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Re: Piano lost magic after first tune? [Re: willpianist] #2836437
04/07/19 12:42 PM
04/07/19 12:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,209
Toronto, Ontario
P
Peter K. Mose Offline
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Peter K. Mose  Offline
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P

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,209
Toronto, Ontario
Will, I would have two or three recommended piano techs each tune your piano in succession over the next 4 to 6 months. Ask each of them their thoughts on voicing at the same time. Live with each of their tunings, and then decide if some voicing remains your preference.

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Re: Piano lost magic after first tune? [Re: willpianist] #2836439
04/07/19 01:07 PM
04/07/19 01:07 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,684
SE USA
WhoDwaldi Offline
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WhoDwaldi  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,684
SE USA
Originally Posted by willpianist


I know my piano is not Steinway but I think the piano is now performing as good as it should be so I am happy now.

Thanks guys for your input.



I thought the charm of Steinway's tone comes from a certain amount of "dirtiness" in tuning/tunability/scale? 😁


WhoDwaldi
Howard (by Kawai) 5' 10"
Re: Piano lost magic after first tune? [Re: Peter K. Mose] #2836474
04/07/19 02:38 PM
04/07/19 02:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,094
New Hampshire
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P W Grey Offline
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P W Grey  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,094
New Hampshire
Originally Posted by Peter K. Mose
Will, I would have two or three recommended piano techs each tune your piano in succession over the next 4 to 6 months. Ask each of them their thoughts on voicing at the same time. Live with each of their tunings, and then decide if some voicing remains your preference.



I respectfully disagree with this. If you like what you are hearing (for the most part) and trust the tech's judgement in the matter, it is better to stick with this person and develop a working relationship. There is some wisdom in postponing voicing work. This allows some compaction of the felt as well as "breaking in" of the action (which can then be adjusted for prior to the first voicing appt. He is advocating some patience vs instant gratification. This is usually a better MO. I think you found the right person.

Pwg

Last edited by P W Grey; 04/07/19 02:39 PM.

Peter W. Grey, RPT
New Hampshire Seacoast
www.seacoastpianodoctor.com
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK0T7_I_nV8
Re: Piano lost magic after first tune? [Re: Hakki] #2841006
04/20/19 05:01 PM
04/20/19 05:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 61
Vienna, Austria
O
OE1FEU Offline
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OE1FEU  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 61
Vienna, Austria
Originally Posted by Hakki
IMO one of the advantages of tuning apps might be that the tunings are similar each time.


If that were the case, an unbalanced soundboard and bridges, loose pins, bad strings, too high and low tensions in the whole acoustic assembly at one point or another would be irrelevant as long as the pitches conform to what an ETD tells you.

You know, there's a lot more to piano tuning than just getting the correct pitch of a string.

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Re: Piano lost magic after first tune? [Re: jsilva] #2841242
04/21/19 04:21 PM
04/21/19 04:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 762
Wisconsin, USA
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Lakeviewsteve Online content
500 Post Club Member
Lakeviewsteve  Online Content
500 Post Club Member
L

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 762
Wisconsin, USA
Originally Posted by jsilva
Glad that you are happy, although the reasons not to ‘voice’ seem strange without knowing what kind of voicing the technician was talking about. Seems to me that the piano being new is reason to voice it, and voicing it for the acoustics of the room is also reason to voice.

But since you’re happy then maybe there’s no reason to pursue it smile


JSilva: What kind of voicing are you talking about?

My piano was brand new when I purchased it. I have been on tours to the factory where I saw their voicing process first hand and all the work they put into it. It can take a week to voice one piano. I have no idea why anyone would suggest voicing a piano on the first tuning because I think it would override the excellent voicing they did at the factory.

Also the op said their piano was brand new and sounded like magic when they brought it home. JSilva, are you suggesting the voicing can go bad in a few weeks? I've never heard of that.

Thank you / Steve

Last edited by Lakeviewsteve; 04/21/19 04:24 PM.

Bösendorfer 170
Re: Piano lost magic after first tune? [Re: OE1FEU] #2841245
04/21/19 04:26 PM
04/21/19 04:26 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 762
Wisconsin, USA
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Lakeviewsteve Online content
500 Post Club Member
Lakeviewsteve  Online Content
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L

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 762
Wisconsin, USA
Originally Posted by OE1FEU
Originally Posted by Hakki
IMO one of the advantages of tuning apps might be that the tunings are similar each time.


