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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2828296
03/18/19 12:53 PM
03/18/19 12:53 PM
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I definitely have been playing M17-21 (and the rest of the piece) with a healthy dose of dynamics, rubato, and I think it sounds great. Of course, some of this is a crutch as I'm not as fast or good as you are, but nonetheless the dynamics bring out interesting phrasing.

I'm happy that as a month has passed, I've completed the first stage of learning. I can play through the piece with few mistakes. I don't yet have it completely "in the fingers" yet, though, and sometimes have to double check to see what's next, or if the Dmin chord is F-A-D or A-D-F in the L hand, for example. I also have to become more comfortable with a few chords at the end, get the transitions down, and generally make it more reliable. Didn't yet record as planned. Getting there though!


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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2828308
03/18/19 01:11 PM
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As I mentioned in the other thread about Lisitsa's recordings of the complete solo piano works of Tchaikovsky, I am a little disappointed in her performance of "The Seasons" and of "October" among them. In some of the works, she willfully ignores the dynamic and phrase markings in the score. While these pieces are - according to the commission from Bernard - of moderate difficulty, Lisitsa lets loose whenever she can to - in my opinion - exaggerate the tempo, making virtuoso works of some sections.

This may be poetic licence, but, exciting as it may be from a technical prowess point of view, I wonder if she doesn't go over the top in some of her interpretations. One can't help but admire the technique that she displays in some sections of some of the works, but I am not totally convinced.

I still prefer Lugansky's reading of the pieces in this opus.

I would be interested what others think if you get a chance to listen to Lisitsa's "October."

Regards,


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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2828345
03/18/19 03:33 PM
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I have listened, although it was her YouTube recording of the entire Seasons collection, and I am not sure that the recording was the same. However, I do agree that I favor Katia's expression on the piece. I think Lisitsa really shines on some of her Beethoven sonatas and other pieces like Gaspard...maybe she thrives on the speed and the big chords?


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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2828445
03/18/19 08:57 PM
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I listened to Lisitsa’s October from the entire Seasons recording also. At 6:10, I think her version is too slow, sounds plodding at times, and is 1 minute slower than Khatia’s. I prefer Khatia’s performance. I also like Yekwon Sunwoo’s version.




Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: PianogrlNW] #2828635
03/19/19 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by PianogrlNW
I listened to Lisitsa’s October from the entire Seasons recording also. At 6:10, I think her version is too slow, sounds plodding at times, and is 1 minute slower than Khatia’s. I prefer Khatia’s performance. I also like Yekwon Sunwoo’s version.



I totally agree. In fact, it was Sunwoo's encore performance of this piece, which I was fortunate to hear live when he gave a recital in my town, that inspired me to learn this piece. I'm not a big fan of Lisitsa in general, to be honest, even though I do appreciate her virtuosity. I also find her manner of doing a finger dance and "stroking keys" (which many fans admire so much) somewhat pretentious and definitely unnecessary in a piece like "October."

Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: dumka1] #2828646
03/19/19 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by dumka1
I also find her manner of doing a finger dance and "stroking keys" (which many fans admire so much) somewhat pretentious and definitely unnecessary in a piece like "October."

My current theory is that her professor at the Kiev Conservatory taught her to be a keyboard stroker. Since her husband appears to have given up his piano career in favor of hers, I can only find one Youtube video of him playing, and in this one he seems to also be a keyboard stroker, although a much lesser one than her, and he had the same professor. I might have missed some of his videos though since his name is a common one. Since their mutual Kiev Conservatory professor Ludmilla Tsvierko passed in 2006, I can't find a single Youtube video of her playing, although I tried in both Ukrainian and Russian.


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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: dumka1] #2828648
03/19/19 12:00 PM
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I totally agree also....excellent rendition. I'm not familiar with Sunwoo.


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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: cmb13] #2828727
03/19/19 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cmb13


I totally agree also....excellent rendition. I'm not familiar with Sunwoo.


He's the most recent winner of the van Cliburn competition (the only one I vaguely followed).

