Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.7 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Who's Online Now
76 registered members (ChatNoir, Animisha, ando, cfrederi, BigIslandGuy, AZNpiano, cliowa, 18 invisible), 1,103 guests, and 4 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
The wrist and how to keep it loose #2841020
04/20/19 05:33 PM
04/20/19 05:33 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 30
I
Ido Offline OP
Full Member
Ido  Offline OP
Full Member
I

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 30
Hi,

We all know that keeping that wrist loose is key in piano technique. The problem is that it is not so simple to do so, especially with the complex movements we need to do.

I was hoping to make this thread a place to share advice and tips about the mindset which is required for that (i.e. how should I be thinking of the wrist's role in playing) and for clarification about correct use of the wrist in general.

I know that words can be misleading and I do consult hands-on teacher(s), but sometimes online tips can clarify what the teacher meant, using different words.

To be more specific, I'll give my own experience and raise specific questions.

My conclusions so far (I've been playing for 2.4 years) are the following:
1. letting the hand rest on the keyboard helps
2. bringing the arm behind the hand helps.
3. keeping the weight off the hand/wrist during any time except key depression helps.

Still I find myself locking the wrist far too often, although it does get better with time.

And now for specific questions.
Let's say I want to play a chord. Now, weight has to be transferred somehow from the arm to the fingers. If the wrist is completely loose, all the weight will sink there and not reach the fingers. So there's got to be an exertion at the wrist for a brief moment.
The questions are:
1. how do you dissipate that exertion and return to the loose state, and how do you make this a one continuous motion?
2. after you bring the chord down, how do you keep it down with a free wrist? I have no problem keeping one and two notes down effortlessly, but with chord I find I have to leave some arm weight on the hand to keep it down and this automatically makes the wrist less free.

I've seen several opinions on this:
- my teacher said there should be no locking at any time and that the motion should not stop and any point. She advised to let the arm go forward and to push the hand and bring the chord down (a bit like pushing the piano)
Given that advice, I developed a habit of bringing chords down with a forward arm motion, and continuing the motion slightly towards the fall board, after the chord has been sounded (while removing the arm weight from the hand and letting the wrist rise), instead of simply stopping the motion. It's like the hand is rolling forward with the wrist as a hinge.
This way has no down-give in the wrist (though you can say it's a give upwards)

- I'm now consulting with another teacher, which says my wrists are too high and that I should play with my wrist lower than the knuckles, and also that I should let it sink a bit after sounding the note, rather than letting it rise. He also says that the motion should somehow continue. And when he plays I see no forward arm motion there.
This way has some give in the wrist.

Both ways seem valid but I'm not sure I fully grasped any of them.

- I've also seen someone here mention using the wrists as shock absorbers (Morodiene?) and it made me re-think of how we should use the wrist. I could use some elaboration.

Again, I know online explanation is very limited, but I'm still interested in your opinions (especially experienced players). Teachers can be very good and yet not fully analyze their own motions in a way that can be explained to problematic students like me smile

Thanks

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
Re: The wrist and how to keep it loose [Re: Ido] #2841027
04/20/19 05:55 PM
04/20/19 05:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 988
M
Moo :) Offline
500 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 988
I generally do not comment on these online thread discussions. I think we do have a lot or rubbish advice. I however was taught to play like this (without the band). My teacher spent a long time on this one.



I do not often land like this, however, in pieces. In fact when I learnt it I was told not to do it. Now only in a few circumstances. Like the first note in RH in Elegie. Most of the time I would have my hands on the keys. Some people play like me, like below, some do not. I'm not sure if its correct.



My teacher used to advise me not to have a high wrist but this stopped a couple of years ago. It was quite easy to fix. Are you sure you have a problem and not just over thinking it ? I think there is a lot of overthink on piano online. I dont remember myself thinking so much about it.

Re: The wrist and how to keep it loose [Re: Moo :)] #2841036
04/20/19 06:59 PM
04/20/19 06:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 39
n/a
stevechris Offline
Full Member
stevechris  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 39
n/a
Originally Posted by Moo :)
I generally do not comment on these online thread discussions. I think we do have a lot or rubbish advice. I however was taught to play like this (without the band). My teacher spent a long time on this one.



I do not often land like this, however, in pieces. In fact when I learnt it I was told not to do it. Now only in a few circumstances. Like the first note in RH in Elegie. Most of the time I would have my hands on the keys. Some people play like me, like below, some do not. I'm not sure if its correct.



My teacher used to advise me not to have a high wrist but this stopped a couple of years ago. It was quite easy to fix. Are you sure you have a problem and not just over thinking it ? I think there is a lot of overthink on piano online. I dont remember myself thinking so much about it.


