foot, or on a bicycle. Just a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I had a little accident on my bicycle a few years ago. Nothing too serious, but I hurt my little finger and couldn't use it to play the piano for a few weeks. But I did not give up bicycling.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2841876
04/24/19 08:01 AM
04/24/19 08:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,883
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,883
Originally Posted by patH
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by patH
Did knowing to ride a motorbike help with learning the piano, or vice versa?

Well, considering it's given me permanent nerve damage in my right shoulder, arm, hand - I would say, no.
Sorry about your accident.
However, accidents can also happen when you are on foot, or on a bicycle. Just a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

I had a little accident on my bicycle a few years ago. Nothing too serious, but I hurt my little finger and couldn't use it to play the piano for a few weeks. But I did not give up bicycling.

Less likely to have a hit-and-run accident on a piano... unless someone tries to slam a fallboard on your fingers while wearing a mask! wink laugh


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2841883
04/24/19 08:31 AM
04/24/19 08:31 AM
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,834
Orange County, California
bSharp(C)yclist Offline
1000 Post Club Member
bSharp(C)yclist  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,834
Orange County, California
I enjoy riding my Trek Domane, but I sweat a lot less playing piano laugh Sometimes I count 1-e-And-ah-2-e-And-ah ... when pedaling.


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Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2841888
04/24/19 09:10 AM
04/24/19 09:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,875
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Online content
4000 Post Club Member
Charles Cohen  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,875
Richmond, BC, Canada
Two similarities ..

1. They are both "hard realtime tasks". That is, you have limited time to think while riding or playing. If thinking takes too long, you've failed.

2. "Muscle memory" plays a large role in success. That takes time to develop.

The difference is that the price of failure, on a motorbike, can be very high.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: Charles Cohen] #2841895
04/24/19 09:38 AM
04/24/19 09:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,883
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,883
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
The difference is that the price of failure, on a motorbike, can be very high.

Sadly, one can do everything right on a motorcycle, and yet still fail because those around you fail.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2841900
04/24/19 10:09 AM
04/24/19 10:09 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,579
Florida
cmb13 Offline
Silver Level
cmb13  Offline
Silver Level

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Posts: 2,579
Florida
I've had my share; most recently nice Triumph Triple. No more for me; too old, reflexes aren't as quick, not as strong, and too many bad drivers around here. No I feel there is no correlation. FWIW, my car still has, and will always have, 3 pedals.


Steinway A3
Boston 118 PE

Working On
Debussy Clair De Lune

"You Can Never Have Too Many Dream Pianos" -Thad Carhart
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2841907
04/24/19 10:30 AM
04/24/19 10:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 856
Upstate SC
dobro Offline
500 Post Club Member
dobro  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 856
Upstate SC
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen
The difference is that the price of failure, on a motorbike, can be very high.

Sadly, one can do everything right on a motorcycle, and yet still fail because those around you fail.


This is a huge problem. Ive ridden and spent many years in local news covering accidents with traffic. Its just too dangerous. Around here wild animals (and people) cause alot of problems.


Alesis Coda Pro
PianoVideoLessons.com Currently unit 4
Faber All In One -Level 2
Grateful Dead fan since 1987
Re: I am an adult beginner.. [Re: patH] #2841933
04/24/19 12:03 PM
04/24/19 12:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,820
Italy
sinophilia Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014
sinophilia  Offline

Gold Supporter until Sept. 05 2014


Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,820
Italy
Yep, I got my motorcycle license in 2008, at the ripe age of 33. Actually I had already been riding scooters and small motorbikes since I was 16, but I needed a license to be able to ride abroad. I went to Paris on my 125cc - it took me 3 days but how fun!

My current bike was flooded 2 years ago - I rebuilt the engine completely last summer, but it still has some problems and I haven't ridden it for ages. But today I reactivated my insurance policy, so there's hope. Still, even riding a small bike is dangerous and frustrating in the Italian traffic. Once I was cut off by a car, hit my head on the ground (no helmets back then!) and broke a wrist. At least I didn't play the piano at the time.

Using clutch and gears definitely requires some coordination, but it's so much easier than playing the piano! It soon becomes second nature.


Diana & Wally - Yamaha W110BW
To create a beautiful sound, one must imagine it at first and then learn to produce fluid physical motions that breathe life into music. (Shirley Kirsten)
http://soundcloud.com/sinophilia - http://youtube.com/sinophilia
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2841945
04/24/19 01:01 PM
04/24/19 01:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 523
The Sierras
D
David B Online content
500 Post Club Member
David B  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 523
The Sierras
I've been riding bikes most of my life. I got my first dirt bike when I was around 12. As an adult I only rode dual sport bikes (bikes that can go both on and off road). I love the feeling of riding off road somewhere and then transitioning to pavement and cruising down the highway at 80mph. I currently don't own a bike due to financial reasons and ironically, (based on the subject of this thread) piano playing. I had three vehicles paid off (two cars and a bike) and my wife crashed her car (she was ok), so I sold my bike to buy her a new car. Now I've got no bike, but I do have a nice piano. smile

I can't compare riding a bike and playing the piano because I learned to ride a bike when I was a child. So most of the time the amount of brain energy that went into riding a bike was very minimal. It was actually very relaxing, unless I was riding a technical trail. So I really never thought about delayed apex turns, counter steering, engine breaking and shifting, etc., all that stuff happened automatically. Kind of like an experienced piano player playing a simple song. He/she probably doesn't have to think about it much because their hands naturally move the way they are supposed to.

