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Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: Jethro] #2841983
04/24/19 03:57 PM
04/24/19 03:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 168
New York, NY, USA
AnthonyPaulO Offline
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New York, NY, USA
Originally Posted by Jethro

I listened to his video through my powered speaker system and it was relatively loud to me. Through an iphone it was not as bothersome. Maybe my speakers amplified the effect. If I was playing a few measure of octaves in staccato that noise would bother me if it was as loud as I perceived it to be. I have no such noise in the VPC1 I just took ownership of.


I have the same experience on my MP11SE, but in his recording it seems pretty amplified so I'm guessing it's his device that's amplifying the sound. I didn't even realize the keys *thunked* until he mentioned it and I turn off my DP and tried it out myself, but it's pretty soft. Not something I would worry about at all unless his recording is not amplified and actually sounds like that. I just tried this on my old MP6 (off) and the difference is night and day, I hear a *very* audible thunk while I barely hear it on my MP11SE (off).

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Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2841999
04/24/19 05:16 PM
04/24/19 05:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 127
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FlexHank Offline OP
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Okay everyone, thanks for the replies. Of course I expected Kawai James to avoid the question, and push it back to me, if somehow I am more sensitive. Anyway, I decided to keep it as it is, with a headphone I do not hear anything, and without it is only annoying with low speaker volume. In the end, if this was a 500 usd machine, I would not even bring it up, but for 2000 usd+, you just expect more.

Anyway, I will put it to bed. I am happy in general with the Mp11se, this black key noise is the only disappointment.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2842016
04/24/19 05:43 PM
04/24/19 05:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 168
New York, NY, USA
AnthonyPaulO Offline
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Hank, perhaps it's an unrealistic expectation? I have the MP11SE as well and I can say that with the piano off, if I do that on the black keys the thunk is really really low. I mean, you can hear it but it's so soft. I try the same exact thing an an old DP, the MP6, and the thunk is audible from across the room. I try this on an accoustic and it's loud as well. Perhaps your expectations are based on how insanely quiet the white keys are and so you expect the same from the black keys?

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2842094
04/24/19 10:09 PM
04/24/19 10:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 15,591
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello Hank,

I’m sorry that you felt I was avoiding your question. I told you that I didn’t believe there was a problem with your instrument, and I maintain that this is still the case.

Given the number of potential problems that can occur with a digital piano (the instrument not turning on, buttons failing to register, keys not producing a sound, etc.) a slight variation in the sound heard when certain keys are released is a relatively minor concern, in my opinion.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: AnthonyPaulO] #2842096
04/24/19 10:14 PM
04/24/19 10:14 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,019
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by AnthonyPaulO
Hank, perhaps it's an unrealistic expectation? I have the MP11SE as well and I can say that with the piano off, if I do that on the black keys the thunk is really really low. I mean, you can hear it but it's so soft. I try the same exact thing an an old DP, the MP6, and the thunk is audible from across the room. I try this on an accoustic and it's loud as well. Perhaps your expectations are based on how insanely quiet the white keys are and so you expect the same from the black keys?

+1
I have the MP11 (same action as the SE) and I've owned it almost since they first made them. I'm not bothered at by the mechanical noise. The black keys are louder than the white keys, but it's still not a big deal and certainly hasn't gotten louder over the years of owning and playing it.

I don't think this is a problem, but I do agree with Anthony that perhaps it's an unrealistic expectation for it to be uniformly silent. Think of it more as the character of the instrument. It is, after all, trying to imitate a grand piano action, without being a grand piano action. As a result, there will undoubtedly be some character to it. Al digitals have some character or another, and you have to go with what you are OK with.

The MP11 is really a fine instrument for the money - I find the action to be superb. So I hope that you do come to enjoy it.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2842098
04/24/19 10:17 PM
04/24/19 10:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 168
New York, NY, USA
AnthonyPaulO Offline
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New York, NY, USA
Here's a video I took using an iPhone X of the difference between my MP11SE (with volume turned all the way down) vs MP6 (off) :



First DP is my MP11SE, on but with volume all the way down. The white keys are barely audible at all while with the black keys you can hear a soft thunk and they all vary in level from soft to a little more pronounced. Compare that to the MP6 on the latter half of the video; HUGE difference! Every key makes a big clunky sound.

