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Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Jethro #2841571 04/23/19 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jethro
Thanks everyone. I’m looking forward to playing the SK2. The VPC1 is up and running and it’s exactly the instrument I was hoping it would be. I could see it being the perfect practice instrument when I’m away from home. The action is somewhat lighter than my Rx2 or the Shigeru I am in the process of purchasing though not as precise obviously as the millennium 3 action in both of those. Able to play with good velocity whether in the keys or towards the edge. What I have to get used to is the texture of the black keys which is grippier than I am used to and I could almost swear the black keys feel slimmer than on a normal acoustic but this could just be my imagination. Both Ravenscroft software and Pianoteq are great on this controller but I have yet to fully figure out proper touch curve settings for the Ravenscroft. I like the fact that the power button changes color to let you know which touch setting you currently are on. Nice touch (no pun intended). Just as before the pianoteq has a slight edge in phrasing and expressiveness and the Ravenscroft produces a better sound. I can use both programs depending on what kind of classical music I am playing. The Ravenscroft does well with the Bach Busoni I am working on and the pianoteq on Chopin G minor Ballade. Bach has that more digital and inner voicing kind of music and the romantic literature of Chopin has a more singing melody line. Of course Bach’s music is very expressive but maybe in a different way instrument wise. I like the substantial feel of the action in the VPC-1. You need to put some effort into it so you get a great finger workout which will help as I go back between the digital and the acoustic. When I went back to the RX2 after playing the non -weighted 49 key controller it took time to get used to the heavy action on my RX2. I don’t see this being a problem with the VPC1’s nice meaty action. That’s it thus far in regards to my review. I would say the VPC1 is perfectly fine to learn the piano if this was your first piano no major negatives that I found.

Velocity touch settings for Ravenscroft is similar to Pianoteq in Kawai editor but sent email to Vilabs and they will sent you proper velocity curve especially for Ravenscroft. Till then use Pianoteq velocity. When I bought my VPC1 5 years ago for me the only logical way after that digital piano is acoustic piano. I still love it very much. Congratulations for SK2.

Last edited by slobajudge; 04/23/19 03:29 AM.
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
slobajudge #2841616 04/23/19 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by slobajudge
Originally Posted by Jethro
Thanks everyone. I’m looking forward to playing the SK2. The VPC1 is up and running and it’s exactly the instrument I was hoping it would be. I could see it being the perfect practice instrument when I’m away from home. The action is somewhat lighter than my Rx2 or the Shigeru I am in the process of purchasing though not as precise obviously as the millennium 3 action in both of those. Able to play with good velocity whether in the keys or towards the edge. What I have to get used to is the texture of the black keys which is grippier than I am used to and I could almost swear the black keys feel slimmer than on a normal acoustic but this could just be my imagination. Both Ravenscroft software and Pianoteq are great on this controller but I have yet to fully figure out proper touch curve settings for the Ravenscroft. I like the fact that the power button changes color to let you know which touch setting you currently are on. Nice touch (no pun intended). Just as before the pianoteq has a slight edge in phrasing and expressiveness and the Ravenscroft produces a better sound. I can use both programs depending on what kind of classical music I am playing. The Ravenscroft does well with the Bach Busoni I am working on and the pianoteq on Chopin G minor Ballade. Bach has that more digital and inner voicing kind of music and the romantic literature of Chopin has a more singing melody line. Of course Bach’s music is very expressive but maybe in a different way instrument wise. I like the substantial feel of the action in the VPC-1. You need to put some effort into it so you get a great finger workout which will help as I go back between the digital and the acoustic. When I went back to the RX2 after playing the non -weighted 49 key controller it took time to get used to the heavy action on my RX2. I don’t see this being a problem with the VPC1’s nice meaty action. That’s it thus far in regards to my review. I would say the VPC1 is perfectly fine to learn the piano if this was your first piano no major negatives that I found.

Velocity touch settings for Ravenscroft is similar to Pianoteq in Kawai editor but sent email to Vilabs and they will sent you proper velocity curve especially for Ravenscroft. Till then use Pianoteq velocity. When I bought my VPC1 5 years ago for me the only logical way after that digital piano is acoustic piano. I still love it very much. Congratulations for SK2.