Since I only started learning the piano a few years ago, nothing I do on the piano is really easy. It seems like every song I play takes 100% of my brain power just to put my fingers on the right keys. I wish it was like riding a bike and I could just play without having to think so hard about it. I can't even really get lost in the music I play no matter how connected I am to the song because I'm concentrating so hard on hitting every note. I wish I would have started piano when I was young. I'd like to get to the point where I can just enjoy playing without thinking so hard about it. I'm hoping that happens before I die.

Here is the last bike I owned but sold to buy my wife a new car. It was the favorite bike I ever had. BMW F800GS.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

If I didn't buy an N1X, I'd probably still be riding a bike. However, I can't afford both.

God Bless,
David


Yamaha AdvantGrand N1X
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Duane Shinn 52 Week Crash Course; Lessons 1-38 Completed
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: bSharp(C)yclist] #2841951
04/24/19 01:29 PM
04/24/19 01:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 40
Nebraska, USA
E
enw10 Online content
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Nebraska, USA
Originally Posted by bSharp(C)yclist
I enjoy riding my Trek Domane, but I sweat a lot less playing piano laugh Sometimes I count 1-e-And-ah-2-e-And-ah ... when pedaling.


That's my kind of bike! I have an FXS4. I hope to one day have a piano that I love as much as I love my bike.

Last edited by enw10; 04/24/19 01:30 PM.
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2842011
04/24/19 05:37 PM
04/24/19 05:37 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 221
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TomInCinci Offline
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I had a Honda Super 90 in or around 1969 but I was too young to consider failure an option. It did take some practice.

But I learned to fly in the 70s and I often see parallels to learning piano. Both seem to require a LOT of work and moving on towards goals that seem impossible at times. You also get stuck into close quarters with a teacher you better enjoy. And it seems like a very large percentage of people give up, though I don't have stats on either.

Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2842135
04/25/19 02:16 AM
04/25/19 02:16 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 10
Poland
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andy250 Offline
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Poland
I started riding a motorbike when I was around 16 and did it for at least 15 years (and I've been playing the piano since around 10 until today).

Quote
Did you approach learning to play the piano like learning to ride a motorbike? Starting slow, focus on coordination; hands separate?


You start slow, with a small bike (easy piano piece) possibly with an instructor near you (piano teacher). But then it's so much different. Learning to ride a motorbike takes few hours for the basics, and a couple of months to get comfortable. Then you are done, you just keep riding. So much different than tackling new and more complex piano pieces.

Quote
Did knowing to ride a motorbike help with learning the piano, or vice versa?


In my case: no. I can't see a relationship.

Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2842165
04/25/19 04:04 AM
04/25/19 04:04 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 363
Cheshire, UK
Cheshire Chris Online content
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Cheshire, UK
Falling off a piano stool is considerably less likely to result in compound fractures!


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: Cheshire Chris] #2842166
04/25/19 04:09 AM
04/25/19 04:09 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,883
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline


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Posts: 4,883
Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
Falling off a piano stool is considerably less likely to result in compound fractures!

You're telling me! My wife is much happier now that I've taken up piano and have stopped bugging her about replacing my motorcycle.

(I completely blame it on my autonomous nervous system that my salivary glands still kick into overtime when I see a photo of a BMW S1000RR)

[Linked Image]

<sigh>

(Sighs are also autonomous! wink )


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2842174
04/25/19 04:35 AM
04/25/19 04:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 363
Cheshire, UK
Cheshire Chris Online content
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Cheshire Chris  Online Content
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Posts: 363
Cheshire, UK
I suspect that switching from the Honda CBR600 of my biking days to my current Yamaha P-515 was probably a smart move, health-wise, and just as much fun smile.


Chris

Yamaha P-515, Yamaha Reface CP.
Re: I am an adult beginner... [Re: patH] #2842219
04/25/19 07:32 AM
04/25/19 07:32 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 162
Hawai'i Island
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BigIslandGuy Offline
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Hawai'i Island
I started riding dirt bikes when I was a kid. Cancer and treatments for it left me too busted up for dirt bikes or sport bikes, so now we just cruise with the guys and gals in our motorcycle club. (Pilau MC) The current stable is a 1993 H-D Fatboy with an S&S motor and a 2012 H-D Tri-Glide trike. Retro as heck, but fun.

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