2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.9 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Petrof Pianos
Petrof Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Who's Online Now
42 members (blueviewlaguna., Bett, Bruce Sato, CharlesXX, Alan B, Beowulf, AZNpiano, 8 invisible), 395 guests, and 249 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
What to say when playing F major contrary?
#2841190 04/21/19 12:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,105
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,105
I have recently learned to play the scales of C, G, D and A major in both parallel and contrary motion, and I love playing them with my eyes closed.
When playing in parallel motion, to guide myself, I silently say the name of the notes - which in my case is easy, because I say them in Dutch, so instead of F-sharp or C-sharp, I say fis and cis: D E fis G A B cis etc
When playing in contrary motion, to guide myself, I silently say the number of the finger that plays: 1 2 3 1 2 3 4 etc.

But now I have started on F major. Parallel motion is easy enough; B-flat is bes in Dutch.
But what to say to myself when I play in contrary motion? It starts well enoug: 1 2 3, but how do I move on from there without getting confused?

Has anybody dealt with the same problem and what was your solution?


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
Animisha #2841191 04/21/19 01:08 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,016
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,016
Animisha:

As a learner, I never learned nor tried to say the notes that I was playing nor the number of the fingers that played those notes. It seems to me that that is a process that involves an extra step and thus slows down the learning curve. As you've already seen, you are going to run into a problem when each hand is playing a different note with a different finger. Why do you need to say the notes or finger numbers when you play?

I would simply make sure that I can play with total security each hand (right ascending, left descending) automatically, even for only one octave, hands separately, then, slowly put them together. Then do the reverse, right descending, left ascending). Once you have done one octave and can feel comfortable with that, then expand to more octaves.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
BruceD #2841206 04/21/19 02:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,105
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,105
Originally Posted by BruceD
Animisha:

I would simply make sure that I can play with total security each hand (right ascending, left descending) automatically, even for only one octave, hands separately, then, slowly put them together. Then do the reverse, right descending, left ascending). Once you have done one octave and can feel comfortable with that, then expand to more octaves.

Regards,


Thank you Bruce!
That works well enough with eyes open. cool
However, with my eyes closed I need some mnemonic (or attention device?), to prevent my mind from floating and all of a sudden finding my index finger on the tonic... whistle


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
Animisha #2841207 04/21/19 02:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 74
D
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
D
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 74
I can see the value of saying the note names it adds ear training aspect to your technique exercice. Helps with building that brain, ear, hand relationship. I don't see the value in naming fingers because fingerings changes with situations.

Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
Animisha #2841212 04/21/19 02:13 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,264
M
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,264
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by BruceD
Animisha:

I would simply make sure that I can play with total security each hand (right ascending, left descending) automatically, even for only one octave, hands separately, then, slowly put them together. Then do the reverse, right descending, left ascending). Once you have done one octave and can feel comfortable with that, then expand to more octaves.

Regards,


Thank you Bruce!
That works well enough with eyes open. cool
However, with my eyes closed I need some mnemonic (or attention device?), to prevent my mind from floating and all of a sudden finding my index finger on the tonic... whistle

Why is it important for you to do this with your eyes closed? I'm not sure there's value in this, especially for a beginner.

I agree with BruceD's comment about too much info with thinking note names or finger #s for each note. Instead, I think finger #s for only when there's a crossing over/under part.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
Morodiene #2841214 04/21/19 02:16 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,016
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,016
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by BruceD
Animisha:

I would simply make sure that I can play with total security each hand (right ascending, left descending) automatically, even for only one octave, hands separately, then, slowly put them together. Then do the reverse, right descending, left ascending). Once you have done one octave and can feel comfortable with that, then expand to more octaves.

Regards,


Thank you Bruce!
That works well enough with eyes open. cool
However, with my eyes closed I need some mnemonic (or attention device?), to prevent my mind from floating and all of a sudden finding my index finger on the tonic... whistle

Why is it important for you to do this with your eyes closed? I'm not sure there's value in this, especially for a beginner.

I agree with BruceD's comment about too much info with thinking note names or finger #s for each note. Instead, I think finger #s for only when there's a crossing over/under part.


I think it also helps to concentrate on where the thumb in each hand falls, even though it often is a different note in each hand; but that's often the signpost which the other fingers follow.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
Morodiene #2841227 04/21/19 02:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,105
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,105
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Why is it important for you to do this with your eyes closed? I'm not sure there's value in this, especially for a beginner.

I just love doing it so much. Maybe there is no pianistic value in this, but just to sit there, eyes closed, listening to the string of pearls that emanates from my piano, it is heavenly.