Thanks, I noticed that I preferred the Pianoteq settings when I accidently kept them active going from Pianoteq to Ravenscroft. I will contact VIlabs.


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
IosPlayer #2841617 04/23/19 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by IosPlayer
Wow, Jethro! A once in a lifetime story. I did that once with a house in St. Augustine. Expect the unexpected! I just feel sorry for your VPC1. It probably feels like the neglected sibling.

Oh the VPC1 will be used more than the Shigeru. I have no choice frown


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Morten Olsson #2841618 04/23/19 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Morten Olsson
Congrats on the awesome acoustic.
Looking forward to hearing how you get along with the VPC1 - close to pulling the trigger on one myself.

If you are new to the piano it is a perfectly fine solution that should last you many years of enjoyment. Just remember it needs a computer to work.


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Jethro #2841619 04/23/19 08:57 AM
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Congrats Jethro! Looks like you went in for the $1 DVD bundle advertised and walked out with a whole set of furniture, lol! Sounds like you're set for life though, good for you, glad it all worked out!

Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Jethro #2841620 04/23/19 08:59 AM
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Hi Jethro! I would be very interested in the ratio of VPC1 to SK2. On my VPC1 I measure a downweight of 60-65g in mid octave. Maybe you have the possibility to measure the SK2 as well.

Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Jethro #2841629 04/23/19 09:41 AM
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Just read the conversation about possibilities for piano sounds ... I bought the V3 grand piano sound expander 2 weeks ago. Just plug in and play. I often don´t want to turn on my computer and software to play some piano (at night) or to compose and working out just some ideas. here: http://www.v3sound.com/de/d-produkt-grandpiano-xxl.html

Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
aphexdisklavier #2841630 04/23/19 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
Just read the conversation about possibilities for piano sounds ... I bought the V3 grand piano sound expander 2 weeks ago. Just plug in and play. I often don´t want to turn on my computer and software to play some piano (at night) or to compose and working out just some ideas. here: http://www.v3sound.com/de/d-produkt-grandpiano-xxl.html

I have a small $160 mini-PC dedicated to my DP (and running Pianoteq) and it is left on all the time so I don't have to turn on anything or start any software when I sit down at the keyboard in the wee hours of the morning. It does add something to the cost, but not really that much and it is very small.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Tyrone Slothrop #2841631 04/23/19 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
Just read the conversation about possibilities for piano sounds ... I bought the V3 grand piano sound expander 2 weeks ago. Just plug in and play. I often don´t want to turn on my computer and software to play some piano (at night) or to compose and working out just some ideas. here: http://www.v3sound.com/de/d-produkt-grandpiano-xxl.html

I have a small $160 mini-PC dedicated to my DP (and running Pianoteq) and it is left on all the time so I don't have to turn on anything or start any software when I sit down at the keyboard in the wee hours of the morning. It does add something to the cost, but not really that much and it is very small.


I have a high-end rig which happens to be used as DAW, too smile.
I wouldn't go so far to buy a second device, as of now.

Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
nicknameTaken #2841633 04/23/19 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by nicknameTaken
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
Just read the conversation about possibilities for piano sounds ... I bought the V3 grand piano sound expander 2 weeks ago. Just plug in and play. I often don´t want to turn on my computer and software to play some piano (at night) or to compose and working out just some ideas. here: http://www.v3sound.com/de/d-produkt-grandpiano-xxl.html

I have a small $160 mini-PC dedicated to my DP (and running Pianoteq) and it is left on all the time so I don't have to turn on anything or start any software when I sit down at the keyboard in the wee hours of the morning. It does add something to the cost, but not really that much and it is very small.


I have a high-end rig which happens to be used as DAW, too smile.
I wouldn't go so far to buy a second device, as of now.

Well, except that my special dedicated mini-PC and the software (Pianoteq) combined are less than the $400+ for the Grand Piano XXL. So it's like I made my own Grand Piano XXL device out of a $160 mini-PC and a $150 piece of software! smile


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Tyrone Slothrop #2841634 04/23/19 09:56 AM
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Hey Tyrone!