I have only had 2 lessons so far so forgive my ignorance but it looks like she (#2 video) plays way between the black keys or way up high. Is this good technique?

Re: The wrist and how to keep it loose [Re: Ido] #2841038
04/20/19 07:22 PM
04/20/19 07:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 988
M
Moo :) Offline
500 Post Club Member
Moo :)  Offline
500 Post Club Member
M

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 988
I picked the video the video to show that you do not land with bodyweight landing very often. When I was taught to play Elegie I practiced landing but I misunderstood and started landing everywhere. In the end my teacher taught me to land only rarely. My teacher taught me to play similarly to what she is doing. I did not pick this example as an example for a technique to follow. I have seen many different examples of people playing and I think this technique is normally overthought about online. Perhaps I should not comment on these types of thread. I believe very strongly that this should be discussed with a teacher.

Last edited by Moo :); 04/20/19 07:24 PM.
Re: The wrist and how to keep it loose [Re: Ido] #2841092
04/21/19 03:34 AM
04/21/19 03:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 30
I
Ido Offline OP
Full Member
Ido  Offline OP
Full Member
I

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 30
Thanks. I'm actually familiar with this video.
The question was not about about how to use arm weight, and I'm not dropping the arm from any height - I play from the key surface.
Please see my questions above.

About overthinking it - well, I don't think about this stuff unless I feel there's a real problem. I wouldn't have wasted time on it if I thought there was nothing wrong with my motions.

Thanks again.

Re: The wrist and how to keep it loose [Re: Ido] #2841108
04/21/19 05:55 AM
04/21/19 05:55 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,361
London
C
chopin_r_us Offline
2000 Post Club Member
chopin_r_us  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
C

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,361
London

Re: The wrist and how to keep it loose [Re: Ido] #2841115
04/21/19 06:34 AM
04/21/19 06:34 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,040
Moscow, Russia
I
Iaroslav Vasiliev Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Iaroslav Vasiliev  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
I

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,040
Moscow, Russia
You understand the principle correctly. It is impossible to play with completely relaxed wrist (or completely relaxed fingers, or shoulder, or whatever). At the moment when fingers touch the keys the wrist starts to tense up and doesn't let itself sink significantly. Just remember that this exertion is not a complete and sudden locking of a joint, it's just a soft, gradually increasing resistence to the arm weight.

After the keybeds have been reached the arm weight is immediately put off (i.e. the forearm goes up) and the wrist immediately relaxes again. But if you need to hold down the chord for some time, a minimally sufficient part of the arm weight is not put off and therefore some very little tension in the wrist remains too. If it requires you too much tension in the wrist it's probably because you sit too low or too far from the piano.

Moving your wrist significantly towards the keyboard lid is unnecessary motion, don't do that.

Re: The wrist and how to keep it loose [Re: Iaroslav Vasiliev] #2841139
04/21/19 08:41 AM
04/21/19 08:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 30
I
Ido Offline OP
Full Member
Ido  Offline OP
Full Member
I

Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 30
Thanks Iaroslav, this is exactly the kind of explanation I was looking for.

Re: The wrist and how to keep it loose [Re: Ido] #2841165
04/21/19 10:34 AM
04/21/19 10:34 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,040
Moscow, Russia
I
Iaroslav Vasiliev Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Iaroslav Vasiliev  Offline
1000 Post Club Member
I

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,040
Moscow, Russia
Originally Posted by Ido
Thanks Iaroslav, this is exactly the kind of explanation I was looking for.

Glad to be of assistence!
Good luck to you!


Moderated by  BB Player 

Shop Our Online Store!
Shop Our Store Online
Shop PianoSupplies.com

Did you know Piano World has an online store, and that it's loaded with goodies pianists and music lovers want?
Check it out and place your order.

Special Purchase!
Keyboard and Roses Piano Bench Cushion Keyboard & Roses 14"x30" piano bench cushions Regularly sold for $79 to $100, now only $39. (while supplies last)

(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Bechstein
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Heintzman vs Yamaha
by Soojin. 05/19/19 10:14 PM
Yamaha Nu1x V2.10 software update
by Chantel. 05/19/19 08:34 PM
please tell me one of them I should buy
by China_Jack. 05/19/19 03:18 PM
Playing fast for adult returners
by KevinM. 05/19/19 12:52 PM
What's Hot!!
PIANO TEACHERS Please read this!
-------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics192,060
Posts2,829,524
Members93,362
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

Sweetwater

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2019 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2