Playing the piano is learning to create, playfully and deeply seriously, our own music in the world.
*
... feeling like the pianist on the Titanic ...
Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
Animisha #2841229 04/21/19 02:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,830
5000 Post Club Member
Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,830
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by BruceD
Animisha:

I would simply make sure that I can play with total security each hand (right ascending, left descending) automatically, even for only one octave, hands separately, then, slowly put them together. Then do the reverse, right descending, left ascending). Once you have done one octave and can feel comfortable with that, then expand to more octaves.

Regards,


Thank you Bruce!
That works well enough with eyes open. cool
However, with my eyes closed I need some mnemonic (or attention device?), to prevent my mind from floating and all of a sudden finding my index finger on the tonic... whistle


Keep doing it eyes open with a quiet mind.


Learner
Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
BruceD #2841237 04/21/19 03:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,710
3000 Post Club Member
Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,710
Originally Posted by BruceD
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by BruceD
Animisha:

I would simply make sure that I can play with total security each hand (right ascending, left descending) automatically, even for only one octave, hands separately, then, slowly put them together. Then do the reverse, right descending, left ascending). Once you have done one octave and can feel comfortable with that, then expand to more octaves.

Regards,


Thank you Bruce!
That works well enough with eyes open. cool
However, with my eyes closed I need some mnemonic (or attention device?), to prevent my mind from floating and all of a sudden finding my index finger on the tonic... whistle

Why is it important for you to do this with your eyes closed? I'm not sure there's value in this, especially for a beginner.

I agree with BruceD's comment about too much info with thinking note names or finger #s for each note. Instead, I think finger #s for only when there's a crossing over/under part.


I think it also helps to concentrate on where the thumb in each hand falls, even though it often is a different note in each hand; but that's often the signpost which the other fingers follow.

Regards,


In the flat keys I concentrate on 3 and 4 - if I get those wrong I'm screwed. The flat keys are harder to do in contrary motion, in my opinion - except for Eb, which is easy.

Sam

Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
Animisha #2841278 04/21/19 08:03 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,016
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,016
Originally Posted by Sam S

In the flat keys I concentrate on 3 and 4 - if I get those wrong I'm screwed. The flat keys are harder to do in contrary motion, in my opinion - except for Eb, which is easy.

Sam


Sam:

This is a good point. I think, in the flat keys, that it may be more important to concentrate on where 3 and 4 fall than on where the thumb falls. I haven't done contrary scales in a while (What?!?), but trying them out, I'm inclined to agree that 3 and 4 are the key - pun intended! smile

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
Animisha #2841280 04/21/19 08:06 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,016
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Gold Subscriber
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 24,016
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Why is it important for you to do this with your eyes closed? I'm not sure there's value in this, especially for a beginner.

I just love doing it so much. Maybe there is no pianistic value in this, but just to sit there, eyes closed, listening to the string of pearls that emanates from my piano, it is heavenly.



If that's your preference - although I don't see any advantage to it unless you're planning a practice session when the lights go out! - you can certainly do it. If you do it slowly enough to start with, I think that closing your eyes may help you concentrate, not on your "string of pearls" but, rather, on where certain fingers must fall.

Regards,


BruceD
- - - - -
Estonia 190
Re: What to say when playing F major contrary?
Animisha #2841294 04/21/19 09:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,264
M
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,264
Originally Posted by Animisha
Originally Posted by Morodiene
Why is it important for you to do this with your eyes closed? I'm not sure there's value in this, especially for a beginner.

I just love doing it so much. Maybe there is no pianistic value in this, but just to sit there, eyes closed, listening to the string of pearls that emanates from my piano, it is heavenly.


I think that will come in time - once you can visualize the keys you are playing, or rather, the hand shape that you should have for each segment of a scale (black or white keys). Taking F major contrary, for example, you have 3 white keys descending in the LH in the first "segment" or hand position, and then the RH has four keys: 3 white and 1 black in its first segment. Then the next segment of the LH would be 1-2-3-4-5, white-black-white-white-white, and the RH would be 4 white keys in a row. The segments or hand positions do not line up with each other, so you would "shift" (cross under) to the next segment in the LH first on the 4th note, and then shift your attention to the RH segment on note 5.

For me, it's more tactile than thinking finger #s or note names. But first, you should learn to do it without worrying about not looking, then it will naturally transition to not looking when ti's easy.


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Moderated by  BB Player 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Where Did The Buttons Go?!
----------------------
Our April 2020 Newsletter Available Online Now...
The Piano World During the Pandemic!
----------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
New Topics - Multiple Forums
My Petrof III
by Emery Wang - 07/08/20 09:51 PM
Soft Cose Fallboard Adjusted
by Lady Bird - 07/08/20 09:28 PM
Pianoteq Display of Notes/Chords
by sfhombre - 07/08/20 07:35 PM
Rhythm Exercises with Metronome
by Charles Cohen - 07/08/20 06:55 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics200,125
Posts2,978,497
Members97,705
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4