I think we're so spoiled by the white keys being so unnaturally quiet that when the black keys make a soft thunk sound we may think something is wrong. Keep in mind that you need to have the piano very low or off and a quiet room in order to perceive it. I did not even notice this *at all* until FlexHank mentioned it in this post. As you can see, this is already worlds quieter than the MP6, so to me the overall quiet level of the keys is like being in heaven. It also helps that I don't play pieces that require my piano be off. :P

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: AnthonyPaulO] #2842101
04/24/19 10:37 PM
04/24/19 10:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 627
Z
Zaphod Offline
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Zaphod  Offline
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Originally Posted by AnthonyPaulO
It also helps that I don't play pieces that require my piano be off. :P


No John Cage for you, then.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: AnthonyPaulO] #2842189
04/25/19 05:33 AM
04/25/19 05:33 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 127
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FlexHank Offline OP
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Originally Posted by AnthonyPaulO
Here's a video I took using an iPhone X of the difference between my MP11SE (with volume turned all the way down) vs MP6 (off) :



First DP is my MP11SE, on but with volume all the way down. The white keys are barely audible at all while with the black keys you can hear a soft thunk and they all vary in level from soft to a little more pronounced. Compare that to the MP6 on the latter half of the video; HUGE difference! Every key makes a big clunky sound.

I think we're so spoiled by the white keys being so unnaturally quiet that when the black keys make a soft thunk sound we may think something is wrong. Keep in mind that you need to have the piano very low or off and a quiet room in order to perceive it. I did not even notice this *at all* until FlexHank mentioned it in this post. As you can see, this is already worlds quieter than the MP6, so to me the overall quiet level of the keys is like being in heaven. It also helps that I don't play pieces that require my piano be off. :P


Thanks that helped, I only wanted to know if it was normal (black key noise) or if it was an exception on my machine. By the way, you only hear when you quickly release the black key.

I also verified with dealer, and seems similar.

So, it is what it is.

Thanks for anyone that took my question seriously and responded with actual proof, instead of saying that it is just me being sensitive.

Over to playing again, which is great on the Mp11se

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: HwyStar] #2842276
04/25/19 10:21 AM
04/25/19 10:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,198
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
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Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted by HwyStar
Hey CG! I didn’t realize you were posting on SoundCloud too... Isn’t SoundCloud audio far less compressed than YT?

Just seen that and sorry for the off-topic. I think SoundCloud applies very nasty compression that's audible even to my non-audiophile ears. In comparison YouTube seems largely fine, especially if you switch to HD-video (well maybe it's my imagination but I think when switched to HD-video quality the sound quality is also improved)


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: CyberGene] #2842296
04/25/19 11:21 AM
04/25/19 11:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 18
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Philosobyte Offline
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Philosobyte  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by CyberGene
Originally Posted by HwyStar
Hey CG! I didn’t realize you were posting on SoundCloud too... Isn’t SoundCloud audio far less compressed than YT?

Just seen that and sorry for the off-topic. I think SoundCloud applies very nasty compression that's audible even to my non-audiophile ears. In comparison YouTube seems largely fine, especially if you switch to HD-video (well maybe it's my imagination but I think when switched to HD-video quality the sound quality is also improved)

I remember Soundcloud getting criticism from the general public at some point for having worse compression than YouTube. It doesn't make sense why a dedicated music platform would have worse audio quality than a platform not dedicated to music, but that's what is happening.
YouTube audio streams are now separate from video streams, so changing the video quality will not directly change the audio quality.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: Philosobyte] #2842297
04/25/19 11:27 AM
04/25/19 11:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,198
Sofia, Bulgaria
CyberGene Offline
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CyberGene  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,198
Sofia, Bulgaria
Originally Posted by Philosobyte
YouTube audio streams are now separate from video streams, so changing the video quality will not directly change the audio quality.

Thanks for the information. I've been doing this for ages, so it seems in the past it was true but nowadays I can leave it at whatever video quality is selected automaticallty and expect that audio is OK? That's good to know.


My YouTube, My Soundcloud
Currently: Yamaha N1X, DIY hybrid controller -> Garritan CFX
Previously: NU1X, ES7, MP6, CA63, RD-700SX, CDP-100, FP-5, P90, SP-200
Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2842415
04/25/19 06:06 PM
04/25/19 06:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 506
Virginia
HwyStar Offline
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HwyStar  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 506
Virginia
Thx for the info on SC and YT. I thought it was the other way around. Once again, my bad!