Is that mini-PC you're using something along the lines of the Intel Compute / Quantum Access sticks? If so, is it more than enough to handle the load of those memory-intensive (possibly compute intensive) VST's?

Anthony

Last edited by AnthonyPaulO; 04/23/19 09:57 AM.
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
AnthonyPaulO #2841639 04/23/19 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyPaulO
Hey Tyrone!

Is that mini-PC you're using something along the lines of the Intel Compute / Quantum Access sticks? If so, is it more than enough to handle the load of those memory-intensive (possibly compute intensive) VST's?

Anthony

OMG. Don't get one of those! I already had one of those (because I thought it interesting to have a portable PC I can keep in my wallet) and tried with Pianoteq and it just didn't have enough storage space for a VST.

No, my mini-PC is this one, an AK1. But I got it last March. If I were going to do the same thing today, then their current model is a GK2. I maybe upgrading my current mini-PC soon though, but only because of G.A.S. as a computer person and not because there is anything wrong with the AK1 I am using. It runs Pianoteq fine.

But if I do upgrade, it won't be to the GK1, but to the most ridiculously over-powered custom-built PC that I can have made for me that does not require a fan. (Piano is incompatible with fan noise.) Of course the no-fan requirement will limit the expense tremendously. These days, the most powerful processors all produce too much heat for just conduction/convection only cooling.

BTW, I'm also now running a DAW, REAPER, on my AK1 and I use a few apps for piano, like Zoom.us. No problems at all. And it runs quietly indeed. I hide it away on a little shelf behind my DP and usually never think about it.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Jethro #2841644 04/23/19 10:26 AM
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The V3 Grand Piano XXL module makes no noise at all and does not need a display or anything else. I can turn it on and off in a second. wink
Yes I know its not cheap, but I dont want to miss it ....

Last edited by aphexdisklavier; 04/23/19 10:27 AM.
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
aphexdisklavier #2841648 04/23/19 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by aphexdisklavier
The V3 Grand Piano XXL module makes no noise at all and does not need a display or anything else. I can turn it on and off in a second. wink
Yes I know its not cheap, but I dont want to miss it ....

Not going to beat this one to death, but as mentioned above, my mini-PC is silent because it uses no fan, I almost never turn it on since I have it always on, and further if all I was using my mini-PC for was running my Pianoteq and that's all, it wouldn't need a display either as I could just set it up to autoboot with Pianoteq. In practice, haven't done that since I do use my mini-PC for other stuff - as mentioned a DAW and some programs like Zoom.us, so I do keep a display on it.

But on the other hand, I find the display also convenient for piano since one of the things I run on the mini-PC is MuseScore and I use it to display scores to play on the piano.

Didn't mean in anyway to disparage your Grand Piano XXL. I'm certain it's a good device if you are happy with it. Just wanted to mention an alternative for those facing a similar choice which is price-comparable with the one you took.

BTW, for those curious, I've posted a pic of my piano nook before on this forum. The mini-PC I am talking about is so small you can't even see it in this photo. It's actually on the 3rd shelf down on the upper right of the photo, hiding behind some other things. Always on, makes not a sound (conduction/convection is soundless) and fast enough for my purposes. Any replacement I get for this will also be small, soundless, and always-on, as those are sort of my fundamental requirements for any "piano PC."


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Jethro #2841668 04/23/19 11:51 AM
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My gaming rig runs whenever I am awake anyway, which is probably why the startup time (and the fact that the program does not recognize the VPC if it is turned on after starting the program) bothers me so much.

Pianoteq is just instantly ready for action. laugh


The backbone of modern industrial society is, and for the foreseeable future will be, the use of electrical Power.
VPC 1 -> Pianoteq 6 Std | Garritan CFX / Pearl Alto Flute 201
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Granyala #2841672 04/23/19 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Granyala
My gaming rig runs whenever I am awake anyway, which is probably why the startup time (and the fact that the program does not recognize the VPC if it is turned on after starting the program) bothers me so much.

Pianoteq is just instantly ready for action. laugh

Funny you should mention that. I always leave my DP (FP30) on with my "piano PC" so that's "almost" never an issue. However, when Window10 forces an update "down my throat", and my piano PC reboots by itself, for some reason I don't quite understand, my FP30 powers off.