I also love Ashkenazi's rendition.

Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2829739
03/21/19 11:18 PM
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Here is my recording. Feel free to comment. This is a work in progress and am looking forward to hearing other interpretations from the group.

Tchaikovsky The Seasons, October



Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2829988
03/22/19 12:59 PM
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PianogrlNW:

I think you have done a nice job on this.

Two things you might want to double check: At times - but not always - the measures with triplets, particularly measures 5 and 6 (and where that same pattern recurs), are slightly faster than the measures which precede, (1 through 4, for example). You might want to set your basic tempo based on the measures with triplets rather than set it based on the opening measures. That said, even some professionals do this as well, Lisitsa, among others.

Make sure that the last note of the phrase in the left hand at the second beat of measure 27 and the second beat of measure 28 is a "lift-off," a note which should be softer than the note before. It works better the first time, in measures 13 and 14.

These are small details. The overall effect is quite convincing and quite beautifully played.

Thank you for sharing.

Regards,


BruceD
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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2830005
03/22/19 01:18 PM
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Of course, the very introspective and reflective nature of this particular piece may not only justify but almost require flexibility of tempo. We certainly don't want it to sound metronomic. That flexibility should be organic, however, should flow naturally from the music and be convincing in its logic.

I "hate" this all-too-brief time limitation on editing posts!


Regards,


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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2830076
03/22/19 03:26 PM
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Great job, Ellen! I like how it sounds. You played it beautifully, and clearly have all the notes. I am playing it more slowly, but I'm not sure if it's because I like slower (which I do, as I feel it brings out the desperation of the piece), or because I can't play it more quickly! Regardless, I'm not quite ready yet and I'm traveling this week, so there's a slight setback, but I'll get there in time.

I really liked the ending, the decrescendo and slowing. I wasn't sure how to pedal those last few notes, but I think finger legato alone is right, and that's how it seems you played them.

Last edited by cmb13; 03/22/19 03:28 PM.

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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2830193
03/22/19 11:10 PM
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Craig and Bruce, Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment. Craig, if you can play it more slowly that’s great. It was hard for me to slow the tempo down. I think it is harder to play a piece slowly because you need greater control to make it sound musical.

Bruce, Figuring out how to play rubato and make it sound natural is something I’m still working on. It needs to sound organic and somewhat spontaneous. I made many recordings and noted that in Measure 26-28 I needed to make that last note in the RH softer than the previous note but it did not happen in the recording I posted. I appreciate your insightful comments. Thanks



Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: PianogrlNW] #2830313
03/23/19 09:18 AM
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Ellen, this was lovely. You brought out the melody in the left hand beautifully. The only thing I'd suggest (besides the softer "second" notes that Bruce has already commented on) is perhaps to add more rubato in some places. Some passages, especially in the middle part, sounded a bit too even to me, and it would be nice to add some variety, especially for all those repetitions. (I see that you've discussed rubato above, too, but I thought of this comment before I saw this).

Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2830545
03/23/19 06:53 PM
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Dumka1 - thanks for your helpful comment about the middle section needing more rubato. It’s a work in progress!



Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2841250
04/21/19 04:51 PM
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I've finally completed it. After I thought I completed it, I tried to record the piece a few weeks ago, but it turns out that time, it was not as completed as I thought smile. A few weeks later and I can largely play through it error free. I recorded a take I'm happy with and will present it for the next recital.

Thanks again to Richard for all your help and introducing us to this piece, and to the others who learned and contributed as well.


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Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2841611
04/23/19 08:25 AM
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Glad to hear this, Craig! I'll probably be submitting Tchaikovsky's "April," so "The Seasons" will be well represented.

Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2841623
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That's great, Craig. Well done!

My part was rather small but thanks for the mention.


Richard
Re: Tchaikovsky: October, Op. 37 - Study Group [Re: zrtf90] #2843456
04/29/19 12:52 PM
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Thanks, Richard!
Dumka, looking forward to hearing it.
Hope some else finds this useful on the future. Lot of good info here!


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