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Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: iPractiseEveryday] #2841398
04/22/19 10:58 AM
04/22/19 10:58 AM
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nicknameTaken Offline
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The CP88 feels way heavier in touch than the P-515

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Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: peterws] #2841420
04/22/19 12:54 PM
04/22/19 12:54 PM
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Gombessa Offline
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Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by Gombessa
I've tried most of the Roland actions. They're not particularly quiet, even by plastic action standards. Ivory feel G, PHA-III, PHA-IV Concert, PHA-IV Standard, PHA-50.... Particularly, they develop a fairly loud key return thump as the top foam strip wears down, and they rattle audibly on glissandos.

Yamaha's GH based actions are probably the next quietest after the Kawai wooden key actions, IMO.


You're wrong. But don't worry about it . . . try the newer ones and see. I've had mine 4 years and it's still quiet. The wife won't let me change for that reason. And I won't either until something better comes along.


I've just played an LX-708, GP-609 and DP-603 yesterday. Both the PHA-50 and Hybrid Grand actions are absolutely fine, but none of the actions are particularly quiet IMO, especially when compared to the Kawai wooden key or Yamaha actions. Sorry to report that, and this isn't meant to disparage your own choice/purchase. It's just what I feel from firsthand experience.


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: anotherscott] #2841564
04/23/19 01:50 AM
04/23/19 01:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 38
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iPractiseEveryday Offline OP
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Originally Posted by anotherscott
Originally Posted by iPractiseEveryday
Originally Posted by Cheshire Chris
My Yamaha P-515 has a very quiet keyboard.

Does that mean the CP88 has a quiet keybed too? Heard that they share the same action

Not exactly the same... specs say
P-515: NWX action
CP88: NW-GH action (same as CP4)


So how does the NW-GH action perform? Is it on the heavy side? And how does it compare in terms of quietness with the other contenders?(mp11se, rd2000, nord piano4 etc)

Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: Gombessa] #2841565
04/23/19 01:54 AM
04/23/19 01:54 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 7,825
Northern England.
peterws Offline
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Originally Posted by Gombessa
Originally Posted by peterws
Originally Posted by Gombessa
I've tried most of the Roland actions. They're not particularly quiet, even by plastic action standards. Ivory feel G, PHA-III, PHA-IV Concert, PHA-IV Standard, PHA-50.... Particularly, they develop a fairly loud key return thump as the top foam strip wears down, and they rattle audibly on glissandos.

Yamaha's GH based actions are probably the next quietest after the Kawai wooden key actions, IMO.


You're wrong. But don't worry about it . . . try the newer ones and see. I've had mine 4 years and it's still quiet. The wife won't let me change for that reason. And I won't either until something better comes along.


I've just played an LX-708, GP-609 and DP-603 yesterday. Both the PHA-50 and Hybrid Grand actions are absolutely fine, but none of the actions are particularly quiet IMO, especially when compared to the Kawai wooden key or Yamaha actions. Sorry to report that, and this isn't meant to disparage your own choice/purchase. It's just what I feel from firsthand experience.


No worries. But I did buy mine mainly because of it's lack of sound compared to that on the FP80 which was so clattery. The later PHA50s aren't bad at all, but the cheaper action is still the quieter, by some margin, my old ears tell me. And this is what the OP wanted to know.


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: iPractiseEveryday] #2841578
04/23/19 04:35 AM
04/23/19 04:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
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Alex C Offline
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Try playing with a pair of noise cancelling headphones. I can't live without them anymore.

Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: Alex C] #2841580
04/23/19 04:43 AM
04/23/19 04:43 AM
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nicknameTaken Offline
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Originally Posted by Alex C
Try playing with a pair of noise cancelling headphones. I can't live without them anymore.


You should know the way they work isn't benefitting the audio quality.
What is even better is a pair of good isolated headphones or in ears.
For over-ear, the Beyerdynamic DT 880 pro is superior to any noise-canceling headphone there is.

Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: nicknameTaken] #2841582
04/23/19 05:25 AM
04/23/19 05:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,168
New York City
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LarryK Offline
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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by Alex C
Try playing with a pair of noise cancelling headphones. I can't live without them anymore.


You should know the way they work isn't benefitting the audio quality.
What is even better is a pair of good isolated headphones or in ears.
For over-ear, the Beyerdynamic DT 880 pro is superior to any noise-canceling headphone there is.


I have never joined the noise canceling headphone party because I know it is impossible to produce the perfect canceling wave so therefore those headphones must be introducing artifacts into the ear. The technology was originally developed so that pilots in a noisy airplane could better hear voices over their headphones, not for listening to music.

I use Etymotic ER4SR in ear phones with the big yellow foam tips. Those tips give me 30dB of noise attenuation which makes a huge difference in terms of the noise floor and allows me to use a lower volume. I live in noisy New York City. These ear phones make riding the train much more pleasant. The down side is that they’re so quiet, you’ll get microphonic noise if you move a lot, I don’t wear any headphones on the street, I want to hear any potentially dangerous situations.

On the piano, I use Denon AH-D7200s. They sound great and do a pretty good job of isolating any action noise. They’re a closed back design, which helps.

Last edited by LarryK; 04/23/19 05:31 AM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: nicknameTaken] #2841609
04/23/19 08:19 AM
04/23/19 08:19 AM
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Alex C Offline
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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by Alex C
Try playing with a pair of noise cancelling headphones. I can't live without them anymore.


You should know the way they work isn't benefitting the audio quality.
What is even better is a pair of good isolated headphones or in ears.
For over-ear, the Beyerdynamic DT 880 pro is superior to any noise-canceling headphone there is.


There are always better headphones but it's definitely good enough for me. And the great benefit is that they actually do cancel out keyboard and computer noises (and even the noise from heavy construction work in the street) like no other (certainly more than the DT-880 which is a semi-open design and doesn't do a good job blocking ambient noises). And they are probably more comfy to wear too. It's a welcome solution for people like me who are really allergic to keybed noises.

Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: LarryK] #2841612
04/23/19 08:26 AM
04/23/19 08:26 AM
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Alex C Offline
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Originally Posted by LarryK


I have never joined the noise canceling headphone party because I know it is impossible to produce the perfect canceling wave so therefore those headphones must be introducing artifacts into the ear. The technology was originally developed so that pilots in a noisy airplane could better hear voices over their headphones, not for listening to music.



They really sound surprisingly good. What artifacts are you talking about?

Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: Alex C] #2841621
04/23/19 08:59 AM
04/23/19 08:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 185
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nicknameTaken Offline
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Originally Posted by Alex C
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by Alex C
Try playing with a pair of noise cancelling headphones. I can't live without them anymore.


You should know the way they work isn't benefitting the audio quality.
What is even better is a pair of good isolated headphones or in ears.
For over-ear, the Beyerdynamic DT 880 pro is superior to any noise-canceling headphone there is.


There are always better headphones but it's definitely good enough for me. And the great benefit is that they actually do cancel out keyboard and computer noises (and even the noise from heavy construction work in the street) like no other (certainly more than the DT-880 which is a semi-open design and doesn't do a good job blocking ambient noises). And they are probably more comfy to wear too. It's a welcome solution for people like me who are really allergic to keybed noises.


Hmm, I thought it was closed. But you are actually right. It's semi-open. Wheres the difference between that and closed?

Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: nicknameTaken] #2841632
04/23/19 09:51 AM
04/23/19 09:51 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,144
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,144
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by Alex C
There are always better headphones but it's definitely good enough for me. And the great benefit is that they actually do cancel out keyboard and computer noises (and even the noise from heavy construction work in the street) like no other (certainly more than the DT-880 which is a semi-open design and doesn't do a good job blocking ambient noises). And they are probably more comfy to wear too. It's a welcome solution for people like me who are really allergic to keybed noises.


Hmm, I thought it was closed. But you are actually right. It's semi-open. Wheres the difference between that and closed?