I assume it has to do with some MIDI command being sent from PC to DP during the stealthy shutdown. So sometimes (once in 2 weeks or so when these annoying Win10 updates happen), I will come to my piano and find it shut off and the PC rebooted, and then when I turn the DP on, it has the issues you describe with connecting to Pianoteq.

This is annoying since I am purposely trying to create a transparent environment for piano, and even once in two weeks is too much and no longer fully transparent.

However, I understand that with the next Win10 service pack release, Microsoft is finally backing off the forced updates thing, and I will be very happy and definitely turn this mis-feature (of forced updates) off.


[Linked Image]
across the stone, deathless piano performances

"Discipline is more reliable than motivation." -by a contributor on Reddit r/piano
"Success is 10% inspiration, and 90% perspiration." -by some other wise person
"Pianoteq manages to keep it all together yet simultaneously also go in all directions; like a quantum particle entangled with an unknown and spooky parallel universe simply waiting to be discovered." -by Pete14
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Tyrone Slothrop #2841677 04/23/19 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Funny you should mention that. I always leave my DP (FP30) on with my "piano PC" so that's "almost" never an issue. However, when Window10 forces an update "down my throat", and my piano PC reboots by itself, for some reason I don't quite understand, my FP30 powers off.

I assume it has to do with some MIDI command being sent from PC to DP during the stealthy shutdown. So sometimes (once in 2 weeks or so when these annoying Win10 updates happen), I will come to my piano and find it shut off and the PC rebooted, and then when I turn the DP on, it has the issues you describe with connecting to Pianoteq.

This is annoying since I am purposely trying to create a transparent environment for piano, and even once in two weeks is too much and no longer fully transparent.

However, I understand that with the next Win10 service pack release, Microsoft is finally backing off the forced updates thing, and I will be very happy and definitely turn this mis-feature (of forced updates) off.


Isn't this due to the auto-off feature on the FP 30? What happens when you disable it?

Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
AnthonyPaulO #2841713 04/23/19 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyPaulO
Congrats Jethro! Looks like you went in for the $1 DVD bundle advertised and walked out with a whole set of furniture, lol! Sounds like you're set for life though, good for you, glad it all worked out!

I know smile . I ask myself if this was an impulse buy, and in some ways yes, but I got such a good a deal that I would be kicking myself for the rest of my life for not buying it at what he was asking for just to get it moved before he closes that location for good. I already have some interest in my RX-2 and a local church may be interested. If anyone else is interested it is on Pianomart under 2007 Kawai RX-2.

Last edited by Jethro; 04/23/19 03:22 PM.

Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Kawai James #2841720 04/23/19 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by Jethro
I like the fact that the power button changes color to let you know which touch setting you currently are on.


You are right, in a sense, however the power button LED colour actually represents the selected preset memory. It just happens that - out of the box - the 1st preset memory uses the "Normal" touch curve, the 2nd preset memory uses the "Ivory" touch curve etc. however these touch curves can be moved around/adjusted as desired using the VPC Editor software.

Kind regards,
James
x

Kawai James, is it my imagination or are the black keys on the VPC1 ever so slightly less wide than on an acoustic piano? If they aren't I would have to say if feels that way to me. Maybe it's the rough texture on the key top that's throwing me off.


Working on:

Bach/Busoni Chaconne in D minor BWV 1004
Chopin: G Minor Ballade
Schumann/Liszt Widmung

Shigeru Kawai SK2
Kawai VPC-1
Re: Best digital piano action under $2500?
Jethro #2841733 04/23/19 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Jethro

Kawai James, is it my imagination or are the black keys on the VPC1 ever so slightly less wide than on an acoustic piano? If they aren't I would have to say if feels that way to me. Maybe it's the rough texture on the key top that's throwing me off.


There's no standard for black key width. Some are wide, some are narrow. On the Yamaha range, I think the uprights and smaller grands tend to have wider sharps (perhaps easier for kids and early learners), and the larger grands have narrower sharps.

Some folks with fat fingers complain that the wider sharps are harder to play because their fingers get stuck between them!


Yamaha P-85, P-105, CP50, Kawai MP11 || Kawai NV-10
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