Nord Grand, Kawai MP11 (v1), iMac 2017, Yamaha HS8's, Sennheiser 650, Focusrite 2i4, Pianoteq 6.4.0, Steinway Model A, Mason and Hamlin Model AA, Piano Marvel: 3C
Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2843856
04/30/19 05:12 PM
04/30/19 05:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 220
J
Jasper E. Offline
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Jasper E.  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 220
A few comments here:
1a. for the pianist herself/himself this could be only an issue with crazily low volume setting, which is not best practice at all
1b. this could be an issue for someone trying to sleep in the same room where the pianist is playing with headset

2. there is a theoretical chance that the actual place of the instrument (its environment) strengthens some frequencies. However listening to the video on the issue. I am not sure if this is worth too much to investigate.


Kawai KDP-90
Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2843971
05/01/19 03:38 AM
05/01/19 03:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 175
Hawai'i Island
B
BigIslandGuy Offline
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Hawai'i Island
I just pulled the trigger on one of these and the Z stand last night. I got it for silent practice when I can't be waking up the family with the S&S B. Looking forward to its arrival, with any luck by the end of the week.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: Jasper E.] #2843989
05/01/19 04:42 AM
05/01/19 04:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 127
F
FlexHank Offline OP
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FlexHank  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2019
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Originally Posted by Jasper E.
A few comments here:
1a. for the pianist herself/himself this could be only an issue with crazily low volume setting, which is not best practice at all
1b. this could be an issue for someone trying to sleep in the same room where the pianist is playing with headset

2. there is a theoretical chance that the actual place of the instrument (its environment) strengthens some frequencies. However listening to the video on the issue. I am not sure if this is worth too much to investigate.


True, if I crank up the volume or use headphones, I do not hear the black key release noise.

I do not further investigate, but accept it as it is. This issue is the only disappointment of the Mp11se, for the rest is it a great piano, love to use it.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2843990
05/01/19 04:42 AM
05/01/19 04:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 127
F
FlexHank Offline OP
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FlexHank  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 127
Originally Posted by Jasper E.
A few comments here:
1a. for the pianist herself/himself this could be only an issue with crazily low volume setting, which is not best practice at all
1b. this could be an issue for someone trying to sleep in the same room where the pianist is playing with headset

2. there is a theoretical chance that the actual place of the instrument (its environment) strengthens some frequencies. However listening to the video on the issue. I am not sure if this is worth too much to investigate.


True, if I crank up the volume or use headphones, I do not hear the black key release noise.

I do not further investigate, but accept it as it is. This issue is the only disappointment of the Mp11se, for the rest is it a great piano, love to use it.

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2844141
05/01/19 11:38 AM
05/01/19 11:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 168
New York, NY, USA
AnthonyPaulO Offline
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 168
New York, NY, USA
Originally Posted by FlexHank

True, if I crank up the volume or use headphones, I do not hear the black key release noise.

I do not further investigate, but accept it as it is. This issue is the only disappointment of the Mp11se, for the rest is it a great piano, love to use it.


Well my friend, if you're disappointed in this, then you'll be disappointed in a real piano even more: REAL PIANO KEY SOUNDS

Re: Kawai MP11SE Arrived / Impression and possible questions [Re: FlexHank] #2844195
05/01/19 02:21 PM
05/01/19 02:21 PM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 207
Canada
A
Abdol Offline
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Abdol  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 207
Canada
Originally Posted by FlexHank
Originally Posted by Jasper E.
A few comments here:
1a. for the pianist herself/himself this could be only an issue with crazily low volume setting, which is not best practice at all
1b. this could be an issue for someone trying to sleep in the same room where the pianist is playing with headset

2. there is a theoretical chance that the actual place of the instrument (its environment) strengthens some frequencies. However listening to the video on the issue. I am not sure if this is worth too much to investigate.


True, if I crank up the volume or use headphones, I do not hear the black key release noise.

I do not further investigate, but accept it as it is. This issue is the only disappointment of the Mp11se, for the rest is it a great piano, love to use it.


Maybe it's not that much of a serious problem FlexHank laugh I would have never figured out such an issue myself. Especially If everything plays smoothly and I don't notice any glitches while playing.

I wouldn't bother it or overthink it, my friend it. This would reduce your joy and pleasure while playing the instrument. Don't kill the fun!

Anthony said it pretty well, a real acoustic piano is super clicky and loud! also requires a lot of maintenance... sticky keys and delicate mechanics and felts, tuning etc. you name it!

Play it and if it's smooth, then just keep playing and enjoy wink


Kawai MP7SE, Yamaha MOTF XF6, Yamaha WX5, Yamaha Pacifica 112v
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