See this.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: Alex C] #2841638
04/23/19 10:02 AM
04/23/19 10:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,168
New York City
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LarryK Offline
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LarryK  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
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New York City
Originally Posted by Alex C
Originally Posted by LarryK


I have never joined the noise canceling headphone party because I know it is impossible to produce the perfect canceling wave so therefore those headphones must be introducing artifacts into the ear. The technology was originally developed so that pilots in a noisy airplane could better hear voices over their headphones, not for listening to music.



They really sound surprisingly good. What artifacts are you talking about?


Noise canceling headphones operate by using a microphone to pick up ambient noise and then they generate a negative waveform to cancel that noise. I don’t believe this process can ever work perfectly so they must me injecting audio artifacts into the ear.

I’m not willing to take a chance on exposing my ear to whatever is being generated and have always been happy with passive attenuation and never felt the need for more.

Etymotic claims 35-42dB of noise attenuation here:

https://www.etymotic.com/consumer/earphones/er3-new.html


Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2841640
04/23/19 10:09 AM
04/23/19 10:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 185
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nicknameTaken Offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by Alex C
There are always better headphones but it's definitely good enough for me. And the great benefit is that they actually do cancel out keyboard and computer noises (and even the noise from heavy construction work in the street) like no other (certainly more than the DT-880 which is a semi-open design and doesn't do a good job blocking ambient noises). And they are probably more comfy to wear too. It's a welcome solution for people like me who are really allergic to keybed noises.


Hmm, I thought it was closed. But you are actually right. It's semi-open. Wheres the difference between that and closed?

See this.


Oh right, looking back at my model I have the DT 770 Pro at work and the DT 990 pro at home.

Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: iPractiseEveryday] #2841643
04/23/19 10:22 AM
04/23/19 10:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,168
New York City
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LarryK Offline
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New York City
One other point, just because you don’t hear the artifacts does not mean they’re not causing damage.

I knew guys who worked in top secret government labs where they blasted white noise all day so that you could not hear a conversation that was taking place six feet from you. They told me that the first day they worked there, the noise was unbearable. After a couple of days, you don’t hear the noise, the ear becomes fatigued and filters it out. But, you’re still being exposed to the noise.

Last edited by LarryK; 04/23/19 10:22 AM.

Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: LarryK] #2841645
04/23/19 10:27 AM
04/23/19 10:27 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,144
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,144
Originally Posted by LarryK
One other point, just because you don’t hear the artifacts does not mean they’re not causing damage.

I knew guys who worked in top secret government labs where they blasted white noise all day so that you could not hear a conversation that was taking place six feet from you. They told me that the first day they worked there, the noise was unbearable. After a couple of days, you don’t hear the noise, the ear becomes fatigued and filters it out. But, you’re still being exposed to the noise.

Well in reality, it might have been annoying, but it couldn't have been that loud from the perspective of absolute sound pressure level. OSHA sets legal limits on noise exposure in the workplace such as allowing 8 hours of exposure to 90 dBA but only 2 hours of exposure to 100 dBA sound levels.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2841649
04/23/19 10:38 AM
04/23/19 10:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,168
New York City
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LarryK Offline
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New York City
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
One other point, just because you don’t hear the artifacts does not mean they’re not causing damage.

I knew guys who worked in top secret government labs where they blasted white noise all day so that you could not hear a conversation that was taking place six feet from you. They told me that the first day they worked there, the noise was unbearable. After a couple of days, you don’t hear the noise, the ear becomes fatigued and filters it out. But, you’re still being exposed to the noise.

Well in reality, it might have been annoying, but it couldn't have been that loud from the perspective of absolute sound pressure level. OSHA sets legal limits on noise exposure in the workplace such as allowing 8 hours of exposure to 90 dBA but only 2 hours of exposure to 100 dBA sound levels.


Like I trust OSHA, lol.

The long term effects of exposure to white noise are unknown, and may be harmful.

https://www.sciencealert.com/white-...-tinnitus-hearing-loss-plasticity-neural

I see no need to take the chance. Active noise cancellation did not sound good to me the one time I tried it, and passive means have always been enough.


Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: LarryK] #2841650
04/23/19 10:43 AM
04/23/19 10:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,144
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline

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Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,144
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
One other point, just because you don’t hear the artifacts does not mean they’re not causing damage.

I knew guys who worked in top secret government labs where they blasted white noise all day so that you could not hear a conversation that was taking place six feet from you. They told me that the first day they worked there, the noise was unbearable. After a couple of days, you don’t hear the noise, the ear becomes fatigued and filters it out. But, you’re still being exposed to the noise.

Well in reality, it might have been annoying, but it couldn't have been that loud from the perspective of absolute sound pressure level. OSHA sets legal limits on noise exposure in the workplace such as allowing 8 hours of exposure to 90 dBA but only 2 hours of exposure to 100 dBA sound levels.


Like I trust OSHA, lol.

The long term effects of exposure to white noise are unknown, and may be harmful.

https://www.sciencealert.com/white-...-tinnitus-hearing-loss-plasticity-neural

I see no need to take the chance. Active noise cancellation did not sound good to me the one time I tried it, and passive means have always been enough.

Oh, I wasn't talking about the noise cancellation. I was referring to the white noise in the lab. I was saying that such white noise couldn't actually have been that loud even if annoying because of OSHA workplace regulations.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: Tyrone Slothrop] #2841653
04/23/19 10:52 AM
04/23/19 10:52 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,168
New York City
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LarryK Offline
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LarryK  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 1,168
New York City
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by LarryK
One other point, just because you don’t hear the artifacts does not mean they’re not causing damage.

I knew guys who worked in top secret government labs where they blasted white noise all day so that you could not hear a conversation that was taking place six feet from you. They told me that the first day they worked there, the noise was unbearable. After a couple of days, you don’t hear the noise, the ear becomes fatigued and filters it out. But, you’re still being exposed to the noise.

Well in reality, it might have been annoying, but it couldn't have been that loud from the perspective of absolute sound pressure level. OSHA sets legal limits on noise exposure in the workplace such as allowing 8 hours of exposure to 90 dBA but only 2 hours of exposure to 100 dBA sound levels.


Like I trust OSHA, lol.

The long term effects of exposure to white noise are unknown, and may be harmful.

https://www.sciencealert.com/white-...-tinnitus-hearing-loss-plasticity-neural

I see no need to take the chance. Active noise cancellation did not sound good to me the one time I tried it, and passive means have always been enough.

Oh, I wasn't talking about the noise cancellation. I was referring to the white noise in the lab. I was saying that such white noise couldn't actually have been that loud even if annoying because of OSHA workplace regulations.


I know, my point is that the long term effects of working in that environment are unknown. My friends perceived the noise as loud. I don’t know the level of the noise, I never went there. I just wouldn’t expose myself to that noise day after day, year after year, even if it met OSHA requirements.


Yamaha U1 Silent Piano
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: LarryK] #2841655
04/23/19 11:00 AM
04/23/19 11:00 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,144
Tyrone Slothrop Offline
Tyrone Slothrop  Offline

7000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 7,144
Originally Posted by LarryK
I know, my point is that the long term effects of working in that environment are unknown. My friends perceived the noise as loud. I don’t know the level of the noise, I never went there. I just wouldn’t expose myself to that noise day after day, year after year, even if it met OSHA requirements.

Yes, of course. That's why the more modern way of not overhearing top secret conversations in a government facility is to use a SCIF instead. SCIFs can cost less than $100K each and won't tax ones ears the way you described at that lab. SCIFs are the modern-day "cone of silence." Even small private companies undertaking highly classified government work have their own SCIFs these days.


across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Finding The Keyboard With Least Mechanical Noise... [Re: iPractiseEveryday] #2841682
04/23/19 12:50 PM
04/23/19 12:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 9,469
Raleigh, North Carolina
MacMacMac Offline
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Posts: 9,469
Raleigh, North Carolina
Try this. It's noise-cancelling.
It's a SCIF.
It's ideal !
[Linked Image]

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