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piano audio to midi EVERYONE FAILS ! #2841224
04/21/19 01:44 PM
04/21/19 01:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3
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hastoy Offline OP
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hastoy  Offline OP
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H

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 3
Hi,

I don't get it, speech recognition works very well and it's probably a lot more difficult than piano recognition yet no software out there no matter the price is able to do polyphonic piano recognition correctly. The "best" being Melodyne and it's totally unusable it's so bad at recognizing bass notes. Why is that ? Doesn't machine learning work on the piano ? I don't get it... You guys don't want a score created in seconds of your favorite piano recordings ? Jazz improvs only I guess since we have the score for classical music wink

Cheers smile

Guillaume

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Re: piano audio to midi EVERYONE FAILS ! [Re: hastoy] #2841277
04/21/19 07:01 PM
04/21/19 07:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
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backto_study_piano  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373
Queensland, Australia
You could also ask the Pianist Forum - they might have found something?


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: piano audio to midi EVERYONE FAILS ! [Re: hastoy] #2841289
04/21/19 08:00 PM
04/21/19 08:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,104
Richmond, BC, Canada
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Charles Cohen Offline
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Charles Cohen  Offline
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C

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 5,104
Richmond, BC, Canada
Originally Posted by hastoy
Hi,

I don't get it, speech recognition works very well and it's probably a lot more difficult than piano recognition yet no software out there no matter the price is able to do polyphonic piano recognition correctly.
. . .
Guillaume


a) Why do you think speech recognition is easier?

b) Have you considered how much money has been spent developing speech-recognition software, because there's a huge market for it ?

An equal amount spent on "smart scoring" software might yield a good product. But the market for it would be tiny.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
Re: piano audio to midi EVERYONE FAILS ! [Re: hastoy] #2841321
04/22/19 12:42 AM
04/22/19 12:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 2,505
Dublin
johnstaf Offline
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johnstaf  Offline
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Dublin
One of the reasons for bass notes being difficult is that the pitch you are hearing might hardly be there at all, but your mind recreates it from the harmonics, which are out of tune anyway, and can be confused with those from different notes. Nothing about this is easy.

Re: piano audio to midi EVERYONE FAILS ! [Re: johnstaf] #2841329
04/22/19 01:30 AM
04/22/19 01:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373
Queensland, Australia
backto_study_piano Offline
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backto_study_piano  Offline
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Posts: 1,373
Queensland, Australia
Originally Posted by johnstaf
One of the reasons for bass notes being difficult is that the pitch you are hearing might hardly be there at all, but your mind recreates it from the harmonics, which are out of tune anyway, and can be confused with those from different notes. Nothing about this is easy.

Yes, that could be right - the harmonics on a piano, as with many instruments, the harmonics would make it more complex for a recognition program to interpret. Just thinking of a Pipe Organ - add the Tierce or a mixture, not sure what the program would think.


Alan from Queensland, Australia (and Clara - my Grotrian Concert & Allen Organ (CF-17a)).
Re: piano audio to midi EVERYONE FAILS ! [Re: Charles Cohen] #2841423
04/22/19 12:05 PM
04/22/19 12:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,136
Kitsap County, WA
Chrispy Offline
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Chrispy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2017
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Kitsap County, WA
Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

a) Why do you think speech recognition is easier?


I've done some work in speech recognition software and audio in general, and I would say that though I haven't tried it, I'd speculate that it is easier. There are far fewer variables to deal with and you're only needing to recognize pitch, not different sounds. And those pitches are in well defined ranges, unlike human voices that vary from speaker to speaker. That said, I wouldn't say it's trivial, there's a lot of factors to consider like dismissing background noise, dealing with frequency ranges and the fact that there are multiple strings likely slightly out of tune with each other. In fact, I'd guess that the problem is already "solved" in that Auto-tune is a thing and it definitely recognized pitches correctly from a variety of sources, and can pick out notes in a chord, but it's not specifically used to drive pitch to midi.

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

b) Have you considered how much money has been spent developing speech-recognition software, because there's a huge market for it ?


You probably hit the nail on the head here though. Since it's not a trivial problem, it's just likely that on one has really seen enough commercial value to develop it and no one has picked up it up as an open source initiative.

I suspect this would be a fairly straight forward machine learning problem if someone were motivated enough and came up with a good set of training data and had access to a few pianos.

Last edited by Chrispy; 04/22/19 12:05 PM.

𝒀𝒂𝒎𝒂𝒉𝒂 𝑨𝒗𝒂𝒏𝒕 𝑮𝒓𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝑵1𝑿
Re: piano audio to midi EVERYONE FAILS ! [Re: hastoy] #2841430
04/22/19 12:43 PM
04/22/19 12:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,675
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Gombessa Offline
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Gombessa  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 3,675


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