If that were the case, an unbalanced soundboard and bridges, loose pins, bad strings, too high and low tensions in the whole acoustic assembly at one point or another would be irrelevant as long as the pitches conform to what an ETD tells you.

You know, there's a lot more to piano tuning than just getting the correct pitch of a string.


Excellent point oe1fe2.


Bösendorfer 170
Re: Piano lost magic after first tune? [Re: willpianist] #2841257
04/21/19 05:37 PM
04/21/19 05:37 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,935
H
Hakki Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Hakki  Offline
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,935
Originally Posted by willpianist
Reporting back two weeks after the technician visit. Was told that he found some of the bass notes a bit off too, and the higher notes should have been tuned a bit sharper (more brilliance) as these notes tend to sound flat.

The tech didn't want to do any voicing to the piano because 1. The piano is too new and 2. Voicing is not reversible and my living room is not acousticly very good so I will regret doing voicing.

The piano sounds quite nice after the tuning and the tune still holds up with average 1 hour of playing time per day for the past 2 weeks.

I know my piano is not Steinway but I think the piano is now performing as good as it should be so I am happy now.

Thanks guys for your input.



So it was just the tuning. This thread was about a brand new Kawai GX-2 that lost magic after first tune and regained it after another tuner tuned it again.

Re: Piano lost magic after first tune? [Re: Lakeviewsteve] #2841306
04/21/19 11:27 PM
04/21/19 11:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,010
Michigan
K
kpembrook Offline
Platinum Subscriber
kpembrook  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,010
Michigan
Originally Posted by Lakeviewsteve


My piano was brand new when I purchased it. I have been on tours to the factory where I saw their voicing process first hand and all the work they put into it. It can take a week to voice one piano. I have no idea why anyone would suggest voicing a piano on the first tuning because I think it would override the excellent voicing they did at the factory.

Also the op said their piano was brand new and sounded like magic when they brought it home. JSilva, are you suggesting the voicing can go bad in a few weeks? I've never heard of that.

Thank you / Steve


Yes, voicing is like tuning or regulating -- both of which change over time and may not be done to the highest level at the factory. In my experience, new pianos are commonly neither regulated nor voiced to their optimum capability.
Reasons that a new piano may need voicing shortly after delivery include:

* piano received a "generic" voicing in the factory resulting in generally acceptable sound but not meeting a particular individual's preferences
* voicing continues to change with usage. If the factory didn't have an extensive "pounding in" facility, the first 30 hours or so of usage can result in dramatic changes to voicing.
*If the factory made liberal use of stiffeners in a "voicing up" approach, the material can continue to harden for months and longer with the result that a formerly middle-of the road or mellow voicing can become quite harsh and bright.

As an aside, a week of voicing is indicative of problem hammers. As a former prominent S&S factory technician once said: " Voicing means bad hammers". Good hammers should not require days and weeks of voicing.


Keith Akins, RPT
Piano Technologist
USA Distributor for Isaac Cadenza hammers and Profundo Bass Strings
Supporting Piano Owners D-I-Y piano tuning and repair
editor emeritus of Piano Technicians Journal
Re: Piano lost magic after first tune? [Re: willpianist] #2842040
04/24/19 07:26 PM
04/24/19 07:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 72
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willpianist Offline OP
Full Member
willpianist  Offline OP
Full Member
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 72
I agree one should not try to undo the sound of a new piano, especially if the piano is expertly voiced to bring out the characteristic sound of that brand at the factory.

My piano is a Kawai regular thought so I am not sure how complete is the factory voicing. Kawai Australia requires dealers to go through the checklist before sending their pianos out, but not sure whether specific instructions are given about voicing. pre delivery checklist I heard rumours from a few tuners here that dealers don't really do much to their pianos, therefore I expect I will need to get a tech myself.

I suspect some work has been done on my piano before delivery, as there are carbon print marks on the hammer. I understand this is to do with a tech making sure all strings are strikes equally.

And back to the original topic my piano still sounds quite nice after a month.


Last edited by willpianist; 04/24/19 07:28 PM.
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